Positive and Negative Energy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Positive and Negative Energy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chimera245
07-22-07, 02:48 AM In my game, I want Positive and Negative energy to take a role more like that of the four elements. (fire, water, earth, and air) so that wizards and scholars and such all refer to "the six elements".

I'm looking for suggestions on writing up things for positive and negative energy that the other four elements already have.

They've already got their own planes, and I've created gods that have dominion over them, like I have for the other four elements, but not much else.

I know I'm at least going to need Elementals, Genies, and Genasi Planetouched for Positive and Negative energy.

Anyone have any ideas for stats, or ideas where I can get inspiration? And does anyone know of anything else that the four elements all have that Positive and Negative energy typically do not, that I'll need to stat out?
Andyr
07-22-07, 08:10 AM You might be interested in the Planescape Inner Planes accessory, which includes a lot of detail on the elemental, quasielemental, paralemental and energy planes. :)

The energy planes have the Energons as resident creatures, which I see as kind of similar to elementals. If you wanted variant genies or planetouched, perhaps you could emphasise the effects of positive/negative energy on life? So positive-energy genies and genasi might have some restorative trait, or some attack which dazzles their foes. Negative-energh genies and genasi might benefit from abilities similar to feats from Libris Mortis, such as being harmed by Cure spells as undead are or being resistant to ability damage.

The elemental planes also all have the archomentals, so you might want good and evil archomentals of positive and negative energy, too.
RavinRay
07-22-07, 08:40 PM I've always felt that energons are sorely underutilized, and am miffed that aside from advancing in HD, there are nothing like Elder Energons, Energon Monoliths, etc. to match the diversity of elementals. So I'd like to see more energons; maybe you can write them up. Of course, if there's a 9th-level elemental swarm spell, there ought to be an energon swarm spell to (and I wrote one myself).

There's a humanoid-looking Positive Energy Plane race, the lumi, in MM3.
Chimera245
07-23-07, 04:07 AM What would the effect of "elemental mastery" be for positive or negative energy? I thought maybe Positive's bonus would apply when both you and your target are living creatures, but that would imply that the Positive elemental would ever be NOT a living creature. Not to mention that the vast majority of creatures are living... I also thought maybe it applies when you and your target are both in bright light, but a Positive Elemental would likely produce light itself, so there would never be a time when it didn't apply... And I'm drawing a complete blank for Negative elemental mastery...

I also need good names for the Genies. Does anyone know the origin of the names Efreet, Djinn, Marid, and Dao? Maybe I can dig something up there that could work for positive or negative Genies...
RavinRay
07-23-07, 06:11 AM The cold genie in Frostburn is called qorrashi, and the shadow genie from Tome of Magic is called khayal.

If you're willing to use them (lots of people don't), the deathless type (Book of Exalted Deeds and Eberron Campaign Setting) is in many ways the mirror image of the undead type; it is healed by positive energy and harmed by negative energy. In your game, you can populate the Positive Energy Plane with good and neutral deathless, and the Negative Energy Plane with evil and neutral undead.

Get a copy of Dragon #313 (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/issues/2003/313). It has a great article about half-undead and deathtouched, the latter analogous to planetouched. Mortif (the deathtouched race) are not affected by negative energy as written, but that can be easily modified.
hazhar
07-23-07, 08:16 AM I also need good names for the Genies. Does anyone know the origin of the names Efreet, Djinn, Marid, and Dao? Maybe I can dig something up there that could work for positive or negative Genies...

Djinn is the original Arabic root for the word "genie", and Efreet, Marid, and Dao are all different types of Djinn. Other Djinn include the Ghul (origin of the english word ghoul), and the shape-shifting Sila. According to some intepretations, Shaytan/Satan was also a Djinn, not an angel.
ArcTan
07-23-07, 07:22 PM "Malak" and "Ghul" (Arabic for "Angel" and "Demon") would be good names for the PE and NE Genies, although it steps on the actual Angels and Demons of D&D mythology, as well as the Undead monster called a "Ghoul".
Chimera245
07-24-07, 03:26 AM Ooh, I really LIKE that. Different and obscure enough that no one is likely to actually make a connection to "Angels" and "demons", yet closely related enough to be intellectually symmetrical to the other genie types.

What are good spell-like abilities to stick onto Positive/Negative Genasi? CLW, and ILW, as a 5th level Cleric just seems lacking in imagination compared to the other abilities...

And they need better names. I'm thinking of Light and Darkness or Light and Shadow or something... "Positive Energy" just doesn't have the same ring as "Fire" or "Earth"...
Andorxor
07-24-07, 03:43 AM Here are some names:
Life and Death
Creation and Decay
Anima and Mortis
Origin and End
hazhar
07-24-07, 07:21 AM entropy (negative energy) and extropy (positive energy).
Andyr
07-24-07, 01:26 PM (In the real world at least,) entropy isn't related to negative energy.
420
07-24-07, 01:44 PM (In the real world at least,) entropy isn't related to negative energy.

Probably has something to do with the fact that "negative energy" and "positive energy" don't exist in the real world.

-420
hazhar
07-24-07, 02:36 PM entropy isn't related to negative energy.

My associating them was based on the fact that the Doomguard faction in Planescape, who follow a philosophy devoted to entropy, refer to the plane as "the ultimate Destroyer", and maintain citadels around it's borders. And if negative energy is entropy, I figured positive energy was "extropy". :P
ArcTan
07-27-07, 03:17 AM Negative energy is explicitly referred to as entropy in various sources. Libris Mortis even calls the animation of Undead "entropic animancy" as a pseudo-scientific term.

(There are a lot of opposites for the word "entropy", by the way -- "extropy" is a kind of airy-fairy unscientific one. You sound more credible if you say "negentropy" or "syntropy".)
Chimera245
07-28-07, 02:12 AM I thought the opposite of "entropy" was "energy"...
420
07-28-07, 02:40 PM I thought the opposite of "entropy" was "energy"...

Remember, matter and energy are the same thing and matter can not be created or destroyed. So there is no real "opposite" to energy unless you count matter and energy as opposite sides of the same coin.

Here is the Merriam-Webster (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entropy) definition:

entropy
1: a measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder, that is a property of the system's state, and that varies directly with any reversible change in heat in the system and inversely with the temperature of the system; broadly : the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system

By this definition I'd guess that the opposite of entropy would be Mechanus.

-420
hazhar
07-28-07, 03:24 PM (There are a lot of opposites for the word "entropy", by the way -- "extropy" is a kind of airy-fairy unscientific one.

Good thing this isn't science we're discussing then ;)
ArcTan
07-28-07, 04:42 PM I thought the opposite of "entropy" was "energy"...

Well, you can call the opposite of entropy -- or "negentropy" -- "free energy". Since free energy is, by definition, energy not yet made unavailable through entropy.

However, entropy is *not* the opposite of "energy", period. Free energy that's no longer free is simply non-free energy -- unavailable energy. It doesn't disappear or become not energy anymore (First Law of Thermodynamics).
ArcTan
07-28-07, 04:43 PM By this definition I'd guess that the opposite of entropy would be Mechanus.
-420

"Disorder" is a weird word to use, and doesn't have much to do with Law-vs-Chaos in D&D terms.

For example, a very hot boiling mixture of water and sugar that then cools into a perfectly shaped sugar crystal has increased its entropy, but -- in the layman's sense -- also become more "orderly" in appearance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chimera245 07-22-07, 02:48 AM	In my game, I want Positive and Negative energy to take a role more like that of the four elements. (fire, water, earth, and air) so that wizards and scholars and such all refer to "the six elements". I'm looking for suggestions on writing up things for positive and negative energy that the other four elements already have. They've already got their own planes, and I've created gods that have dominion over them, like I have for the other four elements, but not much else. I know I'm at least going to need Elementals, Genies, and Genasi Planetouched for Positive and Negative energy. Anyone have any ideas for stats, or ideas where I can get inspiration? And does anyone know of anything else that the four elements all have that Positive and Negative energy typically do not, that I'll need to stat out?
Andyr 07-22-07, 08:10 AM	You might be interested in the Planescape Inner Planes accessory, which includes a lot of detail on the elemental, quasielemental, paralemental and energy planes. :) The energy planes have the Energons as resident creatures, which I see as kind of similar to elementals. If you wanted variant genies or planetouched, perhaps you could emphasise the effects of positive/negative energy on life? So positive-energy genies and genasi might have some restorative trait, or some attack which dazzles their foes. Negative-energh genies and genasi might benefit from abilities similar to feats from Libris Mortis, such as being harmed by Cure spells as undead are or being resistant to ability damage. The elemental planes also all have the archomentals, so you might want good and evil archomentals of positive and negative energy, too.
RavinRay 07-22-07, 08:40 PM	I've always felt that energons are sorely underutilized, and am miffed that aside from advancing in HD, there are nothing like Elder Energons, Energon Monoliths, etc. to match the diversity of elementals. So I'd like to see more energons; maybe you can write them up. Of course, if there's a 9th-level elemental swarm spell, there ought to be an energon swarm spell to (and I wrote one myself). There's a humanoid-looking Positive Energy Plane race, the lumi, in MM3.
Chimera245 07-23-07, 04:07 AM	What would the effect of "elemental mastery" be for positive or negative energy? I thought maybe Positive's bonus would apply when both you and your target are living creatures, but that would imply that the Positive elemental would ever be NOT a living creature. Not to mention that the vast majority of creatures are living... I also thought maybe it applies when you and your target are both in bright light, but a Positive Elemental would likely produce light itself, so there would never be a time when it didn't apply... And I'm drawing a complete blank for Negative elemental mastery... I also need good names for the Genies. Does anyone know the origin of the names Efreet, Djinn, Marid, and Dao? Maybe I can dig something up there that could work for positive or negative Genies...
RavinRay 07-23-07, 06:11 AM	The cold genie in Frostburn is called qorrashi, and the shadow genie from Tome of Magic is called khayal. If you're willing to use them (lots of people don't), the deathless type (Book of Exalted Deeds and Eberron Campaign Setting) is in many ways the mirror image of the undead type; it is healed by positive energy and harmed by negative energy. In your game, you can populate the Positive Energy Plane with good and neutral deathless, and the Negative Energy Plane with evil and neutral undead. Get a copy of Dragon #313 (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/issues/2003/313). It has a great article about half-undead and deathtouched, the latter analogous to planetouched. Mortif (the deathtouched race) are not affected by negative energy as written, but that can be easily modified.
hazhar 07-23-07, 08:16 AM	I also need good names for the Genies. Does anyone know the origin of the names Efreet, Djinn, Marid, and Dao? Maybe I can dig something up there that could work for positive or negative Genies... Djinn is the original Arabic root for the word "genie", and Efreet, Marid, and Dao are all different types of Djinn. Other Djinn include the Ghul (origin of the english word ghoul), and the shape-shifting Sila. According to some intepretations, Shaytan/Satan was also a Djinn, not an angel.
ArcTan 07-23-07, 07:22 PM	"Malak" and "Ghul" (Arabic for "Angel" and "Demon") would be good names for the PE and NE Genies, although it steps on the actual Angels and Demons of D&D mythology, as well as the Undead monster called a "Ghoul".
Chimera245 07-24-07, 03:26 AM	Ooh, I really LIKE that. Different and obscure enough that no one is likely to actually make a connection to "Angels" and "demons", yet closely related enough to be intellectually symmetrical to the other genie types. What are good spell-like abilities to stick onto Positive/Negative Genasi? CLW, and ILW, as a 5th level Cleric just seems lacking in imagination compared to the other abilities... And they need better names. I'm thinking of Light and Darkness or Light and Shadow or something... "Positive Energy" just doesn't have the same ring as "Fire" or "Earth"...
Andorxor 07-24-07, 03:43 AM	Here are some names: Life and Death Creation and Decay Anima and Mortis Origin and End
hazhar 07-24-07, 07:21 AM	entropy (negative energy) and extropy (positive energy).
Andyr 07-24-07, 01:26 PM	(In the real world at least,) entropy isn't related to negative energy.
420 07-24-07, 01:44 PM	(In the real world at least,) entropy isn't related to negative energy. Probably has something to do with the fact that "negative energy" and "positive energy" don't exist in the real world. -420
hazhar 07-24-07, 02:36 PM	entropy isn't related to negative energy. My associating them was based on the fact that the Doomguard faction in Planescape, who follow a philosophy devoted to entropy, refer to the plane as "the ultimate Destroyer", and maintain citadels around it's borders. And if negative energy is entropy, I figured positive energy was "extropy". :P
ArcTan 07-27-07, 03:17 AM	Negative energy is explicitly referred to as entropy in various sources. Libris Mortis even calls the animation of Undead "entropic animancy" as a pseudo-scientific term. (There are a lot of opposites for the word "entropy", by the way -- "extropy" is a kind of airy-fairy unscientific one. You sound more credible if you say "negentropy" or "syntropy".)
Chimera245 07-28-07, 02:12 AM	I thought the opposite of "entropy" was "energy"...
420 07-28-07, 02:40 PM	I thought the opposite of "entropy" was "energy"... Remember, matter and energy are the same thing and matter can not be created or destroyed. So there is no real "opposite" to energy unless you count matter and energy as opposite sides of the same coin. Here is the Merriam-Webster (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entropy) definition: entropy 1: a measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder, that is a property of the system's state, and that varies directly with any reversible change in heat in the system and inversely with the temperature of the system; broadly : the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system By this definition I'd guess that the opposite of entropy would be Mechanus. -420
hazhar 07-28-07, 03:24 PM	(There are a lot of opposites for the word "entropy", by the way -- "extropy" is a kind of airy-fairy unscientific one. Good thing this isn't science we're discussing then ;)
ArcTan 07-28-07, 04:42 PM	I thought the opposite of "entropy" was "energy"... Well, you can call the opposite of entropy -- or "negentropy" -- "free energy". Since free energy is, by definition, energy not yet made unavailable through entropy. However, entropy is not the opposite of "energy", period. Free energy that's no longer free is simply non-free energy -- unavailable energy. It doesn't disappear or become not energy anymore (First Law of Thermodynamics).
ArcTan 07-28-07, 04:43 PM	By this definition I'd guess that the opposite of entropy would be Mechanus. -420 "Disorder" is a weird word to use, and doesn't have much to do with Law-vs-Chaos in D&D terms. For example, a very hot boiling mixture of water and sugar that then cools into a perfectly shaped sugar crystal has increased its entropy, but -- in the layman's sense -- also become more "orderly" in appearance.