stealing the divine power [Archive] - Wizards Community

stealing the divine power [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GiantBane
08-07-07, 03:29 PM everyone know that a deity has divine power and in some games you can steal said power by killing the deity if a rogue is high enough level would it be possible to steal that power without killing or even hurting said deity:confused:
RealSorceror
08-07-07, 05:12 PM No, an epic Rogue can't slieght of hand divine ranks, no matter how pimp they are.

Now, there are ways of taking (or recieving) divine ranks from a deity without harming it, but most of these are things you will have to make up. There aren't really any set rules.

For example, that same epic Rogue could perhaps Bluff a deity into "lending" him some divinty, but he would have to be truly amazing, and the god would have to be either dumb or desperate.
Taeldrin Laesrash
08-07-07, 05:38 PM I wouldn't attach rules to it, that's the stuff of legend. I'm sure there's a way to steal divinity (A classic and cool idea), but it'll be legendary and more complicated than a good Sleight of Hand check.
420
08-07-07, 06:03 PM There is a precedent for a deity voluntarily "stepping down" by giving out parts of their portfolio to mortals.

In the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting the old god of death, Jergal, split his portfolio up between three mortals, Myrkul, Bhaal and Bane. Jergal became a god of keeping records of the dead and he is still alive and well in the Realms.

Being powerful enough to destroy a deity may be all you need to convince that deity to give you some of their divine power.

-420
pale_enchantress
08-07-07, 06:20 PM actually the Ur-Priest is a class based on the idea that it's stealing power from the gods. Most people ignore the class flavor though seeing it as a great way to mystic theurge it.
tantric
08-07-07, 06:34 PM so, why exactly is the Ur-Priest evil? isn't that somewhat random and basically a values judgment?
HellflameArcanite
08-07-07, 07:58 PM Obtaining divine power, in any way, would undoubtedly require a long, epic quest, in many cases completely forgoing game mechanincs and just jumping into the uncreated. There is no possible way that any DM in his right mind would allow divine power to be granted with a slight of hand check, no matter how uber the modifier. It has to have a major RP component. Besides, divine ranks aren't exactly kept in pockets.
MCage
08-07-07, 09:07 PM Besides, divine ranks aren't exactly kept in pockets.

I keep mine in my shoe, they never check the shoe.
RealSorceror
08-08-07, 05:02 PM so, why exactly is the Ur-Priest evil? isn't that somewhat random and basically a values judgment?
I was thinking the same thing. I mean, isn't the Ur-Preist also stealing from the evil gods as well? And since he is siphoning power from all the gods, he is technically using less divine power than a true Cleric. That can't be much different than a Cleric who follows an ideal rather than a god.
I think you can justify a simple "non-good" alighnment rather than full blown evil.
420
08-08-07, 05:16 PM I believe the original poster meant "stealing divine power" as in killing a deity and taking their place or gaining a divine rank (from Deities and Demigods) by taking it from a deity.

The Ur-Priest simply learns to channel divine energy that is meant for another cleric to power their spells.

-420
Thanael
08-09-07, 01:02 PM From Dungeon #150:

The Godtrap, by F. Wesley Schneider
Zagig Yragerne built the original Godtrap, designed to contain nine demigods and use them to let him become a deity himself. Since then, many others have created their own, lesser versions, one of which is described here.
Grithfang
08-09-07, 01:58 PM Though not in the rules as written, you can take various items (like relics) and extrapolate that there are greater relics and divine relics. It then may be possible to steal a divine relic and extract the divine spark from it (The gods invest their own items with a very tiny piece of their divinity).

Think along the lines of the god-fire stolen from the Greek gods by Prometheus to bring fire to humanity. It would be something to work out with your DM.
Millennium
08-10-07, 10:34 AM It depends on the DM, but in most such games it wouldn't really depend on the rogue's level. Except in the most unstable pantheons, it takes more than a few Sleight of Hand checks to steal a god's power. It's a quest in and of itself, and while a high-level rogue might be able to take it, so might anyone else.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GiantBane 08-07-07, 03:29 PM	everyone know that a deity has divine power and in some games you can steal said power by killing the deity if a rogue is high enough level would it be possible to steal that power without killing or even hurting said deity:confused:
RealSorceror 08-07-07, 05:12 PM	No, an epic Rogue can't slieght of hand divine ranks, no matter how pimp they are. Now, there are ways of taking (or recieving) divine ranks from a deity without harming it, but most of these are things you will have to make up. There aren't really any set rules. For example, that same epic Rogue could perhaps Bluff a deity into "lending" him some divinty, but he would have to be truly amazing, and the god would have to be either dumb or desperate.
Taeldrin Laesrash 08-07-07, 05:38 PM	I wouldn't attach rules to it, that's the stuff of legend. I'm sure there's a way to steal divinity (A classic and cool idea), but it'll be legendary and more complicated than a good Sleight of Hand check.
420 08-07-07, 06:03 PM	There is a precedent for a deity voluntarily "stepping down" by giving out parts of their portfolio to mortals. In the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting the old god of death, Jergal, split his portfolio up between three mortals, Myrkul, Bhaal and Bane. Jergal became a god of keeping records of the dead and he is still alive and well in the Realms. Being powerful enough to destroy a deity may be all you need to convince that deity to give you some of their divine power. -420
pale_enchantress 08-07-07, 06:20 PM	actually the Ur-Priest is a class based on the idea that it's stealing power from the gods. Most people ignore the class flavor though seeing it as a great way to mystic theurge it.
tantric 08-07-07, 06:34 PM	so, why exactly is the Ur-Priest evil? isn't that somewhat random and basically a values judgment?
HellflameArcanite 08-07-07, 07:58 PM	Obtaining divine power, in any way, would undoubtedly require a long, epic quest, in many cases completely forgoing game mechanincs and just jumping into the uncreated. There is no possible way that any DM in his right mind would allow divine power to be granted with a slight of hand check, no matter how uber the modifier. It has to have a major RP component. Besides, divine ranks aren't exactly kept in pockets.
MCage 08-07-07, 09:07 PM	Besides, divine ranks aren't exactly kept in pockets. I keep mine in my shoe, they never check the shoe.
RealSorceror 08-08-07, 05:02 PM	so, why exactly is the Ur-Priest evil? isn't that somewhat random and basically a values judgment? I was thinking the same thing. I mean, isn't the Ur-Preist also stealing from the evil gods as well? And since he is siphoning power from all the gods, he is technically using less divine power than a true Cleric. That can't be much different than a Cleric who follows an ideal rather than a god. I think you can justify a simple "non-good" alighnment rather than full blown evil.
420 08-08-07, 05:16 PM	I believe the original poster meant "stealing divine power" as in killing a deity and taking their place or gaining a divine rank (from Deities and Demigods) by taking it from a deity. The Ur-Priest simply learns to channel divine energy that is meant for another cleric to power their spells. -420
Thanael 08-09-07, 01:02 PM	From Dungeon #150: The Godtrap, by F. Wesley Schneider Zagig Yragerne built the original Godtrap, designed to contain nine demigods and use them to let him become a deity himself. Since then, many others have created their own, lesser versions, one of which is described here.
Grithfang 08-09-07, 01:58 PM	Though not in the rules as written, you can take various items (like relics) and extrapolate that there are greater relics and divine relics. It then may be possible to steal a divine relic and extract the divine spark from it (The gods invest their own items with a very tiny piece of their divinity). Think along the lines of the god-fire stolen from the Greek gods by Prometheus to bring fire to humanity. It would be something to work out with your DM.
Millennium 08-10-07, 10:34 AM	It depends on the DM, but in most such games it wouldn't really depend on the rogue's level. Except in the most unstable pantheons, it takes more than a few Sleight of Hand checks to steal a god's power. It's a quest in and of itself, and while a high-level rogue might be able to take it, so might anyone else.