Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IrishRover 09-05-07, 03:11 PM	I've thought of a deity to add to almost any campaign (and likely to be added to mine) I'm interested in what people think of her. Detailed stats aren't important for now, as direct encounters and conflict with her are not in the offing. She is known for being both very strong and intelligent, even as a mortal. Name: Saoirse, Lady Liberty, Goddess of freedom Race: Was Human, now Outsider (augmented human) Sex: Female Physical traits: She always appears as an athletic redhead, most often human, but occasionally of other races Personality traits: Impulsive, quick to laugh, friendly…yet this is replaced by a cold wrath when slavery or unjust imprisonment is in sight. Iconic Equipment: "Chaincleaver," a greatsword that severs any bonds, magical or otherwise Portfolio: Freedom, Rebellion Alignment: Chaotic Good Classes: Fighter 30/ Mage 30 Worshippers: All who seek freedom for themselves or others Clerical Alignment: CG, CN, NG (despite her alignment, she does have an order of paladins sworn to destroy slavery) Domains: War, Liberation, Destruction, Wrath Favored Weapon: Chaincleaver (Greatsword), Unarmed Note: Clerics that choose the war domain receive weapon focus and weapon proficiency in Greatsword, as well as Improved Unarmed Combat and Weapon Focus: Unarmed. Symbol: Her right arm, holding Chaincleaver…shattered remnants of chain flying through the air As a mortal, Saoirse was a relatively typical adventurer until the love of her life was seized by slavers. It took her years to first find her, then rescue her…the owner would not sell when approached through intermediaries. When she finally managed to mount a rescue, things went bad, and the rescuee sacrificed herself to allow Saoirse, her friends, and a shipload of freed slaves to win clear. The last words her dying love said to Saoirse were, “ ‘Tis better to die free than live a slave…thank you…” After slaughtering the ones that killed her love, Saoirse devoted her life to ending slavery. At first, she was a warrior—those of Thay called her bandit—freeing slaves and slaughtering slavers. It was only after falling in love again, three years after she buried her first love, that any sort of caution entered her thoughts again. She would risk all to free slaves, but she would not recklessly risk her new love’s life. The two women continued the fight for freedom, but more wisely—recruiting more to the cause, allying with like minded groups, and more. How she became a god: Years ago, after much bargaining, an alliance of slave holders convinced the forces of hell to set a trap for Saoirse and her band. The fiends bought a group of slaves to transport to Hell, and made sure she got word of it. The rescue attemtp turned into a fiasco, as almost all of the rescuer’s abilities had been planned for. Even so, they fought their way back, and Saoirse herself held the planar nexus portal long enough for the survivors to pass through, but she was stricken in the portal itself. She should have died then and there…how she survived, none know—or at least, none tell—but somehow, she took into herself vast amounts of planar energies. In that instant, she became a goddess. Dogma: Freedom is the most valuable thing anyone can have…more valuable than life itself. To fight for freedom is the most worthy cause any being can take up. (This need not be physically fighting…those who seek to change laws, provide shelter to runaways, or even simply boycott goods made by slaveholding lands are all welcome.) Although the death of one in bondage is a tragedy, let not the risk to them stop you from attempting to liberate slaves…’tis better to die free than to stay enslaved. Quarter for slaveholders is a privilege, not a right that they can expect, and NOT due to those who were excessively cruel or callous. No Quarter for those who traffic in sentient beings…slave merchants and those who aid them deserve nought but a merciful death. Her worship is popular—and forbidden—among slaves, but she is also honored by many others. Although a good deity, she attracts the prayers of criminals who want to remain un-apprehended, or want to get out of gaol. Divine Rank 6
Shiftkitty 09-05-07, 03:29 PM	Sort of a philosphical question. Why no LG clerics? Freedom and chaos quickly devole into anarchy, which is easily exploited by the evil. It's one of the paradoxes of freedom that for a society to continue to exist as free, one must define where one's freedom ends and another's begins. This is done through laws agreed upon by the majority. Otherwise, those slavers were perfectly within their own freedom to take slaves. Another quickie, would the clerics be trained in the Escape Artist and Open Locks skills as part of the "undoing of bonds" tradition? And, in combat, would one of these clerics be more prone to not take prisoners, preferring to kill than to deprive another of freedom? I like this deity. We've had a major upheaval in the entire divine system in our game, and new gods are emerging even as old gods find themselves on the wrong side of the wheel.
JulesCARV 09-05-07, 04:10 PM	The default way the cleric/deity relationship works in D&D is that clerics can be within one step of their deity's alignment and function as clerics in terms of spells, domain granted powers, and turning/rebuking undead. Thus, NG, CG, and CN are the default permitted alignments for a CG goddess. (There are exceptions, such as St. Cuthbert, but they're exceptions.)
IrishRover 09-05-07, 04:32 PM	Sort of a philosphical question. Why no LG clerics? Freedom and chaos quickly devole into anarchy, which is easily exploited by the evil. It's one of the paradoxes of freedom that for a society to continue to exist as free, one must define where one's freedom ends and another's begins. This is done through laws agreed upon by the majority. Otherwise, those slavers were perfectly within their own freedom to take slaves. Another quickie, would the clerics be trained in the Escape Artist and Open Locks skills as part of the "undoing of bonds" tradition? And, in combat, would one of these clerics be more prone to not take prisoners, preferring to kill than to deprive another of freedom? I like this deity. We've had a major upheaval in the entire divine system in our game, and new gods are emerging even as old gods find themselves on the wrong side of the wheel. She is chaotic, so no LG clerics. Law can be too stifling of freedom. The neutral good clerics naturally recognise that law has a place in maintaining freedom, and even some chaotics recognise that a certain amount of order is important to society. But a lawful allignment does suggest, in general, the right of society to imprison or enslave people...so her clerics can't be lawful. I am considering adding open locks and/or escape artist to the skills for clerics, if it can be done in a balanced manner. I might well change a few spells in the liberation domain...perhaps replace "Rage" with Knock. The wrath domain covers rage nicely. Saoirse herself likely does not have open locks or escape artist...she would use spells or sheer brute strength (she is a fighter-mage) to do the trick. As for the prisoner question, thatis a good point. Her dogma specifies no quarter for slave traders..the only mercy for them is a quick death. It also states that any quarter for slaveholders is a privilege...one that the worshiper may choose to grant. I think that they would not take prisoners that were to be locked up for a long time, but might take a prisoner IF the intent was to let the prisoner go when they could. (A mercenary guard might be taken prisoner, to be released, on parole, if need be, but someone under sentence of life imprisonment would be given coup de grace. Of course, she is a good diety, so if someone formally surrendered, unless they were slave traders or slave owners, they might well accept it, as it is their choice to surrender. Incidently, I am interested in opinions on different domains and possible salient divine abilities...I just might do up her stats. What is the standard divine array for stats?
Shiftkitty 09-05-07, 09:50 PM	If you don't mind, I may borrow her from you when all this is done. I like her so far, but like I said, we've had a major upheaval in the divine system, and the emphasis in our campaign has fallen on Law. Chaotic deities are really up against it. Even as new gods now find breathing room in the pantheon, that first part of the alignment has become so important! (That's not to say all chaotic gods are getting the short end of the stick, they just have to prove themselves before the Godslayer gets their names on his list.) What's her portfolio? Obviously the enslaved/downtrodden masses is one of them. Would she have a problem with authority figures in general, or just the corrupt ones? (She sounds like a more fiery version of a PC I once played. He never made it to godhood, though. Still a mere mortal, but he'd most likely become one of her more dedicated and outspoken followers.) One more question that would crop up were she in my gameworld: voluntary slavery. In my game, a person sentenced to death can, at the judge's or ruler's discretion, be offered slavery instead. Numerous devices and enchantments get put in place to ensure that the person doesn't just kill his new owner and escape, and under this program, only licensed slaveowners can purchase these voluntary slaves. I know she believes that death is preferable to slavery, but how might she regard one of these licensed slaveholders, whose entire stock of slaves consists of people whose lives depend on someone being willing to purchase them? And how might she view those who have chosen slavery over death? (These slaveholders are routinely spot-checked to make sure no abuse of power is taking place, and some slaves, if well-behaved and reformed enough, can petition the court for the right to buy their freedom back. Lots of technicalities in this system, like the owner now being required to give the slave a certain amount of personal time to find a job that pays, no permanent alterations to a slave acquired thusly, etc.) I've never quite figured out how to assign stats to a deity. They don't seem to follow the same level progression of PCs. I'm eager to see what someone more experienced with inventing gods comes up with.
IrishRover 09-06-07, 12:27 AM	If you don't mind, I may borrow her from you when all this is done. I like her so far, but like I said, we've had a major upheaval in the divine system, and the emphasis in our campaign has fallen on Law. Chaotic deities are really up against it. Even as new gods now find breathing room in the pantheon, that first part of the alignment has become so important! (That's not to say all chaotic gods are getting the short end of the stick, they just have to prove themselves before the Godslayer gets their names on his list.) What's her portfolio? Obviously the enslaved/downtrodden masses is one of them. Would she have a problem with authority figures in general, or just the corrupt ones? (She sounds like a more fiery version of a PC I once played. He never made it to godhood, though. Still a mere mortal, but he'd most likely become one of her more dedicated and outspoken followers.) One more question that would crop up were she in my gameworld: voluntary slavery. In my game, a person sentenced to death can, at the judge's or ruler's discretion, be offered slavery instead. Numerous devices and enchantments get put in place to ensure that the person doesn't just kill his new owner and escape, and under this program, only licensed slaveowners can purchase these voluntary slaves. I know she believes that death is preferable to slavery, but how might she regard one of these licensed slaveholders, whose entire stock of slaves consists of people whose lives depend on someone being willing to purchase them? And how might she view those who have chosen slavery over death? (These slaveholders are routinely spot-checked to make sure no abuse of power is taking place, and some slaves, if well-behaved and reformed enough, can petition the court for the right to buy their freedom back. Lots of technicalities in this system, like the owner now being required to give the slave a certain amount of personal time to find a job that pays, no permanent alterations to a slave acquired thusly, etc.) I've never quite figured out how to assign stats to a deity. They don't seem to follow the same level progression of PCs. I'm eager to see what someone more experienced with inventing gods comes up with. Her portfolio is all who seek greater freedom. Authority figures who use their authority to ensure freedom for the people are acceptable. Of course, different followers are likely to have different ideas of what's acceptable. Often, they would be seen as a necessary evil. Merchants in a tightly controled economy, citizens of a tyrany, conscripts, and those in free societies that value what they have...all likely worshipers. In a society where people pay their respects to an assortment of gods, many stop to honor her from time to time. Voluntary slavery would seem very wrong to her. The idea of becoming a slave to avoid death, but with the intention of escaping as soon as possible, would be understandable. I can see her followers allowing themselves to be enslaved deliberately as a form of infiltration--only to break free to kill slavers or free slaves. Anyone who chooses slavery over death, as in your justice system, has choosen to forgo all that makes them human, and so has placed themselves beyond concern. It was their choice. Any of her congregation that makes such a choice is a blasphemer of the worst sort. Those who aid implementing such a system are foul scum, worthy of only contempt, but not necessarily to be slain out of hand. After all, they only deal in those who are less than human...less than animal, even, for they chose to throw away all that makes them human. That's my first thought, though it could end up differnen on further reflection. You are certainly welcome to use her in your campaign. Please, any suggestions as to additional domains would be appreciated. Note: "Saoirse" is Irish Gaelic for freedom.
DoctorRomulus 09-06-07, 09:04 AM	Too easy, just too easy. I've thought of a deity to add to almost any campaign (and likely to be added to mine) I'm interested in what people think of her. Detailed stats aren't important for now, as direct encounters and conflict with her are not in the offing. She is known for being both very strong and intelligent, even as a mortal. Name: Saoirse, Lady Liberty, Goddess of freedom Race: Was Human, now Outsider (augmented human) Sex: Female Physical traits: She always appears as an athletic redhead, most often human, but occasionally of other races Personality traits: Impulsive, quick to laugh, friendly…yet this is replaced by a cold wrath when slavery or unjust imprisonment is in sight. Iconic Equipment: "Chaincleaver," a greatsword that severs any bonds, magical or otherwise Portfolio: Freedom, Rebellion Alignment: Chaotic Good Classes: Fighter 30/ Mage 30 Worshippers: All who seek freedom for themselves or others Clerical Alignment: CG, CN, NG (despite her alignment, she does have an order of paladins sworn to destroy slavery) Domains: War, Liberation, Destruction, Wrath Favored Weapon: Chaincleaver (Greatsword), Unarmed Note: Clerics that choose the war domain receive weapon focus and weapon proficiency in Greatsword, as well as Improved Unarmed Combat and Weapon Focus: Unarmed. Symbol: Her right arm, holding Chaincleaver…shattered remnants of chain flying through the air As a mortal, Saoirse was a relatively typical adventurer until the love of her life was seized by slavers. It took her years to first find her, then rescue her…the owner would not sell when approached through intermediaries. When she finally managed to mount a rescue, things went bad, and the rescuee sacrificed herself to allow Saoirse, her friends, and a shipload of freed slaves to win clear. The last words her dying love said to Saoirse were, “ ‘Tis better to die free than live a slave…thank you…” After slaughtering the ones that killed her love, Saoirse devoted her life to ending slavery. At first, she was a warrior—those of Thay called her bandit—freeing slaves and slaughtering slavers. It was only after falling in love again, three years after she buried her first love, that any sort of caution entered her thoughts again. She would risk all to free slaves, but she would not recklessly risk her new love’s life. The two women continued the fight for freedom, but more wisely—recruiting more to the cause, allying with like minded groups, and more. How she became a god: Years ago, after much bargaining, an alliance of slave holders convinced the forces of hell to set a trap for Saoirse and her band. The fiends bought a group of slaves to transport to Hell, and made sure she got word of it. The rescue attemtp turned into a fiasco, as almost all of the rescuer’s abilities had been planned for. Even so, they fought their way back, and Saoirse herself held the planar nexus portal long enough for the survivors to pass through, but she was stricken in the portal itself. She should have died then and there…how she survived, none know—or at least, none tell—but somehow, she took into herself vast amounts of planar energies. In that instant, she became a goddess. Dogma: Freedom is the most valuable thing anyone can have…more valuable than life itself. To fight for freedom is the most worthy cause any being can take up. (This need not be physically fighting…those who seek to change laws, provide shelter to runaways, or even simply boycott goods made by slaveholding lands are all welcome.) Although the death of one in bondage is a tragedy, let not the risk to them stop you from attempting to liberate slaves…’tis better to die free than to stay enslaved. Quarter for slaveholders is a privilege, not a right that they can expect, and NOT due to those who were excessively cruel or callous. No Quarter for those who traffic in sentient beings…slave merchants and those who aid them deserve nought but a merciful death. Her worship is popular—and forbidden—among slaves, but she is also honored by many others. Although a good deity, she attracts the prayers of criminals who want to remain un-apprehended, or want to get out of gaol. Divine Rank 6
Sunblast 09-06-07, 09:50 AM	She looks kinda nifty. Not bad. :D That said, keep in mind that there is already a deity of freedom. He was presented in Complete Divine (If I had the book with me, I'd tell you more). I figured I should mention that, just in case you were intending to use the deities made up by Wizards of the Coast. After all, you probably can't have two deities of freedom... can you? :eek: As for her order of paladins, might I recommend the paladin of freedom from Unearthed Arcana?
IrishRover 09-06-07, 02:30 PM	She looks kinda nifty. Not bad. :D That said, keep in mind that there is already a deity of freedom. He was presented in Complete Divine (If I had the book with me, I'd tell you more). I figured I should mention that, just in case you were intending to use the deities made up by Wizards of the Coast. After all, you probably can't have two deities of freedom... can you? :eek: As for her order of paladins, might I recommend the paladin of freedom from Unearthed Arcana? I just might use the Paladin of Freedom as her order of paladins. As for an existing deity of freedom, I only bought some books, and don't have that one. (Though I think my book buying for D&D has come to an abrupt end, as has my colletion of Dragons.) Besides, in various regions, there certainly can be gods with the same portfolio, just as in Norway, Greece, and Egypt.
IrishRover 09-09-07, 10:58 PM	I have decided that I am going to stat her out, and am wondering what feats, salient divine abilities, and other things people think she should have. Her combat style, both for spells and melee, lacks subtlety...she's very much a wade in and chop--or blast...type of individual. The more ideas, the better... Incidently, she chose her first 2 divine abilities from the mindset of an adventurer, not the mindset of a goddess.
Shiftkitty 09-10-07, 08:21 AM	Oh, that combat style is perfect! One of my favorite quotes from US history is "Extremism in the defense of freedom is no vice. Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue."
Devil Gnasher 09-10-07, 11:38 PM	Oh, that combat style is perfect! One of my favorite quotes from US history is "Extremism in the defense of freedom is no vice. Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." Ah, Barry Goldwater, the quitessencial spokseman for Chotic Good. That's saying a lot since he's been dead for around 9 years. For exmaples of some of his best quotes, see below. Also the original Goldwater quote was, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" -Late senator Barry Goldwater, Republican from Arizona and once presidential candiate. "Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism." -Late senator Barry Goldwater, Republican from Arizona and once presidential candiate. "My faith in the future rests squarely on the belief that man, if he doesn't first destroy himself, will find new answers in the universe, new technologies, new disciplines, which will contribute to a vastly different and better world in the twenty-first century. Recalling what has happened in my short lifetime in the fields of communication and transportation and the life sciences, I marvel at the pessimists who tell us that we have reached the end of our productive capacity, who project a future of primarily dividing up what we now have and making do with less. To my mind the single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -Late senator Barry Goldwater, Republican from Arizona and once presidential candiate. "On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism." -Late senator Barry Goldwater, Republican from Arizona and once presidential candiate. "You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight." -Late senator Barry Goldwater, Republican from Arizona and once presidential candiate. "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since at least the time of Julius Caesar." -Late senator Barry Goldwater, Republican from Arizona and once presidential candiate. I may have gotten a bit off topic, but these quotes from Barry Goldwater would be perfect for your Saoirse.
Shiftkitty 09-11-07, 08:32 AM	Wow! That was worth wandering off-topic for! I'm going to have to study Barry AuH2O (when I was a kid it took me awhile to figure out that spelling of Goldwater!). I may have found a new hero to add to my personal pantheon of greatness!
IrishRover 09-11-07, 10:19 PM	Thanks for the Bary Goldwater quotes! They fit Saoirse quite nicely. I might just fit a few of them into her holy writings...especially the first two and the last two. I'm still needing different ideas for salient divine abilities and the like. Here's one roughed out special Salient Divine Ability. Unique Salient Divine Ability: Bursting the Bonds As a move action, the deity shatters all bonds, bursts all locks that keep something confined dispells all enchantments. This is a cone, 100 feet long per divine rank. Note that locks that solely keep things out, such as a safe or house lock, are not affected. However, if they are being used to keep a sentient being confined, they will burst asunder. And some others that might go well... Divine Spellcasting Alter Size Annihilating Strike Divine Weapon Focus Divine Weapon Specialization Spontaneous Wizard spells Arcane Mastery Supreme initiative
Shiftkitty 09-12-07, 08:19 AM	Just a memory of a sword carried by Col. Dugan, the PC I mentioned earlier. A lot that I did about him was centered on American symbolism from various places. An old poem decribed America as the "multi-fathered child", referring to the wide variety of ethnicity and national origins of the people, so I gave him a bastard sword named "Fateful Lightning" (from "Battle Hymn of the Republic") I don't have all of the stats in front of me (this was a long time ago, but I remember that it only had to be touched to something like ropes, chains, or anything holding another sentient being in bondage, and with the command "Let freedom ring" the bonds would come undone. I do remember that the sword would not allow itself to be carried evil or neutral people. Ill try to post something helpful this weekend, but we've got a vacation upon us, and I have to get things packed, the house squared away, etc., so I may end up being pretty busy.