Power of Dieties [Archive] - Wizards Community

Power of Dieties [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SilverEyes
03-29-07, 03:46 PM Is anyone else out there of the belief that the insanely large numbers and basically impossible-to-balance of (some) epic levels and gods and such just absurd?

Does anyone else have campaigns where gods are merely just very powerful creatures (similar to 'aspects' from FCII or celestial paragons from BoED), that can be killed and dealt with?

I respect those DMs who just say; "gods are gods, can't be killed, no stats", whatever (or perhaps "gawds are gawds" :P), but where is the sanity in making insanely large stat blocks if you aren't going to use them. Doesn't it make sense to limit things -in the game as a whole- around the power of 'low-epic'(CR 35 and lower, maybe 30 and lower?) ?(which, some rules, are just laughable - epic spells make no sense)

Maybe my campaign is too 'low-power', but I think the ever-increasing numbers of everything is just a little too ridiculous. Is anyone with me? Is there any reason why I stand deranged (duckman)?
Witch
03-29-07, 03:50 PM but where is the sanity in making insanely large stat blocks if you aren't going to use them.
You know
- exactly what your gods are capable of
- who is stronger/wiser/smarter than who, and by what degree
- who has special abilities that can allow special intervention
... etcetera.

I find it good to know in what ways a deity can be expected to intervene, and what ways are beyond him. Statblocks do this just fine. It stands to reason to limit players around the power of low-epic (being CR 35, which comes down to about level 50).
Kursk
03-29-07, 04:02 PM I treat the data in deities & demi-gods as what the players world thinks they know about the gods. Accumulated data. Reality may be different indeed. If the players ever get to where they think they can go after a god it is up to them... :evillaugh
Shemeska the Marauder
03-29-07, 06:12 PM but where is the sanity in making insanely large stat blocks if you aren't going to use them.

Good question, and it depends on your style of game entirely.

I'm of the opinion that putting "true" stat blocks for deities, archfiends, planar powers, etc limits them to the numbers and turns them into nothing more than big monsters waiting for PCs to kill them once the PCs are X level to be able to fight them. I'll happily make avatar stats for them as required, but I treat them as forces of nature and plot devices more than something mundane with some extra powers and a few score HD added onto it.

Of course some people will be so far on the other end of the spectrum from my view that they'll claim that anything short of including massive god stats for deities even into the CR 1000's or higher oppresses them and their gaming style. Yes, someone claimed that a year or two ago. It was amusing.
Witch
03-29-07, 06:17 PM I'm of the opinion that putting "true" stat blocks for deities, archfiends, planar powers, etc limits them to the numbers
I'll agree it limits them. It doesn't mean they lose their flavor, though ;)

and turns them into nothing more than big monsters waiting for PCs to kill them once the PCs are X level to be able to fight them.
This is plain incorrect. For one, they're always going to be elements of a storyline, beings who're to have goals and minds of their own. The fact that they have stats doesn't change this. For second, giving them stats actually shows what they can do rather than just randomly thinking "they can do this and that, but not that" without any justification.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SilverEyes 03-29-07, 03:46 PM	Is anyone else out there of the belief that the insanely large numbers and basically impossible-to-balance of (some) epic levels and gods and such just absurd? Does anyone else have campaigns where gods are merely just very powerful creatures (similar to 'aspects' from FCII or celestial paragons from BoED), that can be killed and dealt with? I respect those DMs who just say; "gods are gods, can't be killed, no stats", whatever (or perhaps "gawds are gawds" :P), but where is the sanity in making insanely large stat blocks if you aren't going to use them. Doesn't it make sense to limit things -in the game as a whole- around the power of 'low-epic'(CR 35 and lower, maybe 30 and lower?) ?(which, some rules, are just laughable - epic spells make no sense) Maybe my campaign is too 'low-power', but I think the ever-increasing numbers of everything is just a little too ridiculous. Is anyone with me? Is there any reason why I stand deranged (duckman)?
Witch 03-29-07, 03:50 PM	but where is the sanity in making insanely large stat blocks if you aren't going to use them. You know - exactly what your gods are capable of - who is stronger/wiser/smarter than who, and by what degree - who has special abilities that can allow special intervention ... etcetera. I find it good to know in what ways a deity can be expected to intervene, and what ways are beyond him. Statblocks do this just fine. It stands to reason to limit players around the power of low-epic (being CR 35, which comes down to about level 50).
Kursk 03-29-07, 04:02 PM	I treat the data in deities & demi-gods as what the players world thinks they know about the gods. Accumulated data. Reality may be different indeed. If the players ever get to where they think they can go after a god it is up to them... :evillaugh
Shemeska the Marauder 03-29-07, 06:12 PM	but where is the sanity in making insanely large stat blocks if you aren't going to use them. Good question, and it depends on your style of game entirely. I'm of the opinion that putting "true" stat blocks for deities, archfiends, planar powers, etc limits them to the numbers and turns them into nothing more than big monsters waiting for PCs to kill them once the PCs are X level to be able to fight them. I'll happily make avatar stats for them as required, but I treat them as forces of nature and plot devices more than something mundane with some extra powers and a few score HD added onto it. Of course some people will be so far on the other end of the spectrum from my view that they'll claim that anything short of including massive god stats for deities even into the CR 1000's or higher oppresses them and their gaming style. Yes, someone claimed that a year or two ago. It was amusing.
Witch 03-29-07, 06:17 PM	I'm of the opinion that putting "true" stat blocks for deities, archfiends, planar powers, etc limits them to the numbers I'll agree it limits them. It doesn't mean they lose their flavor, though ;) and turns them into nothing more than big monsters waiting for PCs to kill them once the PCs are X level to be able to fight them. This is plain incorrect. For one, they're always going to be elements of a storyline, beings who're to have goals and minds of their own. The fact that they have stats doesn't change this. For second, giving them stats actually shows what they can do rather than just randomly thinking "they can do this and that, but not that" without any justification.