Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zalakhiel 03-18-07, 06:21 PM	In fact, I am interested in knowing some of your ideas about how a lvl 50 character can attain DvR 0. Except of the obvious "Kill another God", I would like to see other ways of doing so. For example, would a Divine Emissary of Heironeous be rewarded with DvR 0 for rescuing his daughter from the Nine Hells of Baator?
Derren S. 03-18-07, 06:34 PM	Sounds good. Generally the players become deities when the DM wants it. The only official way is through the Dragon Ascendant PRC which is not normally something players can take.
Angelflesh 03-18-07, 06:43 PM	Get enough people to believe you are a god or demigod and worship you.
Janusunaj 03-18-07, 07:22 PM	Artifact + worship + monumental deed = DvR 6 in my games.
Angelflesh 03-18-07, 07:43 PM	DvR 6 seems a bit extreme. How do you become a Quasi-deity or Demigod?
Janusunaj 03-19-07, 02:46 AM	Extreme devotion to a portfolio.
Segan 03-19-07, 04:22 AM	How about the PC defeating a god and gaining it's divine rank? If a god is immortal, then it doesn't matter how much below 0 hp he would be, it would come back after he restored his hp. Example: PC X defeats God Y, by dropping the hp of Y to 0 or below. Since God Y is immortal, negative hp does not mean death, but disability. God Y will come back as soon as his hp are restored up to 1 hp and more. But since PC X technically defeated God Y, it gains the divine rank equal to the beaten God. And you might chose whatever portfolio you want to have. That's what I would do in my campaign...
Zalakhiel 03-19-07, 04:53 AM	How about something "Grand", something so extraordinary that even epic mortals gape at the difficulty of such a near-impossible task? (By the way, in my campaign I allow characters to reach up to lvl 50 as mortals, so feel free to say anything that has a CR up to 55.)
Segan 03-19-07, 08:43 AM	How about something "Grand", something so extraordinary that even epic mortals gape at the difficulty of such a near-impossible task? (By the way, in my campaign I allow characters to reach up to lvl 50 as mortals, so feel free to say anything that has a CR up to 55.) Uhm...maybe a dozen or more great wyrm red dragons with advanced HD...?
Angelflesh 03-19-07, 09:50 PM	1. A god grants you deific status. 2. Kill a god and assume his deific status. 3. Be worshiped as a deity long enough and by enough people. 4. Become so powerful that you ascend to deific status. 5. Perform a monumentally good act (kill an archfiend or two). 6. Perform a monumentally evil act (kill a celestial paragon or two). 7. Find a way to gain leverage against a god and force him/her to grant you deific status. Those are some possible ways i thought of off the top of my head. Oh yeah... 8. Find an artifact that grants deific status.
Thegans 03-19-07, 10:42 PM	Some ideas 1. Multiple uses of the wish spell. 2. Bluff a diety into giving you some of its domains. 3. Get a large ammoung of outsiders to give you their power using diplomacy. 4. Take over the world and maintain absolute control of it till death or 100 years. Whatever comes first. 5. Offer souls trapped using Trap the Soul and Soul Bind to the highest bidder. (Sure you might not get a divine rank right away but after 100 or so souls sold to Asmodeous or Demogorgan or any other evil outsider and your bound to have eternal life and more power than you normally would have. That should be a easy step to becoming a god of evil.) 6. Find a way to absorb the powers of the Tarrasque. 7. Study the planes to learn how petitioners are transformed. Create a magic item containg gems that hold the souls of those trapped by trap the soul and soul bind. Design the items so that the souls in it absorb the essence of the alignment of the plane and that the power it absorbs can be absorbed using a special word or phrase. Leave the item in one of the evil or neurtal aligned planes. Once the item is sufficently saturated with the energy of the plane gather it back and use the designated word or phrase to absorb essence in the item. 8. End the Blood War by killing or gaining the loyalty of the most powerful beings on each side.
Khael 03-20-07, 09:39 AM	Some ideas 1. Multiple uses of the wish spell. And at this ponit you will be the god of stone. Of course being the god of stone you will be a stone. AS in the non-active rocky things that don't move much. Remember 5 wishes grants a +5 to a stat. DvR... that needs so many wishes cast together you probably have so many epic followers you are a DvR 0 god. Period. 2. Bluff a diety into giving you some of its domains. Domains, are not a full mark of godlyness. Clercs gets domains... Also gods are immune to mind control so that kind of fanatic dovotion is... unlikely. 3. Get a large ammoung of outsiders to give you their power using diplomacy. You realsie how many outsiders you'd need? And they can't give you their power per se, at most they'll possess you somewhat. See also #1 4. Take over the world and maintain absolute control of it till death or 100 years. Whatever comes first. No, not whichever. Both. But since the gods likely got pee'd off and squashed you by then, whether by divine intervention, or fantasy intervention i.e. the prince cast out of his rightful landX26. And one of those is usually overkill. 5. Offer souls trapped using Trap the Soul and Soul Bind to the highest bidder. (Sure you might not get a divine rank right away but after 100 or so souls sold to Asmodeous or Demogorgan or any other evil outsider and your bound to have eternal life and more power than you normally would have. That should be a easy step to becoming a god of evil.) Rightttt.... You know each of those millions of demons/devils? Each of many of those was a soul. In other words if you had that many soul (millions) to sell, see #1 6. Find a way to absorb the powers of the Tarrasque. The tarrasque? The one regularly known to get screwed over by pre epic level characters? 7. Study the planes to learn how petitioners are transformed. Create a magic item containg gems that hold the souls of those trapped by trap the soul and soul bind. Design the items so that the souls in it absorb the essence of the alignment of the plane and that the power it absorbs can be absorbed using a special word or phrase. Leave the item in one of the evil or neurtal aligned planes. Once the item is sufficently saturated with the energy of the plane gather it back and use the designated word or phrase to absorb essence in the item. Watch as Demogorgon and the demon collective smash it up and daube the words "This is what we think of demarcation, see you in two seconds... As the baubau assassin who sneaked in deals its death attack. 8. End the Blood War by killing or gaining the loyalty of the most powerful beings on each side. This... This would work. But see #1 But add, you are an overgod. period. (The gods once tried to stop the blood war. As in several lesser-greater gods. They were defeated and hurled out)
oracle71 03-20-07, 03:31 PM	The original D&D Immortals Set had rules for PCs attaining divinity (what they called achieving Immortality). Basically, it boiled down to: 1 PC's at epic levels start to investigate how to ascend. 2 A PC petitions the Immortal to accept his candidacy. This must be done in one specific location after he has shown that he is worthy of consideration. 3 After the Immortal accepts the petition, the PC must undertake a series of epic quests, involving finding artifacts, founding new nations, creating new legendary magic items, etc. They usually require the PC to do something "impossible" also, thereby testing the PCs power, determination, and creativity. After all of the quests have been completed, the PC is given some time to wrap up their mortal affairs, and then they "die," their soul forms a new immortal body, and they become an Initiate Immortal, or Demigod.
Witch 03-20-07, 03:36 PM	Some ideas 1. Multiple uses of the wish spell. 2. Bluff a diety into giving you some of its domains. 3. Get a large ammoung of outsiders to give you their power using diplomacy. 4. Take over the world and maintain absolute control of it till death or 100 years. Whatever comes first. 5. Offer souls trapped using Trap the Soul and Soul Bind to the highest bidder. (Sure you might not get a divine rank right away but after 100 or so souls sold to Asmodeous or Demogorgan or any other evil outsider and your bound to have eternal life and more power than you normally would have. That should be a easy step to becoming a god of evil.) 6. Find a way to absorb the powers of the Tarrasque. 7. Study the planes to learn how petitioners are transformed. Create a magic item containg gems that hold the souls of those trapped by trap the soul and soul bind. Design the items so that the souls in it absorb the essence of the alignment of the plane and that the power it absorbs can be absorbed using a special word or phrase. Leave the item in one of the evil or neurtal aligned planes. Once the item is sufficently saturated with the energy of the plane gather it back and use the designated word or phrase to absorb essence in the item. 8. End the Blood War by killing or gaining the loyalty of the most powerful beings on each side. 1. No. 2. How is it giving you them? At best he'll make you a proxy. 3. How are they giving you their power? 4. That gets your soul in Baator. It doesn't make you a deity. 5. See #4. 6. How does this make you a god? 7. Such an item is likely impossible. 8. In short, you want to kill divine beings who'll kill or dominate you before you have the chance to say "wuh?".
freeholder 03-20-07, 09:26 PM	Ask to DM the next campaign.
Melpomene 03-20-07, 09:45 PM	1.) Be born a god. 2.) Attain massive power, invest it wisely, wait for it to accumulate, reinvest, keep it safe, tend to it constantly, and maybe before something kills you you can get there. 3.) Steal it.
Praedoran 03-21-07, 11:46 AM	Get enough people to believe you are a god or demigod and worship you. Aye, but this requires a lot of people and a specialized ritual as well. Look at Tome of Magic, there's a vestige who was killed at the cusp of his ascension. He was the God King of his time, nearly obtaining divinity by the number of worshipers he had attained.
alchemyprime 03-21-07, 08:00 PM	Some ways I'd like to see more of: Using a deities portfolio against them. If you manage to trick the god of shapechangers to change you into him, I'd say that would work. Off a few deities. Not the players, but someone else. The deities need to be replaced, and so a grand tournament is held. Absorb the power of a plane. Crazy, but it just might work. Find Tanner. He's our deity of evolution. He tends to gift genetic "gifts" to people. He's odd like that.
crimsonwolf 03-21-07, 08:08 PM	I would like to make referce to illumians final utterance ablity.. which made up most of the current demi god patheon of them
Angelflesh 03-22-07, 02:42 AM	Aye, but this requires a lot of people and a specialized ritual as well. Look at Tome of Magic, there's a vestige who was killed at the cusp of his ascension. He was the God King of his time, nearly obtaining divinity by the number of worshipers he had attained. 1. That's why i said get enough people. 2. Just because one mortal got f-ed over doesn't mean they all will. That's like saying because the wind is blowing in from the west it always has. That example of attaining deific status i provided is completely possible, one example of the process going horribly wrong is not nearly enough evidence to rule it out as a perfectly good means of ascension.
Khael 03-22-07, 03:11 PM	Some ways I'd like to see more of: Using a deities portfolio against them. If you manage to trick the god of shapechangers to change you into him, I'd say that would work. If he changed you into him, he would still be him, and so while you deal with the sudden power surge, he'd change you back... and since you're him you get no special protection from him playing with you like that, HE can after shapechange HIMself at will, right? And you'd be him. Off a few deities. Not the players, but someone else. The deities need to be replaced, and so a grand tournament is held. In which case, who/whatever killed those deities would be in their places. If they didn't receive that pwoer, then clearly one of the gods already knows who'll ascend, will have them pre-picked, and probably did the killing himself. (The general belief is I believe, you get at least minor godhood if you can kill a god. If you were a god to begin with? You get more work) Absorb the power of a plane. Crazy, but it just might work. "Hardly, Asmodeus has the power of hell (One question i've always had there is this: Does he simply rule the ninth, or does he get hell and just leases it out to the other eight? Gonna be a reason the ninth is so coveted...), but is either the equal of a god, or weaker. And he's a several thousand(hundreds of thousands?) year outsider to boot. Find Tanner. He's our deity of evolution. He tends to gift genetic "gifts" to people. He's odd like that. Question is there... Is godhood genetic, or something passed down because gods like to inflict their offspring on generations to come... And I've with Angelflesh on this: Look at Vecna, even after death the presence of enough belief helped to return to 'life' even after his destruction. It only took him several (hundred?) years of being dead to return by that.
Kursk 03-22-07, 03:17 PM	In fact, I am interested in knowing some of your ideas about how a lvl 50 character can attain DvR 0. Except of the obvious "Kill another God", I would like to see other ways of doing so. For example, would a Divine Emissary of Heironeous be rewarded with DvR 0 for rescuing his daughter from the Nine Hells of Baator? It's 100% up to your DM. As it is totally campaign specific there's no way I could guide you as it is not a rule.
crimsonwolf 03-22-07, 08:18 PM	kill the dm and hold eveyone up at gun point ... your now the over deity of the entire place :D
Mecha_Pope 03-23-07, 12:37 AM	It's the prize at the bottom of a box of craker jacks.
Praedoran 03-23-07, 09:29 AM	1. That's why i said get enough people. 2. Just because one mortal got f-ed over doesn't mean they all will. That's like saying because the wind is blowing in from the west it always has. That example of attaining deific status i provided is completely possible, one example of the process going horribly wrong is not nearly enough evidence to rule it out as a perfectly good means of ascension. I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was merely elaborating on your suggestion, because well, you were a little vague. There have been plenty of god kings throughout DnD history, but I was suggesting that it takes more work than just enough people believing you are one. Even Devils aren't immortal yet, but may have an exhausting count of cultists worshipping them. They can grant Divine Spells, but they remain "mortal" by our standards.
The_Shaman 03-23-07, 10:34 AM	An epic character who lives and dies exemplifying devotion to something not 100% covered by a particular deity has a chance of being sponsored by their patron deity. Likewise, several truly epic acts at lvl 35/40 + may result in your deity starting to get quite interested. At the least, you have a chance of being turned into / reincarnated as a massive outsider, and then go through the mill. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know.
Reign_of_Ice 03-24-07, 03:59 AM	You should just talk to the head of a church and see about a way of contacting a god you worship, and becoming his or her proxy. Thus automatically gaining DvR 1. That's my advice.
SeptimusMagistos 03-24-07, 01:53 PM	Become a saint of a god and serve him/her well, and hope that there is room for advancement.
Angelflesh 03-24-07, 02:07 PM	If Pelor wanted Vecna dead, he would have made it happen already. Pelor wont help you.
Nathreet 03-24-07, 03:20 PM	How about the PC defeating a god and gaining it's divine rank? If a god is immortal, then it doesn't matter how much below 0 hp he would be, it would come back after he restored his hp. Example: PC X defeats God Y, by dropping the hp of Y to 0 or below. Since God Y is immortal, negative hp does not mean death, but disability. God Y will come back as soon as his hp are restored up to 1 hp and more. But since PC X technically defeated God Y, it gains the divine rank equal to the beaten God. And you might chose whatever portfolio you want to have. That's what I would do in my campaign... PC X obtains goodhood. PC X lets party members PC A, PC B and PC C kill him. Entire party obtains godhood. By petition: doesn't fit so well with evil gods. Demigods or minions, maybe, but not the rest I'd go with extreme magic ritual, involving the sacrifice of an epic level nymph druid during an astral event that comes once every thousand years (and lasts 10 minutes), where the sacrficial dagger is a greater artifact that is either long forgotten or in the possession of some powerful being. Or something like that. There could be more than 1 method. Otherwise you might as well throw an elixer of diety-hood into the random treasure pile.
Treymordin 03-25-07, 10:57 AM	Why would you want to become a god in the first place?
Derren S. 03-25-07, 03:45 PM	Ultimate (for a mortal) power and immortality are two very good reasons.
Khael 03-25-07, 03:55 PM	Ultimate (for a mortal) power and immortality are two very good reasons. Agreed. It is one of the few ways in D&D to achieve true immortality, and is one of even less that do so with no apparent drawbacks (i.e. elans give up their humanity, and sometimes much of their pasts, in addition to losing their old power, for example.). Godhood grants you eternal life, great power no mortal could hope for otherwise, etc. And you lose? That's why. On the surface you lose little (Of course there is always the other costs - the fact your old friends/family will grow old and die, the fact now you for all your power still can't affect much beyond what you could before (A new-ascented paladin, will likely be at least a little peeved to discover for all his sacrifice, all his piety, etc. he still can't stop evill warring between ITself, let alone face it as a whole.) and so forth).
Voran 03-25-07, 08:25 PM	Seriously tho, post 40 Epic level, shouldn't you already be almost godlike in abilities? You may not be able to permanently kill a DvR 0 immortal, but you would already be able to beat down most of their avatars. Being level 50+ would make this more so. As a party, I could see the best bet being allying yourself with a particular god who will set it up to allow your group to kill another god and split his portfolio. Maybe a plot of some sort, where your sponsor is actually a lower DvR than your target, but will ascend to control of the Pantheon when that target is destroyed. To him, having a party of lower new DvR chars is preferable to having 1 high DvR sitting above him. Or given the way DvRs seem to work, maybe the sponsor is equal rating, and just doesn't wanna share control anymore. He'll acquire some of the fallen's portfolio, raising his own DvR by 1 or 2, with the end result of the party getting DvR 0-3 or so.
Patrick Draken-Korin 03-25-07, 11:48 PM	If Immortality is the goal, then just seek that. That there are so few methods for gaining true agelessness, if that's the problem, deal with it directly. If you want power that's another thing. What makes a god? If belief is the key (or even one of many), then a sufficient number of worshipers might handle it, though there are a few problems. - How many? Probably millions (which means you have to organize their worship or find some high-priest to do so. And that worked so well for Crypto). Tens of thousands over centuries might work, but then again, maybe not. - Ritual activation? Maybe some cumulation ceremony where 10,000 of you most fanatical devote some action to your (hopeful) divinity, as applicable to your claimed/desired portfolio. Interruptions may be hazardous to your presence within reality. - Portfolio territory? Claiming to be a divine power and gathering worshipers for a specific portfolio, when it's already occupied might either cause that divine entity to take offense, or worse, you might just be channeling energy to the current deity (or maybe not so bad; let's you become DvR 0, and it's servant?). - Generation vs. Focus. Would you, the focus of the worship, become the new deity, or would you spontaneous create a deity based on the idea your followers have of you? Be careful you don't create a deity that feels no gratitude. Killing a deity? May not always work; Check with the overgod first. What, you aren't on speaking terms? - How did you "kill" the deity? Was it sufficiently permanent? - Do you get the power? Or does it go to a general reservoir which the overgod draws from? If there's no overgod, how is this reservoir drawn from (belief, ritual, artifacts, planar affinity)? - How many seek to become a god by this method? Will you face challengers or angry deities ready to take apart this upstart who would be god? - When is the last time a deity Died? Actually Died. Witnesses? You might want to look into it. Artifacts? Usually not, or else they are held by the deities which have risen due to them. Have fun. - Artifact weapon to kill a god? A whole other can of worms. - Artifact that channels belief? Yet more worms. - Are you sure the artifact won't wake some other god? Or give you over to one? Rituals are fun. Make too much of a mistake and either ka-boom, massive devastation, or ka-fwhep, you don't exist. - What's the warranty on this ritual? Testing and authenticity? - Sacrifices & offerings? If it sound too easy to accomplish... - Timing... It's everything (at the very least, don't attempt to rise as a god while on a flying city). Planar/planetary alignments, My advice? What you really need to become a god/ess is research. Say, at least 100 years devoted to research, more if possible. What, you say you won't live that long? Suck it up. There are several methods to gain more years (aside from undeath), and if you can't put time off, why do you think you can become a deity? Of course if you can find someone else to do the research for you...
Khael 03-26-07, 04:34 AM	Seriously tho, post 40 Epic level, shouldn't you already be almost godlike in abilities? You may not be able to permanently kill a DvR 0 immortal, but you would already be able to beat down most of their avatars. Being level 50+ would make this more so. Level 50 does not let you beat a god. It simply means you MIGHT survive. Imagine a being who literally by the rules can point at you and declare 'you're dead'. Or can imitate any spell and metamagic it. Who can sense you coming from miles away. This is a god. And that is why some characters tend to want to be one. As a party, I could see the best bet being allying yourself with a particular god who will set it up to allow your group to kill another god and split his portfolio. Maybe a plot of some sort, where your sponsor is actually a lower DvR than your target, but will ascend to control of the Pantheon when that target is destroyed. To him, having a party of lower new DvR chars is preferable to having 1 high DvR sitting above him. Or given the way DvRs seem to work, maybe the sponsor is equal rating, and just doesn't wanna share control anymore. He'll acquire some of the fallen's portfolio, raising his own DvR by 1 or 2, with the end result of the party getting DvR 0-3 or so. The problem here is still killing the higher god, since many of a gods powers are affected by DvR which most of the more powerful being nulled against a higher DvR.
Yakman 03-26-07, 12:31 PM	the old fashioned way: You pray to your God and then you kill your God.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-26-07, 06:05 PM	There are only two ways - mechanically speaking - to obtain god-hood. The one is Dragon Ascendant, already mentioned, in Draconomicon. Be a dragon-ish race , get BAB +30 , the other requirements aren't that tough. I started working on a cheesy speedy way of doing it with Dragon #349 content. I figured Dragon mag was OK for Dragons ... ;) ---> link Divine Rank 0 , for all intents and purposes The other is with Ice Assassin spell. Its on the Campaign Smashers thread on the Theoretical Optimization board. Bottom right of this page, click the arrow. Quite complicated, but Divine Rank 1 (or more).
Angelflesh 03-26-07, 06:45 PM	Be a dragon-ish race Being a True Dragon is one of the entry requirements.
jadehawk 03-27-07, 03:38 PM	I put quite some thought into this as I have had some decent leveled (between 20 and 30) characters who were considering this jump. I wanted it to be as balanced as I could reasonably make it, which meant I wanted it at some sort of sacrifice. I came to the decision that I would build an epic prestige class that grants you Divine Rank 0. When I worked it out, it turned into a 20 level prestige class where all the special abilities were basically the benefits of having Divine Rank 0, staggered through the levels. I have the file at home I could present later, but the basis was as prerequisites Epic Base Attack Bonus +11 I think and some ability that would limit aging effects. I included the monk ability as an optional prerequisite and also listed an epic feat that character could take to fit the prerequisite as well.
SeptimusMagistos 03-27-07, 05:28 PM	Sell your soul to a fiend for power. Go up a few levels. Summon the fiend and make him give your soul back. Repeat process with stronger fiend. If word doesn't get around you're doing this, you might be able to become a god in time.
Rogue Shadows 03-28-07, 10:07 AM	Step 1: Get your DM to use the 20-20-20 rule. That is, three natural 20s in a row instantly kill something, unless it has divine ranks. Step 2: Be a level 1 character armed with a butterknife, staring down the maw of an epic-level dragon. Step 3: Throw your butterknife, and roll 20-20-20. Most DMs will award you divine status then and there. ---------------------------- In reality, it has to be something truly epic. Like, for example, defeating a dozen elder wyrm dragons come to destroy the temple of your patron, and you are already exhausted. Upon your defeat, after slaying eleven of the twelve dragons and making sure that the parishoners had time to escape, your patron will likely reward you with divine status. More then DR 0, anyway. Something like with Gwaeron Windstorm and Mielikki. That kinda' thing. After that...start getting worshippers.
Eminon 03-28-07, 07:58 PM	In the campaign I'm currently playing in, the only legitimate way to become a god is to create an artifact and invest it with power. How exactly do you create an artifact? That's something we have to figure out ourselves, and usually involves some form of personal sacrifice and lots and lots of time and planning.
Reign_of_Ice 04-03-07, 03:20 AM	I always liked the idea of first uncovering a way to become immortal (Divine Rank 0) say you find an artifact or ritual or some such way. Next you go on the prowl for worshippers. You'll basicly go plane hopping and such talkin' the big talk and walkin' the walk. Maybe you pose as one of your own preists and preform "miracles" using your own gimmicks and tricks. Primatives can be impressed easy enough. And what's really the difference beween a slobbering semi-intelligent humanoid or say an actual player race when it comes to followers? A seat in your church is filled all the same. And who says you can't restructure later on. Point is...get followers. With followers comes higher divine rank. Eventually you'll end up competing for worshippers with other gods that may or maynot end up your enemies and so on. (I ramble on) So when you loose followers you could be in danger of loosing divine rank, when you don't have followers at all you become a dead god, and float around the astral realm like a big ol' statue that the gith can build their condos on.
Khadmus 04-05-07, 04:20 PM	The Time of Troubles. That's how Cyric ascended...I think. All I know about the FR gods is from Wikipedia and NWN. Well basically, a cataclysm. Something really, really big. (Going once more to FR) Like the guy who tried to become the god of magic in Netheril, except you succeed.
Khael 04-06-07, 10:03 AM	But the ToT is not really repeatable (unless you know how to pee off an overgod directing him at the gods, not you). And it depends on your gods (Some convention D&D gods can sense anything important going on in their portfolio. A spell to steal the power of a god definately comes under this.)
Khadmus 04-06-07, 10:35 AM	Well, wait for your homebrew world's DM to make a ToT.
darkneolink 04-06-07, 06:29 PM	you could make a dragonlance alike cataclism or pull out a raistlin hey it worked for him... sure he destroyed the universe and everything that was alive but he was a GOD... Ok bad plan