Sigil, The Lady of Pain, and Deities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sigil, The Lady of Pain, and Deities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ray53208
02-23-07, 02:27 PM okay here is my question. on the surface it seems obvious, but it sparked a discussion in my group.

if the lady of pain denies all gods access to the city of sigil, does that extend to quasi-deities that have a divine rank of zero? yes/no and why, please.

my first impulse was no. every description of her ive read says that she bars entry to all gods and divine beings. but if powerful outsiders can enter why couldnt a quasi-deity that in many ways is of equal or lesser power. espcially if those quasi-deities are player characters with less than 20 HD.
sciborg2
02-23-07, 02:32 PM The Lady of Pain denies outsiders as well. It is questionable if she can deny anyone at whim...
Doom_Linnorm
02-23-07, 03:00 PM The Lady of Pain denies outsiders as well.

Don't you mean:

The Lady of Pain can deny outsiders as well.

Becouse last I checked there were atleast two Arcanoloths living in Sigil and who knows how many other outsiders.
ripvanwormer
02-23-07, 03:13 PM if the lady of pain denies all gods access to the city of sigil, does that extend to quasi-deities that have a divine rank of zero? yes/no and why, please.

Yes. These are analogous to the "near-powers" that were the main point of the adventure Harbinger House.

The story behind that adventure is that the Believers of the Source faction was looking for people on the verge of ascending to true godhood. They put them in a mental asylum called Harbinger House, which included an artifact (the focrux) that shielded all within from the Lady's gaze. In this way, the inmates could evolve to the equivalent of rank 0 quasideities without the Lady of Pain knowing.

When the focrux is finally destroyed, the Lady of Pain banishes them from Sigil. She doesn't kill or maze them, however - she just makes it clear that it's time for them to go.

but if powerful outsiders can enter why couldnt a quasi-deity that in many ways is of equal or lesser power. espcially if those quasi-deities are player characters with less than 20 HD.

Because it has nothing to do with hit dice, it has to do with the presence of divine power - the capability of gaining power from mortal worship, and possibly the power to tap into the power that the Lady of Pain gains from Sigil itself. This potential is what is dangerous, not hit dice.

I guess it depends on what you think a deity is. Is it just a set of bonuses and special abilities? Or does it represent an entirely new level of being, one more aware of the inner workings of the cosmos and capable of transforming reality, at least on divinely-morphic planes?
spectralphoenix
02-23-07, 04:14 PM I think the other issue is sheer disruption potential - demigods tend to be out looking for worshippers, trying to gain more power, whatever. Even powerful outsiders are typically just there to do business and hang out. Those that do get disruptive get in touch with their flayed side.

Now that I think about it, maybe it's a neutrality thing? As far as I know, nobody worships Shemeska or the various outsiders running around Sigil. But even Demigods try to be worshipped, or at least attract worshippers. If one started preaching and starting up a following personally in Sigil, there could be dire philosophical implications.
JoAT
02-23-07, 05:20 PM The Lady can deny anyone passage, if she wishes, simply by virtue of causing the portal used not to work. On a similar level, she could allow anyone entry, even if they are deities. In practice, she has no real reason to deny anyone aside from deities, or allow any deities to enter. Of course, since her true motiviation is a mystery, she could do either or both, as the adventure warrants (and deities in Sigil, with her permission would make for an interesting adventure hook...)
Starmage21
02-23-07, 06:51 PM okay here is my question. on the surface it seems obvious, but it sparked a discussion in my group.

if the lady of pain denies all gods access to the city of sigil, does that extend to quasi-deities that have a divine rank of zero? yes/no and why, please.

my first impulse was no. every description of her ive read says that she bars entry to all gods and divine beings. but if powerful outsiders can enter why couldnt a quasi-deity that in many ways is of equal or lesser power. espcially if those quasi-deities are player characters with less than 20 HD.

If it were me running the game, Quasi-deties would indeed be barred.

This brings up a question though. Her Serenity has let proxies go to and from the Cage unhindered, but there are proxies, and there are divine proxies(those who have received DvR 1 temporarily from their patron). Would The Lady allow those proxies into the city?
ripvanwormer
02-23-07, 07:36 PM The most dangerous powers of a rank 1 demigod are the powers to create a divine realm in a divinely morphic plane, and the power to change small aspects of reality related to their portfolio. If divine proxies can do those things, they shouldn't be allowed in Sigil.
Millennium
02-23-07, 09:06 PM The Lady of Pain can bar anyone, but the only people she seems to have just outright categorically banned are those with a divine rank (even zero). As long as you're not a deity you can be as powerful as you please and she won't care, but as soon as you pick up DR0 she gets paranoid.
sciborg2
02-24-07, 02:31 PM If she can bar anyone, why the plague against the Indeps? Note that I'm willing to say that was a single designer taking too many liberties...
ripvanwormer
02-24-07, 02:43 PM If she can bar anyone, why the plague against the Indeps?

The Indeps were already in the city. The Lady evidently wanted to balance out the numbers in the various factions (far too many people chose to be Indeps rather than the more opinionated factions), and she didn't want to do so by as blatant a method as mazing or flaying them. Waiting for them to leave and not letting them back in again would have taken too long.

It's also true that it's only hinted that the Lady was responsible for the plague. Maybe the plague had another source entirely.
Chanmanm8
03-01-07, 06:18 PM If it were me running the game, Quasi-deties would indeed be barred.

This brings up a question though. Her Serenity has let proxies go to and from the Cage unhindered, but there are proxies, and there are divine proxies(those who have received DvR 1 temporarily from their patron). Would The Lady allow those proxies into the city?

It was said in the planescape supplements that proxies are barely tolerated, but allowed nonetheless. If they were to do anything to upset the lady, she could and would oust them (or put them in her mazes or flay them).

Anyone remember the famous 2e campaign where the closes the Lady of Pain came to being overthrown was by Vecna?

However, it was stated that for her own reasons she allowed that to happen, and "the party" defeats him in the end anyways.

If I remember correctly, this was a trilogy of Campaigns...one of them was "Vecna Lives" and the last one was "Die Vecna Die". Basically, the party witnesses the events discussed briefly in 3.0 backgrounds:

You witness vecna becoming a Lich (but not yet a god), the conflict with Kas who became a traitor due to the artifact Vecna made him, The involvment of the undead looking god Iuz who thwarted Vecna's of using the powerful Tovag Baragu, broke free after being imprisoned by Iuz at Citadel Cavitius, absorbed Iuz and became a Greater Deity...and then "broke" into Sigil (believed that the lady of pain allowed him in, for purposes of her own), and then thwarted by the party, Iuz is released/resurrected, Vecna becomes Lesser Deity, etc etc etc.
Jaerom Darkwind
03-01-07, 08:02 PM I'd say that quasi-deities would be allowed in the Cage, but only on the 'one dumb thing' rule. I'd start the banning at DvR 1, "true gods". I'm fairly certain that there are several creatures that inhabited Sigil in PS which now have DvR 0 in 3E.
Shemeska the Marauder
03-01-07, 10:50 PM I would add that gods have entered Sigil (outside of the frootloopy module that is DieVecnaDie).

The deity Finder of the Faerunian pantheon managed to enter Sigil by first intentionally divesting himself of virtually all of his divine power, temporarily ceding all but the last scraps of his divinity to one of his proxies. He was able to enter Sigil to handle the business at hand that required his attention, but for the entire time that he was inside the city, he felt both uncomfortable and watched wherever he went.
sciborg2
03-02-07, 02:04 AM There's also a lesser Abyssal Lord who somehow was accidentally summoned. I think he has the power of a lesser or demigod. So far, he hasn't brought any attention to himself...
Ohtar Turinson
03-02-07, 02:24 AM There's also a lesser Abyssal Lord who somehow was accidentally summoned. I think he has the power of a lesser or demigod. So far, he hasn't brought any attention to himself...
Yeah, Grundlethum's Automatic Scribe. Somehow a wizard accidentally summoned a "lesser abyssal power" into his machine when he was trying for an (erudite) elemental, and it's been causing a string of accidents in the area, but nothing wide spread yet.
ripvanwormer
03-02-07, 03:36 AM The whole Abyssal lord isn't in there, just a small part of his influence.

The important part of the story is that Grundlethum somehow magicked a hole in the Lady's defenses. The Abyssal lord shouldn't be able to influence Sigil without a portal at all. It shows the Lady isn't omnipotent (the focrux shows the same thing).
Voran
03-04-07, 09:41 AM The Lady of Pain is certainly an odd duck. The ability to tell every other deity to 'f-off' when it comes to them entering her domain would suggest she's got an 'over deity' DvR of what...21 at least? Which just seems a little odd to me.

I wonder if it would make better sense to say her powers are equal to or slightly less than a 'typical' Greater ranked deity, but her slavish, almost mentally unbalanced focus on creating a private domain either boosts her effective DvR in such cases, or due to the limited powerbase in terms of worshippers for other deities by people actually stuck in her realm, the effective DvR of a deity is reduced when they try to oppose her.

To keep some sorta balance I would say it would be possible for a coalition of greater gods with like 18-20 DvR rankings, would be able to 1)Give the Lady of Pain a beatdown 2)Break into her world. Of course, the cost of such would be high, since they'd be assaulting an essentially fortified location.

Ultimately the cost ends up making even greater gods realize its not really worth the effort. Woohoo! We can run around Sigil! Um...now what?
crimsonwolf
03-04-07, 12:53 PM why cant she be worshipped again?
ripvanwormer
03-04-07, 03:12 PM I wonder if it would make better sense to say her powers are equal to or slightly less than a 'typical' Greater ranked deity, but her slavish, almost mentally unbalanced focus on creating a private domain either boosts her effective DvR in such cases

I don't think the ability to bar deities from using her portals requires any sort of divine rank. She's not physically engaging in a contest of power with them; she just controls portals with the property of choosing who can use them. Anybody who ruled Sigil could do the same, divine rank or no.

Killing the greater deity Aoskar did require some power - it still doesn't necessarily mean she's a god herself, but it at least means she has access to an equivalent level of power, at least in that one instance.

why cant she be worshipped again?

She doesn't want to be; no one knows why not. Some believe that if too many people worshiped her, she might become a deity, and her city would reject her. This is a good argument that she doesn't actually have any divine rank at present.
crimsonwolf
03-04-07, 03:25 PM ... Xoastor, Historian known for his Unlikely Flights of Fancy

"The Lady of Pain was Queen of the Bladelings. See, once upon a time the bladeling city Zoronor perched in the same place as Sigil. It was there for longer than anyone can remembers, but all this happened so long ago that nobody living remembers it either. The Lady ruled the bladelings, being one of them herself, only then her whole body was covered with blades.

"Now Zoronor's spherical and it didn't balance that well up there on top of the Spire. In fact, it got knocked off. Some say it was by the Lady herself (the bladelings didn't make good servants), some claim it was a mighty storm (the likes of which have never been seen since), yet others say the perpetrator's long dead. Whoever it was, Zoronor got shunted from it's rightful place at the centre of the planes into the lowest layers of Acheron.

"Anyway, the Lady rebuilt a city, this time better balanced, and abandoned the bladelings in Acheron. The dabus were her new children. She took more humanoid form, but was never able to rid herself of the blades around her neck. Maybe they're blades of office?

"The darkest chant goes that Zoronor itself replaced an earlier city, which also fell off. That'd make Sigil the Third Incarnation of the City at the Centre; makes a blood wonder where the first one went."
:D:D:D:D:D:D plot line here i come
Jaerom Darkwind
03-04-07, 06:03 PM why cant she be worshipped again?All speculation on Her motives aside, what is very definitely known is that the Lady annihilates anyone who worships Her by flaying them with Her shadow (no saving throw). Worshiping Her Serenity is a very effective means of committing suicide.
sciborg2
03-04-07, 10:27 PM Really, she serves a similar purpose to Ao, as in a balancing point that explains why the setting can logically -- as much as fantasy needs logic -- exist within the rules it sets.

If Sigil had no protector then the fact that it goes everywhere would make it the prime jewel for every planar army to grasp -- recall that Sigil is meant as a means for 1st level characters to play on the planes. The designers could simply have barred the gods without giving any explanation, but decided to be creative.

They've been hounded unnecessarily ever since.
crimsonwolf
03-05-07, 02:37 AM could she block out Ao.......
Shemeska the Marauder
03-05-07, 03:02 AM could she block out Ao.......

Ao has no power outside of Toril, so yes.
Bob the Efreet
03-05-07, 03:52 AM could she block out Ao.......

She blocks out whoever she wants. She rarely restricts it to specific individuals, but She could keep out Remzag, orcish tribal shaman, if She for some reason decided to do so.

why cant she be worshiped again?

She'll kill you. It's like saying "why can't Demogorgon be hugged?"

He can be. He'll just rape your face into a putrescent man-like goo as soon as you get near him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ray53208 02-23-07, 02:27 PM	okay here is my question. on the surface it seems obvious, but it sparked a discussion in my group. if the lady of pain denies all gods access to the city of sigil, does that extend to quasi-deities that have a divine rank of zero? yes/no and why, please. my first impulse was no. every description of her ive read says that she bars entry to all gods and divine beings. but if powerful outsiders can enter why couldnt a quasi-deity that in many ways is of equal or lesser power. espcially if those quasi-deities are player characters with less than 20 HD.
sciborg2 02-23-07, 02:32 PM	The Lady of Pain denies outsiders as well. It is questionable if she can deny anyone at whim...
Doom_Linnorm 02-23-07, 03:00 PM	The Lady of Pain denies outsiders as well. Don't you mean: The Lady of Pain can deny outsiders as well. Becouse last I checked there were atleast two Arcanoloths living in Sigil and who knows how many other outsiders.
ripvanwormer 02-23-07, 03:13 PM	if the lady of pain denies all gods access to the city of sigil, does that extend to quasi-deities that have a divine rank of zero? yes/no and why, please. Yes. These are analogous to the "near-powers" that were the main point of the adventure Harbinger House. The story behind that adventure is that the Believers of the Source faction was looking for people on the verge of ascending to true godhood. They put them in a mental asylum called Harbinger House, which included an artifact (the focrux) that shielded all within from the Lady's gaze. In this way, the inmates could evolve to the equivalent of rank 0 quasideities without the Lady of Pain knowing. When the focrux is finally destroyed, the Lady of Pain banishes them from Sigil. She doesn't kill or maze them, however - she just makes it clear that it's time for them to go. but if powerful outsiders can enter why couldnt a quasi-deity that in many ways is of equal or lesser power. espcially if those quasi-deities are player characters with less than 20 HD. Because it has nothing to do with hit dice, it has to do with the presence of divine power - the capability of gaining power from mortal worship, and possibly the power to tap into the power that the Lady of Pain gains from Sigil itself. This potential is what is dangerous, not hit dice. I guess it depends on what you think a deity is. Is it just a set of bonuses and special abilities? Or does it represent an entirely new level of being, one more aware of the inner workings of the cosmos and capable of transforming reality, at least on divinely-morphic planes?
spectralphoenix 02-23-07, 04:14 PM	I think the other issue is sheer disruption potential - demigods tend to be out looking for worshippers, trying to gain more power, whatever. Even powerful outsiders are typically just there to do business and hang out. Those that do get disruptive get in touch with their flayed side. Now that I think about it, maybe it's a neutrality thing? As far as I know, nobody worships Shemeska or the various outsiders running around Sigil. But even Demigods try to be worshipped, or at least attract worshippers. If one started preaching and starting up a following personally in Sigil, there could be dire philosophical implications.
JoAT 02-23-07, 05:20 PM	The Lady can deny anyone passage, if she wishes, simply by virtue of causing the portal used not to work. On a similar level, she could allow anyone entry, even if they are deities. In practice, she has no real reason to deny anyone aside from deities, or allow any deities to enter. Of course, since her true motiviation is a mystery, she could do either or both, as the adventure warrants (and deities in Sigil, with her permission would make for an interesting adventure hook...)
Starmage21 02-23-07, 06:51 PM	okay here is my question. on the surface it seems obvious, but it sparked a discussion in my group. if the lady of pain denies all gods access to the city of sigil, does that extend to quasi-deities that have a divine rank of zero? yes/no and why, please. my first impulse was no. every description of her ive read says that she bars entry to all gods and divine beings. but if powerful outsiders can enter why couldnt a quasi-deity that in many ways is of equal or lesser power. espcially if those quasi-deities are player characters with less than 20 HD. If it were me running the game, Quasi-deties would indeed be barred. This brings up a question though. Her Serenity has let proxies go to and from the Cage unhindered, but there are proxies, and there are divine proxies(those who have received DvR 1 temporarily from their patron). Would The Lady allow those proxies into the city?
ripvanwormer 02-23-07, 07:36 PM	The most dangerous powers of a rank 1 demigod are the powers to create a divine realm in a divinely morphic plane, and the power to change small aspects of reality related to their portfolio. If divine proxies can do those things, they shouldn't be allowed in Sigil.
Millennium 02-23-07, 09:06 PM	The Lady of Pain can bar anyone, but the only people she seems to have just outright categorically banned are those with a divine rank (even zero). As long as you're not a deity you can be as powerful as you please and she won't care, but as soon as you pick up DR0 she gets paranoid.
sciborg2 02-24-07, 02:31 PM	If she can bar anyone, why the plague against the Indeps? Note that I'm willing to say that was a single designer taking too many liberties...
ripvanwormer 02-24-07, 02:43 PM	If she can bar anyone, why the plague against the Indeps? The Indeps were already in the city. The Lady evidently wanted to balance out the numbers in the various factions (far too many people chose to be Indeps rather than the more opinionated factions), and she didn't want to do so by as blatant a method as mazing or flaying them. Waiting for them to leave and not letting them back in again would have taken too long. It's also true that it's only hinted that the Lady was responsible for the plague. Maybe the plague had another source entirely.
Chanmanm8 03-01-07, 06:18 PM	If it were me running the game, Quasi-deties would indeed be barred. This brings up a question though. Her Serenity has let proxies go to and from the Cage unhindered, but there are proxies, and there are divine proxies(those who have received DvR 1 temporarily from their patron). Would The Lady allow those proxies into the city? It was said in the planescape supplements that proxies are barely tolerated, but allowed nonetheless. If they were to do anything to upset the lady, she could and would oust them (or put them in her mazes or flay them). Anyone remember the famous 2e campaign where the closes the Lady of Pain came to being overthrown was by Vecna? However, it was stated that for her own reasons she allowed that to happen, and "the party" defeats him in the end anyways. If I remember correctly, this was a trilogy of Campaigns...one of them was "Vecna Lives" and the last one was "Die Vecna Die". Basically, the party witnesses the events discussed briefly in 3.0 backgrounds: You witness vecna becoming a Lich (but not yet a god), the conflict with Kas who became a traitor due to the artifact Vecna made him, The involvment of the undead looking god Iuz who thwarted Vecna's of using the powerful Tovag Baragu, broke free after being imprisoned by Iuz at Citadel Cavitius, absorbed Iuz and became a Greater Deity...and then "broke" into Sigil (believed that the lady of pain allowed him in, for purposes of her own), and then thwarted by the party, Iuz is released/resurrected, Vecna becomes Lesser Deity, etc etc etc.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-01-07, 08:02 PM	I'd say that quasi-deities would be allowed in the Cage, but only on the 'one dumb thing' rule. I'd start the banning at DvR 1, "true gods". I'm fairly certain that there are several creatures that inhabited Sigil in PS which now have DvR 0 in 3E.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-01-07, 10:50 PM	I would add that gods have entered Sigil (outside of the frootloopy module that is DieVecnaDie). The deity Finder of the Faerunian pantheon managed to enter Sigil by first intentionally divesting himself of virtually all of his divine power, temporarily ceding all but the last scraps of his divinity to one of his proxies. He was able to enter Sigil to handle the business at hand that required his attention, but for the entire time that he was inside the city, he felt both uncomfortable and watched wherever he went.
sciborg2 03-02-07, 02:04 AM	There's also a lesser Abyssal Lord who somehow was accidentally summoned. I think he has the power of a lesser or demigod. So far, he hasn't brought any attention to himself...
Ohtar Turinson 03-02-07, 02:24 AM	There's also a lesser Abyssal Lord who somehow was accidentally summoned. I think he has the power of a lesser or demigod. So far, he hasn't brought any attention to himself... Yeah, Grundlethum's Automatic Scribe. Somehow a wizard accidentally summoned a "lesser abyssal power" into his machine when he was trying for an (erudite) elemental, and it's been causing a string of accidents in the area, but nothing wide spread yet.
ripvanwormer 03-02-07, 03:36 AM	The whole Abyssal lord isn't in there, just a small part of his influence. The important part of the story is that Grundlethum somehow magicked a hole in the Lady's defenses. The Abyssal lord shouldn't be able to influence Sigil without a portal at all. It shows the Lady isn't omnipotent (the focrux shows the same thing).
Voran 03-04-07, 09:41 AM	The Lady of Pain is certainly an odd duck. The ability to tell every other deity to 'f-off' when it comes to them entering her domain would suggest she's got an 'over deity' DvR of what...21 at least? Which just seems a little odd to me. I wonder if it would make better sense to say her powers are equal to or slightly less than a 'typical' Greater ranked deity, but her slavish, almost mentally unbalanced focus on creating a private domain either boosts her effective DvR in such cases, or due to the limited powerbase in terms of worshippers for other deities by people actually stuck in her realm, the effective DvR of a deity is reduced when they try to oppose her. To keep some sorta balance I would say it would be possible for a coalition of greater gods with like 18-20 DvR rankings, would be able to 1)Give the Lady of Pain a beatdown 2)Break into her world. Of course, the cost of such would be high, since they'd be assaulting an essentially fortified location. Ultimately the cost ends up making even greater gods realize its not really worth the effort. Woohoo! We can run around Sigil! Um...now what?
crimsonwolf 03-04-07, 12:53 PM	why cant she be worshipped again?
ripvanwormer 03-04-07, 03:12 PM	I wonder if it would make better sense to say her powers are equal to or slightly less than a 'typical' Greater ranked deity, but her slavish, almost mentally unbalanced focus on creating a private domain either boosts her effective DvR in such cases I don't think the ability to bar deities from using her portals requires any sort of divine rank. She's not physically engaging in a contest of power with them; she just controls portals with the property of choosing who can use them. Anybody who ruled Sigil could do the same, divine rank or no. Killing the greater deity Aoskar did require some power - it still doesn't necessarily mean she's a god herself, but it at least means she has access to an equivalent level of power, at least in that one instance. why cant she be worshipped again? She doesn't want to be; no one knows why not. Some believe that if too many people worshiped her, she might become a deity, and her city would reject her. This is a good argument that she doesn't actually have any divine rank at present.
crimsonwolf 03-04-07, 03:25 PM	... Xoastor, Historian known for his Unlikely Flights of Fancy "The Lady of Pain was Queen of the Bladelings. See, once upon a time the bladeling city Zoronor perched in the same place as Sigil. It was there for longer than anyone can remembers, but all this happened so long ago that nobody living remembers it either. The Lady ruled the bladelings, being one of them herself, only then her whole body was covered with blades. "Now Zoronor's spherical and it didn't balance that well up there on top of the Spire. In fact, it got knocked off. Some say it was by the Lady herself (the bladelings didn't make good servants), some claim it was a mighty storm (the likes of which have never been seen since), yet others say the perpetrator's long dead. Whoever it was, Zoronor got shunted from it's rightful place at the centre of the planes into the lowest layers of Acheron. "Anyway, the Lady rebuilt a city, this time better balanced, and abandoned the bladelings in Acheron. The dabus were her new children. She took more humanoid form, but was never able to rid herself of the blades around her neck. Maybe they're blades of office? "The darkest chant goes that Zoronor itself replaced an earlier city, which also fell off. That'd make Sigil the Third Incarnation of the City at the Centre; makes a blood wonder where the first one went." :D:D:D:D:D:D plot line here i come
Jaerom Darkwind 03-04-07, 06:03 PM	why cant she be worshipped again?All speculation on Her motives aside, what is very definitely known is that the Lady annihilates anyone who worships Her by flaying them with Her shadow (no saving throw). Worshiping Her Serenity is a very effective means of committing suicide.
sciborg2 03-04-07, 10:27 PM	Really, she serves a similar purpose to Ao, as in a balancing point that explains why the setting can logically -- as much as fantasy needs logic -- exist within the rules it sets. If Sigil had no protector then the fact that it goes everywhere would make it the prime jewel for every planar army to grasp -- recall that Sigil is meant as a means for 1st level characters to play on the planes. The designers could simply have barred the gods without giving any explanation, but decided to be creative. They've been hounded unnecessarily ever since.
crimsonwolf 03-05-07, 02:37 AM	could she block out Ao.......
Shemeska the Marauder 03-05-07, 03:02 AM	could she block out Ao....... Ao has no power outside of Toril, so yes.
Bob the Efreet 03-05-07, 03:52 AM	could she block out Ao....... She blocks out whoever she wants. She rarely restricts it to specific individuals, but She could keep out Remzag, orcish tribal shaman, if She for some reason decided to do so. why cant she be worshiped again? She'll kill you. It's like saying "why can't Demogorgon be hugged?" He can be. He'll just rape your face into a putrescent man-like goo as soon as you get near him.