Questions about Lady of Pain [Archive] - Wizards Community

Questions about Lady of Pain [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
xXOblivionXx
06-25-07, 11:01 PM She sounds awesome, so does anybody know anything about her and where can I find more information about her other than those in the DM guide?
Rerecros
06-25-07, 11:32 PM We could tell ya, but then you might get flayed :D
Von_Harbringer
06-26-07, 12:18 AM I would suggest looking at Planescape material. However to save you time there isn't much information on her. There are many rumors about her though. Most likely she is some sort of deity but she doesn't have any worshipers if anybody tries to worship her or organize a cult dedicated to her she imprisons them in a demi-plane maze. Her portfolio is portals (if she truly is a deity). She controls all the doors into the city of doors (Sigil). No deities are allowed in the city, including quasi-powers like demon lords. There is even debate whether or not she is female. She doesn't answer (or talk to) anybody. She is there to keep the peace, nothing more. Some have challenged her and all have failed. I read a book once that a man crafted a chain made from the bones of a dead god in order to bind her. He was imprisoned in a demi-plane and found a way out of the maze. He lives his life in fear.
Wyvern76
06-26-07, 12:34 AM The best source of "information" that I know of is here (http://mimir.net/ladyofpain/index.shtml). Granted, it's mostly unofficial speculation and rumor, but that's the point -- officially, she's an enigma (and should always remain so).

Wyvern
Taeldrin Laesrash
06-26-07, 01:17 AM I read a book once that a man crafted a chain made from the bones of a dead god in order to bind her. He was imprisoned in a demi-plane and found a way out of the maze. He lives his life in fear.

What book was this?

The LoP is a big mystery in Planescape. Within Sigil, she can flay or maze (Imprison in a demiplanar maze, as said) anyone in the city. She's done this to entire groups of people before, mainly factions who tried to get a hold on the city, like the Communals, Incantifiers, and Expansionists. And she doesn't like the gods; as said, she has no cults, and gods can't get into the city (With the exception of Vecna, but that was either barely justified or very strange).

Despite attempts to figure out what she is (Don't trust any source-Including the Planar Handbook), there's still no better answer than dozens of rumors. The novel Pages of Pain described her, I think, as a daughter of Poseidon or something like that. I don't think it's canon.
Von_Harbringer
06-26-07, 01:40 AM It was from a novel years ago. I don't even know if I have the book any more. I believe it is the Blood War trilogy (Blood Hostages, Abyssal Warriors, and Planar Powers).
xXOblivionXx
06-26-07, 09:25 AM Thanks, everyone. That link Wyvern gave seems very interesting+
Shemeska the Marauder
06-26-07, 07:22 PM The novel Pages of Pain described her, I think, as a daughter of Poseidon or something like that. I don't think it's canon.

None of them are considered as such. They might be well written in some cases, but they break some of the core precepts of the setting, or appear that the author really hadn't read the material before writing it (some portions of the Blood War trilogy are ugly).

Pages of Pain was actually a very well written story, and I rather liked it. Sort of like an elseworlds style non-canon comic book within an established comic title.

That said, as I recall the plot, even within Pages of Pain, the idea of the Lady being a lost daughter of Poseidon was a lie created by Poseidon in an attempt to worm his influence into the city.
Joni-san
06-26-07, 09:59 PM *Worships the Lady of Pain*

[USER WAS FLAYED FOR THIS POST]
DrStalker
06-27-07, 03:33 AM There's a rumor going around that anyone trying to come up with stats for the Lady of Pain is flayed alive. :-)

As far as using her in a game she's pure plot device; anything she wants to do within Sigil, she can do. Trying to find out too much about her (what she is, what her goals are, what her limits are, etc) is a risky business, and PCs need to have that impressed upon them so they don't get upset if their characters suddenly end up mazed and/or dead.
sciborg2
06-27-07, 04:01 AM I think killing the Lady of Pain depends on figuring out first the purpose of Sigil in your campaign. It could be a disaster or open the door to new epic level conflicts...

author really hadn't read the material before writing it (some portions of the Blood War trilogy are ugly).

I thought all the deviations were justified in those novels.
ripvanwormer
06-27-07, 01:22 PM I don't think it's canon.

Different settings interpret "canon" in different ways. In Ravenloft, only some of the novels are canon. In Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun, pretty much all of them (or all of them, as far as I know). In Greyhawk, none of them have been canonized.

Nothing from a Planescape novel ever ended up in a Planescape sourcebook (unless you count characters from the novelization of Torment being statted in Dragon Magazine), so it seems safe to assume that none of them are canon.
Joni-san
06-27-07, 03:15 PM *Snip about novel canon in various settings*
The Eberron novels aren't canon for the setting.

(unless you count characters from the novelization of Torment being statted in Dragon Magazine)

Which issue number?
XHereticX
06-27-07, 05:59 PM Different settings interpret "canon" in different ways. In Ravenloft, only some of the novels are canon. In Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun, pretty much all of them (or all of them, as far as I know). In Greyhawk, none of them have been canonized.

Nothing from a Planescape novel ever ended up in a Planescape sourcebook (unless you count characters from the novelization of Torment being statted in Dragon Magazine), so it seems safe to assume that none of them are canon.

There were Planescape novels????
Thegans
06-27-07, 06:44 PM I would suggest looking at Planescape material. However to save you time there isn't much information on her. There are many rumors about her though. Most likely she is some sort of deity but she doesn't have any worshipers if anybody tries to worship her or organize a cult dedicated to her she imprisons them in a demi-plane maze. Her portfolio is portals (if she truly is a deity). She controls all the doors into the city of doors (Sigil). No deities are allowed in the city, including quasi-powers like demon lords. There is even debate whether or not she is female. She doesn't answer (or talk to) anybody. She is there to keep the peace, nothing more. Some have challenged her and all have failed. I read a book once that a man crafted a chain made from the bones of a dead god in order to bind her. He was imprisoned in a demi-plane and found a way out of the maze. He lives his life in fear.

*Worships the Lady of Pain*

[USER WAS FLAYED FOR THIS POST]

I know who the Lady of Pain is the evidence is clear. First she is beyond human understanding and second she kills her worshipers.

The Lady of Pain is the Great Old One Cynothoglys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Old_One_compendium#Cynothoglys)

Personally I prefer the Outer Gods but at least we know there might be something more powerful than her.
sciborg2
06-27-07, 06:58 PM I don't think the Lady of Pain is the epitome of power in the D&D setting...she's a mystery, perhaps a mere projection, to keep Sigil from tipping the Balance. She may be a rilmani construct, or the last survivor of the race that preceded them a previous age...
ripvanwormer
06-28-07, 02:32 PM The Eberron novels aren't canon for the setting.

Okay. I'd assumed they were, but I had no idea what I was talking about.

Which issue number?

Dragon Magazine #264

There were Planescape novels????

Yes.

The Blood War Trilogy:

Blood Hostages
Abyssal Warriors
Planar Powers

Pages of Pain (a standalone novel)

Planescape: Torment (novelization of the computer game)

And two FR novels that included the planes, Sigil, and the factions:

Finder's Bane
Tymora's Luck
Joni-san
06-28-07, 02:57 PM Okay. I'd assumed they were, but I had no idea what I was talking about.

No problem, it's an easy mistake to make. It's strange however that you made it, because you seem to be the type that researches a topic before making a statement.

Dragon Magazine #264

Thanks :)

And two FR novels that included the planes, Sigil, and the factions:

Finder's Bane
Tymora's Luck

Finder's Bane would be the one wher that Deity put all his divinity into his proxies so he could enter Sigil, right? There was a mention of him feeling "watched" IIRC.
ripvanwormer
06-28-07, 04:11 PM No problem, it's an easy mistake to make. It's strange however that you made it, because you seem to be the type that researches a topic before making a statement.

Normally, yeah. For whatever reason, I didn't even question the idea that Eberron's novels would be canon.

Finder's Bane would be the one wher that Deity put all his divinity into his proxies so he could enter Sigil, right?

Yup.
Taeldrin Laesrash
06-28-07, 04:19 PM I think the Ebberon change might be recent. Good thing too, otherwise, they'd might go the way of FR: A dozen world-shaking catastrophes happening all the time at the same time because they make good reading.
Joni-san
06-29-07, 03:34 AM As far as I know, the decision to consider novels not canon has been there since the setting was published. I think the decision to have no meta-plot also affects this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xXOblivionXx 06-25-07, 11:01 PM	She sounds awesome, so does anybody know anything about her and where can I find more information about her other than those in the DM guide?
Rerecros 06-25-07, 11:32 PM	We could tell ya, but then you might get flayed :D
Von_Harbringer 06-26-07, 12:18 AM	I would suggest looking at Planescape material. However to save you time there isn't much information on her. There are many rumors about her though. Most likely she is some sort of deity but she doesn't have any worshipers if anybody tries to worship her or organize a cult dedicated to her she imprisons them in a demi-plane maze. Her portfolio is portals (if she truly is a deity). She controls all the doors into the city of doors (Sigil). No deities are allowed in the city, including quasi-powers like demon lords. There is even debate whether or not she is female. She doesn't answer (or talk to) anybody. She is there to keep the peace, nothing more. Some have challenged her and all have failed. I read a book once that a man crafted a chain made from the bones of a dead god in order to bind her. He was imprisoned in a demi-plane and found a way out of the maze. He lives his life in fear.
Wyvern76 06-26-07, 12:34 AM	The best source of "information" that I know of is here (http://mimir.net/ladyofpain/index.shtml). Granted, it's mostly unofficial speculation and rumor, but that's the point -- officially, she's an enigma (and should always remain so). Wyvern
Taeldrin Laesrash 06-26-07, 01:17 AM	I read a book once that a man crafted a chain made from the bones of a dead god in order to bind her. He was imprisoned in a demi-plane and found a way out of the maze. He lives his life in fear. What book was this? The LoP is a big mystery in Planescape. Within Sigil, she can flay or maze (Imprison in a demiplanar maze, as said) anyone in the city. She's done this to entire groups of people before, mainly factions who tried to get a hold on the city, like the Communals, Incantifiers, and Expansionists. And she doesn't like the gods; as said, she has no cults, and gods can't get into the city (With the exception of Vecna, but that was either barely justified or very strange). Despite attempts to figure out what she is (Don't trust any source-Including the Planar Handbook), there's still no better answer than dozens of rumors. The novel Pages of Pain described her, I think, as a daughter of Poseidon or something like that. I don't think it's canon.
Von_Harbringer 06-26-07, 01:40 AM	It was from a novel years ago. I don't even know if I have the book any more. I believe it is the Blood War trilogy (Blood Hostages, Abyssal Warriors, and Planar Powers).
xXOblivionXx 06-26-07, 09:25 AM	Thanks, everyone. That link Wyvern gave seems very interesting+
Shemeska the Marauder 06-26-07, 07:22 PM	The novel Pages of Pain described her, I think, as a daughter of Poseidon or something like that. I don't think it's canon. None of them are considered as such. They might be well written in some cases, but they break some of the core precepts of the setting, or appear that the author really hadn't read the material before writing it (some portions of the Blood War trilogy are ugly). Pages of Pain was actually a very well written story, and I rather liked it. Sort of like an elseworlds style non-canon comic book within an established comic title. That said, as I recall the plot, even within Pages of Pain, the idea of the Lady being a lost daughter of Poseidon was a lie created by Poseidon in an attempt to worm his influence into the city.
Joni-san 06-26-07, 09:59 PM	Worships the Lady of Pain [USER WAS FLAYED FOR THIS POST]
DrStalker 06-27-07, 03:33 AM	There's a rumor going around that anyone trying to come up with stats for the Lady of Pain is flayed alive. :-) As far as using her in a game she's pure plot device; anything she wants to do within Sigil, she can do. Trying to find out too much about her (what she is, what her goals are, what her limits are, etc) is a risky business, and PCs need to have that impressed upon them so they don't get upset if their characters suddenly end up mazed and/or dead.
sciborg2 06-27-07, 04:01 AM	I think killing the Lady of Pain depends on figuring out first the purpose of Sigil in your campaign. It could be a disaster or open the door to new epic level conflicts... author really hadn't read the material before writing it (some portions of the Blood War trilogy are ugly). I thought all the deviations were justified in those novels.
ripvanwormer 06-27-07, 01:22 PM	I don't think it's canon. Different settings interpret "canon" in different ways. In Ravenloft, only some of the novels are canon. In Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun, pretty much all of them (or all of them, as far as I know). In Greyhawk, none of them have been canonized. Nothing from a Planescape novel ever ended up in a Planescape sourcebook (unless you count characters from the novelization of Torment being statted in Dragon Magazine), so it seems safe to assume that none of them are canon.
Joni-san 06-27-07, 03:15 PM	Snip about novel canon in various settings The Eberron novels aren't canon for the setting. (unless you count characters from the novelization of Torment being statted in Dragon Magazine) Which issue number?
XHereticX 06-27-07, 05:59 PM	Different settings interpret "canon" in different ways. In Ravenloft, only some of the novels are canon. In Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun, pretty much all of them (or all of them, as far as I know). In Greyhawk, none of them have been canonized. Nothing from a Planescape novel ever ended up in a Planescape sourcebook (unless you count characters from the novelization of Torment being statted in Dragon Magazine), so it seems safe to assume that none of them are canon. There were Planescape novels????
Thegans 06-27-07, 06:44 PM	I would suggest looking at Planescape material. However to save you time there isn't much information on her. There are many rumors about her though. Most likely she is some sort of deity but she doesn't have any worshipers if anybody tries to worship her or organize a cult dedicated to her she imprisons them in a demi-plane maze. Her portfolio is portals (if she truly is a deity). She controls all the doors into the city of doors (Sigil). No deities are allowed in the city, including quasi-powers like demon lords. There is even debate whether or not she is female. She doesn't answer (or talk to) anybody. She is there to keep the peace, nothing more. Some have challenged her and all have failed. I read a book once that a man crafted a chain made from the bones of a dead god in order to bind her. He was imprisoned in a demi-plane and found a way out of the maze. He lives his life in fear. Worships the Lady of Pain [USER WAS FLAYED FOR THIS POST] I know who the Lady of Pain is the evidence is clear. First she is beyond human understanding and second she kills her worshipers. The Lady of Pain is the Great Old One Cynothoglys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Old_One_compendium#Cynothoglys) Personally I prefer the Outer Gods but at least we know there might be something more powerful than her.
sciborg2 06-27-07, 06:58 PM	I don't think the Lady of Pain is the epitome of power in the D&D setting...she's a mystery, perhaps a mere projection, to keep Sigil from tipping the Balance. She may be a rilmani construct, or the last survivor of the race that preceded them a previous age...
ripvanwormer 06-28-07, 02:32 PM	The Eberron novels aren't canon for the setting. Okay. I'd assumed they were, but I had no idea what I was talking about. Which issue number? Dragon Magazine #264 There were Planescape novels???? Yes. The Blood War Trilogy: Blood Hostages Abyssal Warriors Planar Powers Pages of Pain (a standalone novel) Planescape: Torment (novelization of the computer game) And two FR novels that included the planes, Sigil, and the factions: Finder's Bane Tymora's Luck
Joni-san 06-28-07, 02:57 PM	Okay. I'd assumed they were, but I had no idea what I was talking about. No problem, it's an easy mistake to make. It's strange however that you made it, because you seem to be the type that researches a topic before making a statement. Dragon Magazine #264 Thanks :) And two FR novels that included the planes, Sigil, and the factions: Finder's Bane Tymora's Luck Finder's Bane would be the one wher that Deity put all his divinity into his proxies so he could enter Sigil, right? There was a mention of him feeling "watched" IIRC.
ripvanwormer 06-28-07, 04:11 PM	No problem, it's an easy mistake to make. It's strange however that you made it, because you seem to be the type that researches a topic before making a statement. Normally, yeah. For whatever reason, I didn't even question the idea that Eberron's novels would be canon. Finder's Bane would be the one wher that Deity put all his divinity into his proxies so he could enter Sigil, right? Yup.
Taeldrin Laesrash 06-28-07, 04:19 PM	I think the Ebberon change might be recent. Good thing too, otherwise, they'd might go the way of FR: A dozen world-shaking catastrophes happening all the time at the same time because they make good reading.
Joni-san 06-29-07, 03:34 AM	As far as I know, the decision to consider novels not canon has been there since the setting was published. I think the decision to have no meta-plot also affects this.