Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-03-07, 05:26 PM	I got kind of bored a few days ago and thought. "All of these gods are neat. But why is Vecna so cool (to me)? Probably because he was mortal and became a god by his own power. And because theres a backstory too it that loosely involves lopping off a hand and an eye (and a head, if your PCs are gullable). Wouldn't it be neat to have a pantheon that was composed entirely of mortals that became gods by lopping off a hand a gouging out an eye." (The response to this question was an unequivocal yes!) I also wanted to go the way of the Roman Pantheon. Gods do not compete with each other. There is only one water god, and its ok if a priest of the fire god prays to the water god for water. Its even expected (only an idiot would try to drink fire). I've been thinking about assigning the different clerical spells to different deities, so the player knows "who they're asking a favor from" (because big favors can always be called in.) So here's my idea for a pantheon that I'd like to toss into a campaign world and see how it floats. All the gods were once mortal. The most primal gods were mortals when the world was young and the last songs of creation were being sung (by who? Who knows, great plot device!). Gods of the elements and nature. Gods of hunger and plenty, birth and death, safety and danger. The most primal aspects of survival were people who, upon hearing the words of creation, performed a sacred (profane?) ritual to give themselves power. How to become a god in 3 easy steps (4, depending). Step 0: Learn about these 3 easy steps. Step 1: Interchangable with step 2. Cut off one hand to make room for your Divine Hand. Step 2: Interchangable with step 1. Cut out one eye to make room for your Divine Eye. Step 3: (this one's a doozy) Speak the last songs of creation and combine your name with the aspect of the world you wish to preside over. Step 4: Bask in deificity (godliness). People who study language will be shocked to discover that all languages have the same term for things like Fire or Ocean. Working Production Pantheon. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/storm_gallery/90757.jpg Swi riding a wave. Swi, Goddess of the Sea: Alive since the beginning of the world, Swi was a human mortal. She lived on the shore of one of the great oceans. She swam the waters of that ocean, fishing for food and sleeping on the rocks of the shore. Eventually Swi built a raft that she tethered to shore so she could sleep to the gentle rocking of the waves. Having lived through the beginning of the world, Swi heard and knew the last songs of creation (forgotten in modern times). Swi was not only light and playful woman. She was ambitious as well and as she flickered through the water she wondered over the words of creation. Surely her voice could get just as loud as any other voice. If she were to change the words of creation, change them such that they made her forever powerful, forever young, and forever with the sea, it would take little else! Reasoning this, Swi cut her raft loose and drifted over the waters, kicking with her furious feet to power it. She dove to the water for fish and drank the ocean for thirst (this was a fresh water ocean). She passed many islands, but they were so low and small, she was sure no one would hear her from there. Finally she paddled her way into what we now call the Dragon's Tongue. Swi was amazed by the shapes and colors, nothing like the ugly fish at her shore. There were also frightening things there too, powerful gray shapes that cut through the water with frightening teeth, large as her raft. She floated over the tongue and into the Dragon's Mouth. Swi marveled at the towering cliffs and great mountains. Surely from here people would hear her. At the foot of the mountains, Swi thought again over the words of creation. She would be useless as a goddess if she had to look with her eyes and touch with her hands. With terrific determination, she dove for a shell from the sea floor and gouged out her eye with it. One of the monsterous gray sharks smelled the blood, and swam to her. She thrust out her hand and it bit it off. Swi scrambled into the shallows and onto shore. Bleeding to death, she climbed the steep mountain wall to the top of the Dragon's Horn. A powerful wind blew as she heard the last word of creation spoken. In time she recited the last words and merged her own with the word that made water. Swi fell from the mountain top, unconsious from bloodloss, and as she struck the water below she disappeared, her rags floating away on the tide. Swi has reigned over the sea since the begging of the world. She is long, thin, and pale. Her hair is waxy and green like kelp and her eyes are large and dilated. She wears a silvery dress of fish scales and a necklace of shark teeth. In her empty socket is a perfect blue pearl that shines even in the deepest depths. Her stump is capped with vibrant coral bracer that changes color with the tide. Swi's favored weapon is a long spear (made of coral) and she is Chaotic Neutral. Swi is not a demanding Goddess, she regularily rewards creatures that do not worship her at all. Because she is responsible for all water, it is also Swi that makes the rain come (in conjunction with the god of winds and air). Swi is the oldest, and arguably most powerful, deity in the campaign. Despite her fun and kind nature, she is also tempermental as (for lack of a better word) the sea. Artifact, The Ocean's Drape: The original clothes which Swi wore when she ascended into deific status. They are rumored to float through the ocean from the surface down to the deepest depths. They are imbued with part of Swi's power, and as such offer great strength. The garmets allow creatures to breath in water and in the air as Swi once did. Any creature wearing these has a move speed of 30 (unless greater) on land and swim speed of 30 (unless greater). They can use Create Water, Control Water, at will and Summon Monster (Water elementals only) 1/day. If the wearer of the garment is on a vessel at sea, they can force it to move as though affected by a strong wind, even if no wind is blowing. The clothes also offer a frost and Fire Resistance 15 due to Swi's antagonistic relationship with Borel and friendship with Roosh. If the wearer of the clothes ever takes frost damage the clothes stop working for 1d4 hours. Swi's raft: The raft which Swi lived in and floated over the ocean with when she was mortal. This exceptional sea craft flies over, atop, and under the water at breakneck speed. The raft is 10ftx10ft and can comfortably fit 2, but can support any weight while on water. Any creatures on the boat can breath water as well as air and visa versa. The boat can hover 5ft above, rest atop, or dive below any liquid. Any hazardous effects caused by the liquid (acid, extreme heat, poison) do not affect those on the raft. The boat moves cuts through the water moving 10 miles per hour (2400 miles per day). At the beginning and end of each day enough fresh fish to feed 2 medium sized creatures leap onto the deck to feed the crew (cooking them may be a challenge). Swi's Raft is not all fun and games. Using the raft requires sea legs capable of staying on. A balance check DC 15 must be made each hour or be dumped into the water and attacked by a medium sized shark. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MotP/Paraelementals.jpg Roosh threatening a minion of Borel Roosh, the Goddess of Fire: Roosh was also alive when the last songs of creation were being sung (most of the more primal deities were). She lived amongst the rocky slopes of a volcanic island chain. The islands were large and she lived off the many berries and fruit trees that grew there. Roosh outwitted predators and prey with masterful climbing and leaping from rock to rock and ledge to ledge. Her greatest danger were the wyverns, flying lizards that made homes near the bubbling volcano. Roosh slept in the cooled lava tunnels where it was always warm at night. Roosh was wild and chaotic. Her lifestyle lent itself to fleeting sudden actions to avoid magma boil ups and collapsing sink holes. Roosh did not immediately think of merging herself with fire when she listened to the last songs of creation. She spent most of her time either eating or hiding from Wyverns. She cooked any meat that she ate over the exceptionally hot lava tunnels (from which molten magma still flowed). But the dangerous flying serpents caused her much greif and frustration. In the middle years of her life, she witness a magnificent sight. One day while watching a wyvern from her cave she saw it become trapped in a magma boil-up. The molten lava spewed over the lizard, consuming it completely. The depserate and painful cries of the beast told Roosh that something did prey on the creatures. When the boil-up subsided there was nothing but a charred, partial skeleton. Roosh crept down to the creature and stole one of its razor sharp teeth. The tooth made a useful knife for a while, but after being harried by the flying serpents for another month, Roosh thought back to the last songs of creation that had been sung. Surely, surely she could sing them, change them to make herself stronger than the wyverns. Reasoning the same as Swi had, Roosh climbed to the top of the volcano in the middle of the island. There she sought out a magma flow and thrust her clenched fist into it. On top of the mountain she took the wyvern tooth and cut out her eye. Screaming at the top over he lungs, she merged the word that created fire with her own name. The volcano boiled up and erupted, consuming her body. Roosh opened her eyes to find herself standing next to Swi, looking down on the world. Roosh had changed, her skin was charred and black and beneath it crackled molten lava. A steady stream of magma poured from her eye flowed over her chest. Roosh's favored weapon is a censer in which smolders lava from the Roosh's volcano (flail). Roosh is Chaotic Neutral Swi and Roosh have been exceptional friends since. Roosh uses her fire to float Swi wherever she wants to go, and Swi calms Roosh down when her temper flairs. It is largely because of Swi that there are any Wyverns left in the world. But Swi pointed out to Roosh that without the Wyvern tooth, she never would have become a goddess. Roosh differs from Swi in that she demands repeated sacrifices. Although she prefers the sacrifice of Wyverns (which are usually offered up by her draconic worshippers) she considers every piece of wood or coal burned to be a sacrifice to her. Roosh is also not as fickle as Swi, she does not turn on her worshippers unless they become careless or disrespectful. Artifact: Roosh's Tooth The wyvern dagger that Roosh cut out her eye with was not consumed in the volcano. It remained on the material world as a part of Roosh. The dagger looks like a glassy obsideon wyvern tooth dripping with lava and functions as a +4 Wyvern Bane Dagger. More importantly, on each strike it deals an additional 3d6 fire damage and leaves the target with a lingering fire that burns for 1d4 fire damage until put out. Because the dagger is part of the essence of the Goddess of Fire it bypasses fire resistance and immunity. The dagger can also light mundane objects on fire and act as a torch. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ros_gallery/83293.jpg Oggrigar surveys another swath of land Oggrigar, the God of Earth and Stone: Oggrigar was one of the first Ogres in the world. He was unusual, born with a shapely head and curious, mottled body. He hunted and gathered alone, as ogres are wont to do and was alive when the last songs of creation were being sung. Oggrigar hunted wherever the game was, preying on a single herd until he was sated, which generally took a great deal. He would chase them through mountains and hills, forests and plains until he had been filled. Oggrigar also loved to swim. He found the water cool and inviting. His chases had not yet lead him to the ocean though, so he had never seen the full breadth of Swi. During his chase of a bear for food he was wounded painfully and lost his hand. He slew the bear with a crude speak, but the disfigurement made hunting more difficult. Instead of chasing game he became a patient stalker. He would drench himself in water to hide his scent and wait amongst the stones or in holes or caves until he could spring upon his prey. This, for an ogre, was very potent thinking (and possible the first ogre that took regular baths). Oggrigar hear Swi's voice lift through the world and become one with the ocean. He thought of this (as much as he could) and wished jealously to possess Swi, this embodiment of water. Perhaps the Ogre mind is just simple enough to think of such a thought, but after a year of off and on thinking, Oggrigar decided that all the lakes and rivers he had seen were bounded on all sides by the earth. Even when he dove to their greatest depths he saw stone and mud. This he saw as his way to possession of Swi! Oggrigar pulled himself up the mountainous cliffs to the top of the mountain we call the dragon's eye. There he crudely cut out his eye with a stone and called into the wind, merging his name with the what had been the first word of creation, the word that made the earth. He crumbled into rubble and found himself standing before Roosh and Swi. But now that he was the earth, he felt something strange. He looked down and realized that all the land was smothered or surrounded by water. Swi smiled, laughing at this realization, and welcomed the brutish ogre into the realm of the gods. Oggrigar closed his eyes and felt the fire of Roosh's volcanoes and the coolness of Swi's water all around the earth. Over time, Oggrigar has become more than a stupid ogre. He is one of the craftiest gods, and one of the most powerful. He stands nine feet tall with a diamond in his empty socket. The hand that the bear had taken was replaced by a powerful hand of stone. Oggrigar does not need his divine hand as much as other gods, because being the earth everything is within his reach. Oggrigar has a spear, which he used as an ogre to throw and kill prey, and thus his favorite weapon is a short spear. Oggrigar is Lawful Neutral. He constantly tries to fence Swi and Roosh in. Whenever they come to conflict he wins the direct battle, while Roosh and Swi outmaneuver him in a dozen different places. Oggrigar is the unofficial husband of Swi, and lays the most claim to her amongst the gods. As a god, Oggrigar is patient and wise. He will not tolerate chaos, and keeps his earth in a firm, orderly manner. Oggrigar does make exceptions, especially for the priests of Swi and Roosh. It was Oggrigar the first suggested that the gods have rules, which Swi and Roosh agreed to (and sometimes break). To his followers Oggrigar is protective and firm. He demands that wherever they go, they carry a piece of him so that even in the cities paved with cut stone he will be with them. Oggrigar still retains his brutish nature, and so his wrath (when raised) is unrelenting and fierce. He has leveled a city with 3 full days of constant earthquake and chasm, few deities actually seek to oppose him. Even less would do so openly. Artifact: Oggrigar's Stones: Scattered throughout the earth are parts of Oggrigar, the rubble that his body collapsed into when he became a god. They are filled with mighty power to control the earth. Any possessor of such a stone can use any spell with the [Earth] descriptor at will. Oggrigar's stones carry a heavy burden though. Touching the body of Oggrigar is a difficult thing to perform. The stone will reactively try to turn its user to stone each time it is used, Fort Save DC 13 +spell level +1 per use. This petrification is more than the normal kind. No creature is immune to it. The stone remembers who has used it, and the DC never reduces. Any spell that would normally undo petrification, instead grants the stoned creature another save. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fb_gallery/83583.jpg Borel consumes lake with ice. Borel, the Goddess of Ice and Snow: Borel lived in the days when the last songs of creation were echoing softly and Borel lived with her village at the coastal foot of a great mountain range. Inside the mountain range, the echoes of the words were still audible, and it was there that Borel first learned the last songs of creation. In her village she, like the other women, were builders and farmers while the men went out into the sea and fished. At night she stood with the rest of the wives at in the sandy beach with a torch to help guide their husbands home. One night, there was a great swell rose up in the water. Most of the men were far enough out from the sea that they rolled over it but Borel's husband was not. He was caught up in the wave and his tiny raft capsized. He has tossed and battered, and drowned before the wave hit the shore. His dead body smashed into the coast where Borel could see it, before being sucked back into the ocean by the ebbing wave. Borel was livid. She ran, screaming, into the mountains, where she discovered ice. Borel marveled at this thing called ice, in which Swi was trapped, her precious water unable to move. Borel swore that she would lock Swi away forever for taking her husband. Borel listened to the echoing words and uncovered her hand, pressing it against the icy cap of the mountain where it got colder and colder until the frostbitten hand froze off. Then she took an icicle and gouged out an eye. Borel stumbled to the top of the mountain and merged her name with the cold and became a Goddess. She was caught up in a terrible maelstrom, in which only an icy sculpture of a woman remained. Borel arrived amongst the Gods and Goddesses, stunned by what had passed. Snow had banked in her empty socket and an icy hand covered her stump. The gods moved to welcome her, and when she saw Swi she attacked. She froze Swi and scrambled away into the godly regions. Then, on the world below, the Ice Age began. Roosh pursued the wild goddess. Although Borel erected walls of ice and mounds of snow, Roosh plowed on towards the Goddess. When she caught Borel she deal her a deafening blow. Roosh grabbed Swi and evaporated her into the air. Free, Swi fled back amongst the Gods, where she made her oceans water again. Roosh beat Borel with her flail until the icy goddess began to melt. Horrified, Borel dove onto the top of the world, and in the midst of the ocean there created a great plane of ice and snow. Borel is a harsh god. Her minions and priests can freeze water, and so are forbidden from drinking unfrozen liquids. She is unforgiving, but supportive of those who share her mad hate. She has to minions, named Ice and Snow respectively. Women that also lost their husbands or children to the ocean. Borel throws great icicles at any who oppose her. These terrible icicles freeze anything they touch. Her favorite weapon is the Javelin. Borel is Neutral Evil. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dd_gallery/dd5/Dennari_p212.jpg Jimath, dressed to impress Oggrigar Jimath, the Goddess of Strength: Jimath was born to the Pohtuk tribes that inhabited the peninsula east of the rose waters. Their particular people, in the dawns of time, had learned to use magic before tools. As such they evolved to use magic, having little need for the most basic tools. There were mules born to the Pohtuk, just as magical prodigies can be born to any other race. Jimath, like so many other mules, was born devoid of the ability to use magic, as mules tend to be, she was physically stronger than any magician in Pohtuk. Her brute strength was not enough to overcome even some of the most simple spells and thus she was cast aside into one of the many unmagical roles that mules perform. Jimath became a blacksmith. In her time, the last songs of creation had long been sung and their echoes had died out of the world. In response to her treatment, Jimath became a bully. She could intimidate the younger and weaker mages, and she forced them to do research for her. She wanted a way to lord her strength over the rest of the Pohtuk. The young researchers brought her many ideas, but they all involved magic, something she wanted no part in. Then one day, a young boy deep in the libraries of the Pohtuk discovered the last songs of creation. He had a weakness for Jimath (something the other children did not have) despite her bullying. As such, he brought her the book that listed the last song of creation, and pointed out to her that if she sung her name instead of strength, she could become the strongest thing alive. They proceeded to read through the rituals of all the gods that had gone before. So on night he and Jimath stole away to the mountains where she lopped of her own hand with a single blow and pulled out her eye with her own fingers. When she sang her name into the last song of creation she began to grow. Her body bulged and rippled and far below the boy disappeared from sight. Jimath eventually stepped up into the home of the gods and surveyed those around her. From her deific home she laughed haughtily at the other gods, challenging them to a game of strength for rulership. Though she defeated most of them, Swi, Roosh, and Oggrigar were untamed. She could never get a hold of Swi or Roosh, whose forms became insubstantial in her hands. And as for Oggrigar, Jimath may be an unstoppable force, but Oggrigar remained an immovable object. They never fought, because Jimath could not beat Swi or Roosh, but mortals often question, "what would happen if Jimath punched Oggrigar?" This would likely never happen as, perhaps due to his sheer strength, Jimath is quite enamored of Oggrigar (ogre or not). She offers more support to his followers than to other gods, and will hammer anyone that has an issue with it. Jimath is twenty feet tall and ripples with muscle. Her sheer mass makes her look like a dwarf in proportion, when she is actually a predecessor of the elves. Like Oggrigar, her stump is covered with a hand shape. Unlike Oggrigar this is a removable and unusual iron gauntlet which she dons when she desires to personally involve herself with something. When she wants to utilize her divine powers she removes the gauntlet. Being a cap for all her divine power, her mailed hand is much stronger than the other hand, quite likely stronger than anything else in the world. Jimath's favored weapon is a heavy wood and stone maul that she traded her own masterfully worked spear to Oggrigar for. Jimath is True Neutral, not by philosiphy but by apathy. She cares little for the tirades of the holy and profane nor the lawful and chaotic. She respects the strongest warriors on both sides and will bless them often. As a deity, Jimath requires work and toil from her servants. You won't find a decadent high priest of Jimath sitting on a divan. Indeed, the clergy of Jimath is loosely knit and requires no formal teaching. Its easy enough to discern Jimath's doctrine, "The strong survive". Non-worshippers have a love-hate relationship with Jimath's followers (and by extension, Jimath herself). The clergy of Jimath always works harder and longer than anyone else, but they are also more destructive in their fights and tussels. While they stand against any invader it is only to prove their own strength and they look down on the weak. Services and sermons given by the clergy of Jimath are generally short, to the point, and involve a blunt instrument. Jimath answers the prayers of strong warriors, hard-working laborers, and good smiths (she will generally answer the prayers of anyone who is strong and self-reliant). She takes issue with weaklings and magicians of all sorts. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_95.jpghttp://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86406.jpg The petty god of caravans evades another blow Iterman, The God of Caravans/The Faceless God of Theives: Iterman was born in a recent time, after cities had become large enough to make countries and merchants and nobles began to be rich beyond compare. He was a young merchant with a penchant for weighting his scales. He was caught a few times but only quit his merchant life after he was caught cheating a duke in disguise. Iterman had used his silver tongue to get out of sticky situations before, but the duke would have none of it. Iterman was sentenced to have his right hand cut off. He eluded the guards with his silvered tongue and hide from the duke for the better part of a year, moving houses, changing his clothes and story with every breaking day. Weary of the chase, Iterman decided it had to end. He could not match swords with the duke, nor could he see a way to trick or fool him, and Iterman had nowhere to go outside the city. Lying in a freezing alley one night Iterman shuffled to the chapel of Oggrigar. He lay under the blanket the priests provided and thought carefully. Oggrigar was indeed the patron deity of the city, the clergy itself was of equal voice to the duke. Iterman decided that night that he would steal the artifact that rest atop the altar and plant it on the duke. Iterman slid carefully through the halls, cautious not to wake a soul. He had, a year ago, provided the chapel with a trick cloth that would trigger an alarm if the Oggrigar Stone was lifted from it and so as he rolled the stone towards him he took a handfull of dirt and weighed the cloth down. With the stone stolen, Iterman need only plant it on the duke, more easly said than done. He shambled like a beggar to the duke's manor where many beggars begged. There he moaned and howled so loud that a guard came to shut him up. But with his sly tongue Iterman convinced the guard to allow him in to eat. There he unlatched a kitchen window and stole back later in the night. When he reached the duke's throne he planted the Oggrigar Stone beneath the chair cushion and fled. In the town he started a rumor that the duke had ordered the stone stolen, and hidden beneath his throne. Guards loyal to the gods searched the throne and found the stone. The duke was dethroned by a usurper and hung. That was the first crime of Iterman. His career led him through many more thefts and he became widely known as the greatest thief the world had known. And once when a wizard caught Iterman in his tower, the greatest thief the world had known was forced to flee. He escaped notice into the mountains where he came upon a towered temple devoted to Roosh. He worked among the fire priests, gained trust within their ranks, and in time stole the secret writings from the beginning of Roosh. When Iterman realized what incredible ritual he had uncovered he slipped up to the top of the mountains where with his own tools he severed his hand (the punishment he had been scheduled for many years ago) and cut out his eye. When he sang the last songs of creation he lied and made himself the God of Caravans, a simple deity, a minor deity, completely unworth note from any other god. The song of creation knew though, and so despite his appearance, the faceless god of thieves was born. Masquerading before all the other gods, Iterman arrived in shining armor, armed with a rapier and a poinard as if to fend off bandits. He lied to the faces of all the other gods. Only Roosh suspected anything was amis, but Iterman would never remove his gleaming helm. Iterman, God of Caravans, stands tall in golden gleaming armor with a fluttering crimson cape. He carries his rapier and poinard with confidence and demands almost nothing of his worshippers, save a small sacrifice now and again. The Faceless God of Thieves, whose face is known by neither god nor mortal, appears as any number of creatures with any number of faces that are always mostly hidden behind a mask.
sciborg3 12-03-07, 05:46 PM	I really like this! - but would you consider different mutilations rather than just a hand and an eye. I do like the idea of losing an eye, which goes all the way back to Odin sacrificing an eye to drink from the well of Mimir. But rather than a hand I can see other body parts such as legs, a second eye, a tongue all depending in part on what the god's porfolio is. Again - great idea. 29: And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30: And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matthew, Chapter 5
Bloodsoul 12-04-07, 02:06 AM	I thought the only reason Vecna lost his hand and eye was because of his battle with Kas? ¬_¬ If the rumours of St. Cuthbert's ascension were true, he didn't appear to lose any body parts (although his sense of humour might be another thing).
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-04-07, 09:01 AM	I was almost sure that Vecna lost them in a ritual, but since I don't have the books here I won't know til I get home from work. I don't think the SRD has that flavor text.
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-04-07, 10:01 AM	Apparently Vecna has lost his left eye and hand a number of times. The first was to Pholtus, then to Kas. Never in a ritual. Thus, I am declaring, that I am a genius that came up with this idea entirely on his own despite what other people may falsely think. All hail the brain! HOOAH!
Thanael 12-04-07, 12:36 PM	History of Vecna 101 (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=4930701&postcount=40)
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-06-07, 02:30 PM	I'll admit, I'm not overly concerned with the actual story of Vecna (who may not even appear in this pantheon, or may with a wildly different history). Rather, the idea of a one-handed, one-eyed god inspired the idea that there is a set ritual that anyone can use to become a deity, but is difficult and prohibitive. The reason that the subject must know the last words of creation makes it 1)Hard and 2) Epic.
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-06-07, 03:09 PM	I've added Roosh, the Goddess of fire. I'll expound on the relationships between the pantheon later on, as it progresses.
meigin 12-06-07, 10:05 PM	It's interesting to note that Odin sacrificed his eye to drink from Mimir's spring for wisdom of the ages, and Tyr sacrificed his hand in the fenrir's mouth as he was confined by the other gods. These instances were in efect tests of the gods and their deific station, I don't think it's mere co-incidence that Vecna in D&D plot after the battle with Kas looses these same apetures and acheives demi-god status. On a side note, anyone else see the correlation between Vecna / Kas and Palpatine / Vader? Anyway, I think being the obviously learned person you are if you looked deeply into these exampes, and sure (can't think of any right now) that there are examples similar to the Norse in other cultures.
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-07-07, 09:09 AM	What I remember from norse mythology is scant and shady. I knew of Tyr's hand (and how Fenrir was finally bound with magical gnomish ribbons), but I don't (didn't) know why Odin had only one eye (I remember his two crows). I do remember that he hung from the tree for 3 or 4 days or something as well. I also remember that one of the gods was going to get killed by Loki's treachery, at which point everything else comes undone and Ragnarok begins. Thor and the serpent, Fenrir and the sun, Frost Giants, etc, etc. I remember some of the relationships too, although not completely. And a few stories about drunken Thor (stealing cauldrons, fishing for whales, separating frost giants from their daughters, etc.) I was deriving more, I think, from the Vecna story than the norse myths. I will say however that I agree, it is very interesting that Odin gave up an eye and Tyr sacrificed his hand. Two "disabled" gods as it were. I was thinking that perhaps all the gods would have to sacrifice their left hand and left eye, and thus the term "left handed god" could be a common phrase for either an impotent god or person.
meigin 12-08-07, 01:05 AM	yeah, that could work, as left handed people once upon a time were known as sinister (of the devil - but could be coined for divine), and right handed people were referred to as dexter. But the attachment note here is that the right hand (hand of justice) remains. anyway, to clear this up a little, you might say that the sacrifice of the sinister (left) is the path to the divine, in leaving only the hand of justice (divinity) remaining? does that fit in with your goals?
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-08-07, 02:17 AM	Well, I had rather decided that a mortal hand must be sacrificed for the divine hand to have space. Essentially, in order to divinely effect change without being physically present. The eye was also to sacrifice a mortal eye for a divine eye. The ability to discern and see what cannot normally be done (omnipresence). As for the left being the sinister, I'd rather gone with the hand and eye that Vecna was missing, out of default really. I didn't know anything about sinister or dexter sides of the body. But its an interesting twist. I don't really think it fits though, because not all of these gods will be good (god of Ice and Snow, Borel, for example. Nasty sort him).
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-09-07, 10:46 AM	I've added Borel, cruel opponent to Swi and vicious enemy of Roosh. Her main goal (honestly) is to freeze the entire ocean. Roosh and Swi generally prove too much for her. Also added Oggrigar, the god of earth and stone, who happens to be an Ogre.
meigin 12-11-07, 12:25 AM	I like Borel, but think I've always liked the snow and ice deities. This is starting to get good, are there any other deities on the way?
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-11-07, 08:05 AM	Yes, but slower. I had already worked up stories and information about Swi, Roosh, Borel, and Jimath. I haven't finished Jimath, and I have the stories of the Faceless God of Thieves and Mulhain, the Fertility God (whose story I probably can't put on the non-mature boards).
Johnathan_Vagabond 12-11-07, 01:35 PM	I've added the last bits about Jimath and the story of the faceless god of theives (also the god of caravans, a bit of a conflict of interests mayhap?) I'm a little shakey with the Deific status of the Faceless God of Theives, but I decided to take my idea and run with it. The idea is that even his fellow gods do not know the identity of the Faceless God of Theives, but rather, he masquerades as a different, less important god.