Saint Cuthbert, LG? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Saint Cuthbert, LG? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kain Darkwind
07-17-07, 07:34 PM The article in Dragon says Cuthbert is LG with strong LN tendancies. I thought it was the other way around? Has he had an official alignment shift, or was this just a typo?
Witch
07-17-07, 07:35 PM Doesn't it really come down to about the same thing, only now, they don't need to justify him not allowing Rebuke Undead or Evil spells, nor evil clerics?
Gwenfloor
07-17-07, 11:56 PM I just look at the Greyhawk deity, Pholtus, for the St. Cuthbert alignment debate. Apparently, Pholtus is Lawful Good, yet their Clerics do not lose their powers for converting worshipers of other deities, even other Lawful Good ones, against their will, and the deity has declared ALL Goblinoids and Giants as their enemy. It did not specify about the non-evil Giants. He also did not take away the powers from Clerics who tortured arcane spell casters to death, simply for knowing how to use arcane spells. He also allowed Lawful Evil clerics in pre-3rd edition. Yet, in the same campaign, St. Cuthbert is Lawful Neutral. Saint Cuthbert does not convert others against their will, nor does he label an entirely broad category of humanoids as his enemies. I am pretty sure that Saint Cuthbert has no trouble accepting Goblinoids and Giants among his ranks.
In conclusion, by going by the traditional D&D alignments, Pholtus should be Lawful Neutral. If Pholtus remains Lawful Good, then Saint Cuthbert should become Lawful Good, as Pholtus is clearly more Evil in the D&D sense than Saint Cuthbert.
Borris
07-18-07, 12:31 AM In Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert is LG with LN tendencies.

In the core setting, though (the one in the PHB), they needed a LN deity of revenge and retribution. They already had three LG deities, but only Wee Jas for LN. So they shifted St. Cuthbert's alignment from LG(LN) to LN(LG). Note that while Core uses deities from the Greyhawk campaign setting, it's a different setting. It only has twenty or so deities whereas Greyhawk has about a hundred.

And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not.
Gwenfloor
07-18-07, 12:46 AM In Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert is LG with LN tendencies.

In the core setting, though (the one in the PHB), they needed a LN deity of revenge and retribution. They already had three LG deities, but only Wee Jas for LN. So they shifted St. Cuthbert's alignment from LG(LN) to LN(LG). Note that while Core uses deities from the Greyhawk campaign setting, it's a different setting. It only has twenty or so deities whereas Greyhawk has about a hundred.

And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not.

How is a God (mainly) of Revenge and Retribution Lawful? All alignments have examples of the previous two.
Kain Darkwind
07-18-07, 12:33 PM In Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert is LG with LN tendencies.

In the core setting, though (the one in the PHB), they needed a LN deity of revenge and retribution. They already had three LG deities, but only Wee Jas for LN. So they shifted St. Cuthbert's alignment from LG(LN) to LN(LG). Note that while Core uses deities from the Greyhawk campaign setting, it's a different setting. It only has twenty or so deities whereas Greyhawk has about a hundred.

And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not.

I see the light.

It always did strike me as weird that the LN Saint Cuthbert was less of an ass than the LG Pholtus.
ripvanwormer
07-18-07, 03:21 PM The article in Dragon says Cuthbert is LG with strong LN tendancies. I thought it was the other way around?

Same thing. Either formulation spells Arcadia.

Pholtus lives in Mechanus (in a realm called the Path of the Law).

Both have good tendencies, but Cuthbert's are a little more pronounced.

Both were listed as LG (LN tendencies) in 1st and 2nd edition.

And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not.

The core St. Cuthbert abhors evil as much as any other version, and wouldn't permit the summoning of LE monsters.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kain Darkwind 07-17-07, 07:34 PM	The article in Dragon says Cuthbert is LG with strong LN tendancies. I thought it was the other way around? Has he had an official alignment shift, or was this just a typo?
Witch 07-17-07, 07:35 PM	Doesn't it really come down to about the same thing, only now, they don't need to justify him not allowing Rebuke Undead or Evil spells, nor evil clerics?
Gwenfloor 07-17-07, 11:56 PM	I just look at the Greyhawk deity, Pholtus, for the St. Cuthbert alignment debate. Apparently, Pholtus is Lawful Good, yet their Clerics do not lose their powers for converting worshipers of other deities, even other Lawful Good ones, against their will, and the deity has declared ALL Goblinoids and Giants as their enemy. It did not specify about the non-evil Giants. He also did not take away the powers from Clerics who tortured arcane spell casters to death, simply for knowing how to use arcane spells. He also allowed Lawful Evil clerics in pre-3rd edition. Yet, in the same campaign, St. Cuthbert is Lawful Neutral. Saint Cuthbert does not convert others against their will, nor does he label an entirely broad category of humanoids as his enemies. I am pretty sure that Saint Cuthbert has no trouble accepting Goblinoids and Giants among his ranks. In conclusion, by going by the traditional D&D alignments, Pholtus should be Lawful Neutral. If Pholtus remains Lawful Good, then Saint Cuthbert should become Lawful Good, as Pholtus is clearly more Evil in the D&D sense than Saint Cuthbert.
Borris 07-18-07, 12:31 AM	In Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert is LG with LN tendencies. In the core setting, though (the one in the PHB), they needed a LN deity of revenge and retribution. They already had three LG deities, but only Wee Jas for LN. So they shifted St. Cuthbert's alignment from LG(LN) to LN(LG). Note that while Core uses deities from the Greyhawk campaign setting, it's a different setting. It only has twenty or so deities whereas Greyhawk has about a hundred. And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not.
Gwenfloor 07-18-07, 12:46 AM	In Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert is LG with LN tendencies. In the core setting, though (the one in the PHB), they needed a LN deity of revenge and retribution. They already had three LG deities, but only Wee Jas for LN. So they shifted St. Cuthbert's alignment from LG(LN) to LN(LG). Note that while Core uses deities from the Greyhawk campaign setting, it's a different setting. It only has twenty or so deities whereas Greyhawk has about a hundred. And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not. How is a God (mainly) of Revenge and Retribution Lawful? All alignments have examples of the previous two.
Kain Darkwind 07-18-07, 12:33 PM	In Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert is LG with LN tendencies. In the core setting, though (the one in the PHB), they needed a LN deity of revenge and retribution. They already had three LG deities, but only Wee Jas for LN. So they shifted St. Cuthbert's alignment from LG(LN) to LN(LG). Note that while Core uses deities from the Greyhawk campaign setting, it's a different setting. It only has twenty or so deities whereas Greyhawk has about a hundred. And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not. I see the light. It always did strike me as weird that the LN Saint Cuthbert was less of an ass than the LG Pholtus.
ripvanwormer 07-18-07, 03:21 PM	The article in Dragon says Cuthbert is LG with strong LN tendancies. I thought it was the other way around? Same thing. Either formulation spells Arcadia. Pholtus lives in Mechanus (in a realm called the Path of the Law). Both have good tendencies, but Cuthbert's are a little more pronounced. Both were listed as LG (LN tendencies) in 1st and 2nd edition. And since St. Cuthbert doesn't allow NG clerics in Greyhawk, the only mechanical differences would be that a LN of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert would have a strong aura od Good while one of the Core St. Cuthbert wouldn't. Also, a LN cleric of the Core St. Cuthbert could summon LE monsters with the summon monster spells, but a LN cleric of the Greyhawk St. Cuthbert could not. The core St. Cuthbert abhors evil as much as any other version, and wouldn't permit the summoning of LE monsters.