Promotion in place of level advancement? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Promotion in place of level advancement? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pitiless_Interfector
06-19-07, 04:43 PM After acquiring FCII, I realized it had planted the seed of an idea: a campaign wherein the PCs were devils, and level advancement was largely replaced by diabolical promotion. This thread is for discussing RP difficulties and other considerations; my groveling request for the ECLs of all the devils in the MM and FCII will be posted on the Monster's Lair forum. (It's not a cross-post, ArcTan, it's a completely different thread). I was just wondering if anybody had any insights on this topic; past experience, logical deduction, it doesn't matter. Anything helpful would be appreciated.
Mai_ariti
06-21-07, 09:28 AM I don't know how much this will help, but the Devils don't always work in a logical fashion for promotion (ironic I know but...). For example, if your PC wanted to play a Erinyes, she wouldn't want to advance unless she could become a Pleasure Devil because Erinyes don't fall in the proper order of Baator.

The other thing you need to worry about is what happens when a PC has her level drained, does she revert to a former form (yeah that's bad use of English but...) or does she loose power and thus also Level Adjustment actually droping several levels?

Aditionally, just because the Devil is next in the heirarchy doesn't mean that the devil is close to the ECL you want, it could be way higher or lower. For example: I was a Bearded Devil and I got promoted! Huzzah, now I'm a...an IMP?!?! Oh well, next level I become a Steel Devil...(?) How can you run a continuous campaign when the PC's intrest and capabilities will change completely from level to level? In addition, a Devil cannot refuse promotion (I think) so they have to advance. This includes the fact that they make giant jumps in ECL and they have to learn completely new spell-like abilities at every level.

Finally, there are the PCs that really want to become un-Godly powerful spellcasters. How do you explain to a PC that all the levels she put into Wizard as a Imp (if you are advancing by comparable HD or ECL) have just disappeared because she got promoted. Sorry.

I know a have a lot of objections, but I really like the idea, I'm just pointing out that the system will have some major kinks to work out. Make it a point to look closely at the table on pg. 10 of the FCII to see what advances to what...sometimes the pattern makes no sense until you read more about what the Devils do.
Starmage21
06-21-07, 10:52 AM I don't know how much this will help, but the Devils don't always work in a logical fashion for promotion (ironic I know but...). For example, if your PC wanted to play a Erinyes, she wouldn't want to advance unless she could become a Pleasure Devil because Erinyes don't fall in the proper order of Baator.

The other thing you need to worry about is what happens when a PC has her level drained, does she revert to a former form (yeah that's bad use of English but...) or does she loose power and thus also Level Adjustment actually droping several levels?

Aditionally, just because the Devil is next in the heirarchy doesn't mean that the devil is close to the ECL you want, it could be way higher or lower. For example: I was a Bearded Devil and I got promoted! Huzzah, now I'm a...an IMP?!?! Oh well, next level I become a Steel Devil...(?) How can you run a continuous campaign when the PC's intrest and capabilities will change completely from level to level? In addition, a Devil cannot refuse promotion (I think) so they have to advance. This includes the fact that they make giant jumps in ECL and they have to learn completely new spell-like abilities at every level.

Finally, there are the PCs that really want to become un-Godly powerful spellcasters. How do you explain to a PC that all the levels she put into Wizard as a Imp (if you are advancing by comparable HD or ECL) have just disappeared because she got promoted. Sorry.

I know a have a lot of objections, but I really like the idea, I'm just pointing out that the system will have some major kinks to work out. Make it a point to look closely at the table on pg. 10 of the FCII to see what advances to what...sometimes the pattern makes no sense until you read more about what the Devils do.

For some reason, alot of devils dont seem to have class levels at all. Theyre too focused on their jobs as archetypes of their alignments or something. Either way, if you want to play a devil/demon campaign, the PCs as devils/demons could be apart from the normal hierarchy(cornugons have to be perfect in service for 9,999 years to be promoted to Pit Fiends!), but advance as devils do. Becoming an erinyes is an ideal stepping stone on those devils that want to advance quickly, they only promote to Pit Fiends.
Mai_ariti
06-21-07, 11:05 AM You cannot be promoted to the 'rank' of Erinyes and they can be promoted to Pleasure Demons.
Thegans
06-22-07, 12:00 AM I don't know how much this will help, but the Devils don't always work in a logical fashion for promotion (ironic I know but...). For example, if your PC wanted to play a Erinyes, she wouldn't want to advance unless she could become a Pleasure Devil because Erinyes don't fall in the proper order of Baator.

The other thing you need to worry about is what happens when a PC has her level drained, does she revert to a former form (yeah that's bad use of English but...) or does she loose power and thus also Level Adjustment actually droping several levels?

Aditionally, just because the Devil is next in the heirarchy doesn't mean that the devil is close to the ECL you want, it could be way higher or lower. For example: I was a Bearded Devil and I got promoted! Huzzah, now I'm a...an IMP?!?! Oh well, next level I become a Steel Devil...(?) How can you run a continuous campaign when the PC's intrest and capabilities will change completely from level to level? In addition, a Devil cannot refuse promotion (I think) so they have to advance. This includes the fact that they make giant jumps in ECL and they have to learn completely new spell-like abilities at every level.

Finally, there are the PCs that really want to become un-Godly powerful spellcasters. How do you explain to a PC that all the levels she put into Wizard as a Imp (if you are advancing by comparable HD or ECL) have just disappeared because she got promoted. Sorry.

I know a have a lot of objections, but I really like the idea, I'm just pointing out that the system will have some major kinks to work out. Make it a point to look closely at the table on pg. 10 of the FCII to see what advances to what...sometimes the pattern makes no sense until you read more about what the Devils do.

For some reason, alot of devils dont seem to have class levels at all. Theyre too focused on their jobs as archetypes of their alignments or something. Either way, if you want to play a devil/demon campaign, the PCs as devils/demons could be apart from the normal hierarchy(cornugons have to be perfect in service for 9,999 years to be promoted to Pit Fiends!), but advance as devils do. Becoming an erinyes is an ideal stepping stone on those devils that want to advance quickly, they only promote to Pit Fiends.

You cannot be promoted to the 'rank' of Erinyes and they can be promoted to Pleasure Demons.

The post that mentioned that you can not be promoted to an erinyes is correct. They are the only normal devils that are natrually born.

As for promotion it is possible to resist a promotion if its wanted. When it comes to levels thats tricky I can think of four possibilites
1. The devil characters gain outsider hit dice instead of levels but gain feats normally.
2. They gain levels and try to resist promotion. There is one example of an eyrines warrior (although this may not mean that it has levels in warrior) in the Fiendish Codex 2. Although many devils have a favored class.
3. They temporarily lose the levels upon advancement and have to gain permission to use the powers again from a superior. Giving them a kind of psedopromotion.
4. They keep the hit dice, ability increase, and feats but lose all other class abilities until they become unique devils. Once they become unique devils their abilities from the class levels are used to determine their new forms powers and personality. This would probably work best if combined with number three.
Rerecros
06-22-07, 12:28 AM After hearing all of this, I am so glad I didn't buy the fiendish codex :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pitiless_Interfector 06-19-07, 04:43 PM	After acquiring FCII, I realized it had planted the seed of an idea: a campaign wherein the PCs were devils, and level advancement was largely replaced by diabolical promotion. This thread is for discussing RP difficulties and other considerations; my groveling request for the ECLs of all the devils in the MM and FCII will be posted on the Monster's Lair forum. (It's not a cross-post, ArcTan, it's a completely different thread). I was just wondering if anybody had any insights on this topic; past experience, logical deduction, it doesn't matter. Anything helpful would be appreciated.
Mai_ariti 06-21-07, 09:28 AM	I don't know how much this will help, but the Devils don't always work in a logical fashion for promotion (ironic I know but...). For example, if your PC wanted to play a Erinyes, she wouldn't want to advance unless she could become a Pleasure Devil because Erinyes don't fall in the proper order of Baator. The other thing you need to worry about is what happens when a PC has her level drained, does she revert to a former form (yeah that's bad use of English but...) or does she loose power and thus also Level Adjustment actually droping several levels? Aditionally, just because the Devil is next in the heirarchy doesn't mean that the devil is close to the ECL you want, it could be way higher or lower. For example: I was a Bearded Devil and I got promoted! Huzzah, now I'm a...an IMP?!?! Oh well, next level I become a Steel Devil...(?) How can you run a continuous campaign when the PC's intrest and capabilities will change completely from level to level? In addition, a Devil cannot refuse promotion (I think) so they have to advance. This includes the fact that they make giant jumps in ECL and they have to learn completely new spell-like abilities at every level. Finally, there are the PCs that really want to become un-Godly powerful spellcasters. How do you explain to a PC that all the levels she put into Wizard as a Imp (if you are advancing by comparable HD or ECL) have just disappeared because she got promoted. Sorry. I know a have a lot of objections, but I really like the idea, I'm just pointing out that the system will have some major kinks to work out. Make it a point to look closely at the table on pg. 10 of the FCII to see what advances to what...sometimes the pattern makes no sense until you read more about what the Devils do.
Starmage21 06-21-07, 10:52 AM	I don't know how much this will help, but the Devils don't always work in a logical fashion for promotion (ironic I know but...). For example, if your PC wanted to play a Erinyes, she wouldn't want to advance unless she could become a Pleasure Devil because Erinyes don't fall in the proper order of Baator. The other thing you need to worry about is what happens when a PC has her level drained, does she revert to a former form (yeah that's bad use of English but...) or does she loose power and thus also Level Adjustment actually droping several levels? Aditionally, just because the Devil is next in the heirarchy doesn't mean that the devil is close to the ECL you want, it could be way higher or lower. For example: I was a Bearded Devil and I got promoted! Huzzah, now I'm a...an IMP?!?! Oh well, next level I become a Steel Devil...(?) How can you run a continuous campaign when the PC's intrest and capabilities will change completely from level to level? In addition, a Devil cannot refuse promotion (I think) so they have to advance. This includes the fact that they make giant jumps in ECL and they have to learn completely new spell-like abilities at every level. Finally, there are the PCs that really want to become un-Godly powerful spellcasters. How do you explain to a PC that all the levels she put into Wizard as a Imp (if you are advancing by comparable HD or ECL) have just disappeared because she got promoted. Sorry. I know a have a lot of objections, but I really like the idea, I'm just pointing out that the system will have some major kinks to work out. Make it a point to look closely at the table on pg. 10 of the FCII to see what advances to what...sometimes the pattern makes no sense until you read more about what the Devils do. For some reason, alot of devils dont seem to have class levels at all. Theyre too focused on their jobs as archetypes of their alignments or something. Either way, if you want to play a devil/demon campaign, the PCs as devils/demons could be apart from the normal hierarchy(cornugons have to be perfect in service for 9,999 years to be promoted to Pit Fiends!), but advance as devils do. Becoming an erinyes is an ideal stepping stone on those devils that want to advance quickly, they only promote to Pit Fiends.
Mai_ariti 06-21-07, 11:05 AM	You cannot be promoted to the 'rank' of Erinyes and they can be promoted to Pleasure Demons.
Thegans 06-22-07, 12:00 AM	I don't know how much this will help, but the Devils don't always work in a logical fashion for promotion (ironic I know but...). For example, if your PC wanted to play a Erinyes, she wouldn't want to advance unless she could become a Pleasure Devil because Erinyes don't fall in the proper order of Baator. The other thing you need to worry about is what happens when a PC has her level drained, does she revert to a former form (yeah that's bad use of English but...) or does she loose power and thus also Level Adjustment actually droping several levels? Aditionally, just because the Devil is next in the heirarchy doesn't mean that the devil is close to the ECL you want, it could be way higher or lower. For example: I was a Bearded Devil and I got promoted! Huzzah, now I'm a...an IMP?!?! Oh well, next level I become a Steel Devil...(?) How can you run a continuous campaign when the PC's intrest and capabilities will change completely from level to level? In addition, a Devil cannot refuse promotion (I think) so they have to advance. This includes the fact that they make giant jumps in ECL and they have to learn completely new spell-like abilities at every level. Finally, there are the PCs that really want to become un-Godly powerful spellcasters. How do you explain to a PC that all the levels she put into Wizard as a Imp (if you are advancing by comparable HD or ECL) have just disappeared because she got promoted. Sorry. I know a have a lot of objections, but I really like the idea, I'm just pointing out that the system will have some major kinks to work out. Make it a point to look closely at the table on pg. 10 of the FCII to see what advances to what...sometimes the pattern makes no sense until you read more about what the Devils do. For some reason, alot of devils dont seem to have class levels at all. Theyre too focused on their jobs as archetypes of their alignments or something. Either way, if you want to play a devil/demon campaign, the PCs as devils/demons could be apart from the normal hierarchy(cornugons have to be perfect in service for 9,999 years to be promoted to Pit Fiends!), but advance as devils do. Becoming an erinyes is an ideal stepping stone on those devils that want to advance quickly, they only promote to Pit Fiends. You cannot be promoted to the 'rank' of Erinyes and they can be promoted to Pleasure Demons. The post that mentioned that you can not be promoted to an erinyes is correct. They are the only normal devils that are natrually born. As for promotion it is possible to resist a promotion if its wanted. When it comes to levels thats tricky I can think of four possibilites 1. The devil characters gain outsider hit dice instead of levels but gain feats normally. 2. They gain levels and try to resist promotion. There is one example of an eyrines warrior (although this may not mean that it has levels in warrior) in the Fiendish Codex 2. Although many devils have a favored class. 3. They temporarily lose the levels upon advancement and have to gain permission to use the powers again from a superior. Giving them a kind of psedopromotion. 4. They keep the hit dice, ability increase, and feats but lose all other class abilities until they become unique devils. Once they become unique devils their abilities from the class levels are used to determine their new forms powers and personality. This would probably work best if combined with number three.
Rerecros 06-22-07, 12:28 AM	After hearing all of this, I am so glad I didn't buy the fiendish codex :D