Post/Author/DateTime	Post
awaken_D_M_golem 02-17-07, 04:19 PM	My 1st post on this board :D rip , i love the timeline ... linky! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9487530&postcount=7) ... and ... rip2 , revenge of rip linky! I'm curious about the interaction of the CO board creations and the general D&D timeline. Q 1 :Is it mere conjecture that the moment of creation , of something the rules imply -- and then the co board-ites find -- exists on your timeline ? Q 2 : And if their power is great enough to affect the timeline , would it ? Q 3 : Can anything happen on the FarRealms , or can ANYTHING happen on the FarRealms ? I'll hold off on Q4 , and some speculation ... :evillaugh thanks ahead of time.
ripvanwormer 02-17-07, 04:48 PM	I'm curious about the interaction of the CO board creations What's the CO board?
Deacon Liadon 02-17-07, 05:24 PM	Character Optimisation boards? Pun-pun and other such creations of the Character Optimisation boards are not considered to be canon and are thus unlikely to show up in anything which is based purely off canon sources.
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-17-07, 07:19 PM	Pretty much all the planar timelines are subjective, since there's not exact dates and such. CO board creations, like the above poster said, are purely theoretical, and do not actually exist in the 'canon' D&D universe (If Pun-Pun gets to come to a game table, that's the group's problem). Also, the Far Realm isn't just a place where anything happens; that's Limbo. The Far Realm is a completely separate reality from the standard cosmology, with completely different laws of physics and such. Anything may happen there, but it's not by our terms.
ripvanwormer 02-17-07, 08:02 PM	Character Optimisation boards? In that case, yes. The Character Optimization people can probably transform reality. Or even the Far Realm. Go nuts. I revised the order of events (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=786923) in the timeline linked to above, incidently. Since the Fiendish Codex II gave a strong role to the ancestors of the baatezu in the Law-Chaos wars, I assumed that early references to the baatezu were references to them, and thus the Law-Chaos war happened much later than I had previously assumed.
Bob the Efreet 02-18-07, 12:03 AM	Q 3 : Can anything happen on the FarRealms , or can ANYTHING happen on the FarRealms ? Have you read Dreams in the Witch-House, by H.P. Lovecraft? I was recently re-reading it, and struck by how his descriptions of the realms outside the normal universe seemed like the Far Realms.
awaken_D_M_golem 02-19-07, 04:50 PM	Aha ! So , that which the rules create , are not that which are the rules. Q4 : Piscaethces - The Blood Queen of the Aboleths { amongst other things, too } is described as : traveling the currents of probability between infinite realities ... This establishes that there Are ... currents of probability between infinite realities , Yes ? The Plane of Mirrors , if entered , creates immediately a Mirror version of any creature. So ... the ringer is what happens if / when / maybe Piscaethces grazes the Plane of Mirrors. It seems to me , the 'probability' that She would not or never interact is zero. Also , the Mirror-Piscaethces would be native and have her full powers. And , the Mirror-P would be 'probably' able to break all mirrors in the constellation that pops up. and ... P could leave any way and ... mirrror-P wouldn't die due to being deific-ly powerful Is this a real probability ? Is this Q5 or maybe not. I can only define probability by my own limited understanding of it , which is probably OK ;)
Shemeska the Marauder 02-19-07, 07:38 PM	Aha ! So , that which the rules create , are not that which are the rules. Q4 : Piscaethces - The Blood Queen of the Aboleths { amongst other things, too } is described as : traveling the currents of probability between infinite realities ... This establishes that there Are ... currents of probability between infinite realities , Yes ? I'd read that as meaning that Piscaethces has a habit of wandering the deep ethereal, occasionally taking interest in the various mature and nascent realities that bubble off of it like apples on a tree, or bubbles riding atop the currents of a bottomless ocean. The Ethereal is literally the realm of raw probability and unformed potential, etc with the multiverse of the Great Wheel and the Far Realm being alternate realities that exist branched off of it. If piscaethes is swimming the Deep Ethereal, she'll have the chance to muck around with any number of radically divergent realities. She'd be at home swimming within the Bleed of the wildstorm universe if you read comics. :) The Plane of Mirrors , if entered , creates immediately a Mirror version of any creature. The 'Plane of Mirrors' is an optional plane and doesn't necessarily have a firm grounding in planar history enough for me, or anyone, to firmly answer the question. I wouldn't think that the plane would make perfect copies for everything that went there. Mortals, less powerful creatures, yes; but not for gods, planar powers, or godlike beings from entirely different realities. It all depends on the definition of the Plane of Mirrors, and if its interaction holds true for everything, or only things that have a place within whatever reality it functions within.
BOZ 02-19-07, 11:56 PM	Rip also updated his timeline on ENWorld, using new information gleaned from Dragon #353.
ripvanwormer 02-20-07, 01:32 AM	This establishes that there Are ... currents of probability between infinite realities , Yes ? My interpretation of this is that Piscaethces dwells in the Far Realm, but travels to the known planes to spawn, like a turtle returns to the beach to lay eggs. So ... the ringer is what happens if / when / maybe Piscaethces grazes the Plane of Mirrors. It seems to me , the 'probability' that She would not or never interact is zero. What if the Plane of Mirrors is too small for her to fit in it? We'll call that a "maybe."
awaken_D_M_golem 02-20-07, 07:17 PM	Hey , thanks for the replies 'guys' - since I really have NO idea what gender has to do with Yugoloths ... Shemmy : did you eat your baby brother or were you 'born' cute ? I think the Plane of Mirrors , despite being non-infinite in size , specifically expands as much as necessary relative to whatever enters. It's pretty clear if a psuedo-natural thingy extended a psuedopod through a mirror into the plane , the whole creature would become mirror-ized in full. In a worst case scenario , a non-infinite sized part of PunPun , entering during his omnipresence , would immediately create a mirrorPun superthingy ... heh. rip : 'maybe' is a probability above zero , so ... yes ?! here on the far realm(s) of insanity - internet , I thought original Star Trek was canon ;) and is there any probability that WotC would not publish new material that would modify eventually all pre-existing rules ?
Deacon Liadon 02-21-07, 12:36 PM	Not having my copy of the MotP on me at the moment, I can't be certain, but if I recall correctly, the plane of mirrors is divinely morphic. So unless a power wants to create an opposite of itself I'd say that they would have to power to supress the nature of the plane in their vicinity whenever they enter it.
awaken_D_M_golem 02-22-07, 04:40 PM	umm ... explaining the joke toward Shemeska ... { gets out 2E nycaloth baby bipple battle details } uber-Ringer : I'm curious about the Sultan of the City of Brass presumably it is an Efreeti , and in Epic - kerleth's tower adventure , it can ... i feel like calling it a he ... He can put up a 60th level epic spell that keeps out Abominations. Q : What other deific qualities does the Sultan have ? Divine rank 1 or more , and some advancement , to go with the 60th level castery stuff. but I don't have all books / isn't this perhaps more powerful than some of the Greater Deities ?!
Shemeska the Marauder 02-22-07, 05:31 PM	Shemmy : did you eat your baby brother or were you 'born' cute ? *scoff* "I suppose if you want to count me being cute when I was a mezzoloth perhaps. I wasn't born into caste, I worked my way up from the bottom, if in quick form compared to the average. Now of course I'll happily insinuate that A'kin was born into rank." http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/shemmywink.gif "And 'loth gender is... complicated. Assume what you like, that's what we do. So to speak."
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-22-07, 06:33 PM	umm ... explaining the joke toward Shemeska ... { gets out 2E nycaloth baby bipple battle details } uber-Ringer : I'm curious about the Sultan of the City of Brass presumably it is an Efreeti , and in Epic - kerleth's tower adventure , it can ... i feel like calling it a he ... He can put up a 60th level epic spell that keeps out Abominations. Q : What other deific qualities does the Sultan have ? Divine rank 1 or more , and some advancement , to go with the 60th level castery stuff. but I don't have all books / isn't this perhaps more powerful than some of the Greater Deities ?! Don't trust the ELH, or D&DG. Both fail somewhat at their jobs (I sound like I'm from Dicefreaks). The Sultan probably isn't divine, but definately powerful. The ELH figure was just showing off its big numbers. The Sultan should be an advanced Efreeti, maybe with Sha'ir levels or something.
ripvanwormer 02-22-07, 06:49 PM	The Planar Handbook defined Sultan Marrake al-Sidan al-Hariq ben Lazen, Grand Sultan of All the Efreet, as a 20th level efreeti sorcerer. He has no deific qualities. Whether that's powerful enough depends on the campaign, I suppose. I think the size of the Plane of Mirrors depends on the size and number of mirrors in any one "constellation." I don't think there's any way for it to expand, and I don't think it necessarily expands to admit larger creatures. The plane is normally the size of a normal castle hallway (but longer and more mazelike). rip : 'maybe' is a probability above zero , so ... yes ?! I think there's maybe a chance that the probability is above zero, depending on how you interpret the Mirror Plane. According to some interpretations, the probability is zero. and is there any probability that WotC would not publish new material that would modify eventually all pre-existing rules ? Probably not.
BOZ 02-22-07, 06:52 PM	the leaders of the genies could be on a similar level to the archomentals?
Shemeska the Marauder 02-22-07, 07:23 PM	the leaders of the genies could be on a similar level to the archomentals? Unlikely, considering that the Efreet for instance have a temple to Imix in the City of Brass. Consider the ramifications of that as you will.
BOZ 02-22-07, 07:51 PM	heretics? ;)
ripvanwormer 02-22-07, 08:16 PM	Not according to Secrets of the Lamp - Imix's mosque is among the most popular with the efreeti nobles and legions (Hastsezini is also popular among nobles, but he has fewer priests). Among efreeti commoners, who tend toward neutrality, Agni and Freya are more popular. If any efreet are heretics, it's the worshipers of Kossuth, whose faith is legal but discouraged. I'd say the worship of Imix amounts to an official state religion in the City of Brass. Yeah, saw your smiley, but felt like responding anyway.
awaken_D_M_golem 02-23-07, 04:33 PM	hmm ... so the Sultan is either a 21st level sorcerer , or knows some-thingy that's really powerful. " excuse me , but could you put a 60th level epic ward right there , please ;) " { that last smiley was picked up by telepathy } so what did the Sultan have to do ? And why help out Kerleth ?
Thanael 02-24-07, 04:30 AM	Or Kerleth Tower is a place where once in the past someone lived who was either a 21st+ level arcane caster or who knew someone really powerful. In ELH it say: ... a ward provided by the Sultan. So maybe hestruck a deal with someone. Probably someone divine. Hmm... Kossuth?