The Lady of Pain. [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Lady of Pain. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Infinitum
03-22-07, 09:54 PM What's your opinion, do you think that, IF SHE/HE CHOSE TO, the Lady of Pain could stop the Blood War?

Post your thoughts.
Shadowmind64
03-22-07, 10:08 PM Doubtfull. The lady of pain doesnt leave Sigil, which is her seat of untimate power. In fact, she probably doesnt give a hoot about the blood war. So, id say no, but if that is a plotline you would like to follow, go for it. :)
Frater_95
03-22-07, 10:37 PM Yeah, I kind of see her as an aspect of Sigil, and the plane in general. I doubt she would have any interest in it, one way or the other.
Shemeska the Marauder
03-23-07, 12:00 AM It entirely depends on how you define her.

In the context of my own campaign, it's... maybe... but it's an open question of if she cares.
TheOinodaemon
03-23-07, 12:07 AM Off hand...no. But thats my campaign, where the Blood War is just another facet of creation, like oxygen or people. I think the Lady of Rain (yes the Lady of Rain, step sister to the Lady of Pain)...AHEM Lady of PAIN is a physical manifestation of Sigil's nuetrality amongst the planes and powers.
castlemike
03-23-07, 12:35 AM No I figure she is either the equivalent of a LN Greater Power or an Over Power but not the only one.

Second why would she want to? How would it benefit her?

Besides all those Fiends need something to focus on.

What would those Fiends focus on if they didn't have the Blood War to occupy their time?
Mecha_Pope
03-23-07, 12:45 AM What would those Fiends focus on if they didn't have the Blood War to occupy their time?

Embroidery. Hellish embroidery of the Pit. Knitwork so blashphemous and foul, to look upon it's demonic lace-work is to have one's soul drained from one's body, to be forever traped in the Abyssal Fabric, there to writhe in enternal agony, untill so corrupt that one is doomed to join the ranks of the Manes, and slave away to the whims of the extra-planer powers of Evil, till time's end.
castlemike
03-23-07, 01:20 AM And I was thinking the Fiends would start invading other planes like the prime material plane if there was No Blood War.
Dunamin
03-23-07, 01:29 AM Embroidery. Hellish embroidery of the Pit. Knitwork so blashphemous and foul, to look upon it's demonic lace-work is to have one's soul drained from one's body, to be forever traped in the Abyssal Fabric, there to writhe in enternal agony, untill so corrupt that one is doomed to join the ranks of the Manes, and slave away to the whims of the extra-planer powers of Evil, till time's end.
... and the Yugoloths will be pulling all the strings!

Oh, and related to the topic at hand, I agree with the majority. She has never shown interest in the Blood War, so I see no reason she'd exert influence there, assuming she even can.
Mith_The_Godling
03-23-07, 10:00 AM One would think she would want to avoid a fight with Asmodeus as long as possible.>>
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
03-23-07, 04:12 PM What would those Fiends focus on if they didn't have the Blood War to occupy their time?

Killing every single celestial in the entire multiverse.
castlemike
03-23-07, 04:24 PM Killing every single celestial in the entire multiverse.

Excellent Point the Prime plane missions would probably be trainging grounds for the lower minions.
Kain Darkwind
03-23-07, 05:00 PM I don't think she has the personal power to stop the entire armies of all the fiends. I also don't think her power extends beyond Sigil. Now, if the Blood War decided to come her way, and take over Sigil? There might be some pretty full mazes, but the Lady would take the day.
Shemeska the Marauder
03-23-07, 05:11 PM Killing every single celestial in the entire multiverse.

Use that line and you'll have all the girls in the lower planes swooning.
Mecha_Pope
03-23-07, 06:02 PM Use that line and you'll have all the girls in the lower planes swooning.

"Hey baby, you wanna devestate the forces of pure good, thus plunging the multiverse into an age of darkness heretofore unbeknowenced to reality itself?:cool: Hey, where are you going?! :weep: "
Midnight_v
03-23-07, 10:10 PM One would think she would want to avoid a fight with Asmodeus as long as possible.>>

Or worse... PunPun... yep only PunPun is powerful enough to stop the blood war.

but I agree with cain darkwind...

I don't think she has the personal power to stop the entire armies of all the fiends. I also don't think her power extends beyond Sigil.
navar100
03-24-07, 01:35 AM And I was thinking the Fiends would start invading other planes like the prime material plane if there was No Blood War.

That's what happened in my group's previous campaign.

But we're all better, now.
ripvanwormer
03-24-07, 03:08 AM And I was thinking the fiends would start invading other planes like the prime material plane if there was no Blood War.

They do that anyway, because of the Blood War. Sometimes it's because a Prime world just happens to be a convenient battlefield, while other times it's to enslave the world's inhabitants and use them as slave-warriors. The latter is what happened to the world of Glemayne, which was more or less destroyed by the baatezu.
Bob the Efreet
03-24-07, 03:50 AM I tend to feel that the Lady has no direct influence outside of Sigil. However, if She somehow developed the interest, I think She could use her Sigilian influence to have rather far-reaching effects on the planes.

On the other hand, if the fiends tried to take over Sigil, they'd fail. The Lady isn't having any of that in Her house.
sciborg2
03-24-07, 09:29 AM The way I see it the Lady can't do things beyond Sigil. (As in, Faction War's plotline doesn't happen)

Imho, the Lady works as a wonderful, creative, setting mechanic that allows 1st level parties to hang out in Sigil and visit other planes. Use her too much and she risks being pulled into the level of mockery....cough AO cough.....
Millennium
03-24-07, 10:41 AM The closest thing there is to an official in-game explanation for the change from 2e to 3e is "The Lady of Pain did it." (see Die, Vecna, Die!) If you hold that she can do this -I'm not sure I buy it, but some do- then she could probably reorder existence in such a way that the Blood War never happened.

Whether she could actually stop the Blood War in progress is a lot harder to answer. Maybe, maybe not.
ripvanwormer
03-24-07, 11:05 AM I generally like the idea that the Lady of Pain is imprisoned in Sigil, and therefore unable to effect anything outside it.

However, I've hinted that she has the ability to spread plagues to the planes touched by her portals, and may have been responsible for the plagues that devastated the people of ancient Imaskar and the city of Carrigmoor.
BlueFlames
03-24-07, 12:11 PM I think She could use her Sigilian influence to have rather far-reaching effects on the planes.

I've hinted that she has the ability to spread plagues to the planes touched by her portals

You know, it may come off as a little barmy, but the Lady of Pain is starting to sound a lot like the Oinoloth. I think I'll file this away with other crazy theories for NPCs to tell.
ripvanwormer
03-24-07, 12:43 PM The only plague she's canonically said to have maybe created is the one that devastated all the Indeps in Sigil some 600 years back.
Deacon Liadon
03-24-07, 03:23 PM I do recall reading somehere that when Her Serenity killed Aoskar, shee also bumped off all of his priests and followers across the planes, but I suspect that may be a bunch of screed perpetuated by a certain 'loth.
Shemeska the Marauder
03-24-07, 04:03 PM I do recall reading somehere that when Her Serenity killed Aoskar, shee also bumped off all of his priests and followers across the planes, but I suspect that may be a bunch of screed perpetuated by a certain 'loth.

It was present in an early version of my Sigil guide, but rephrased as a (likely baseless) rumor in the current version.
sciborg2
03-25-07, 02:16 AM Mind you I believe what happened to Aoskar's priests beyond Sigil is questionable even in the official texts...
Shemeska the Marauder
03-25-07, 02:33 AM Mind you I believe what happened to Aoskar's priests beyond Sigil is questionable even in the official texts...

I don't believe it addresses them, but Imendor was referred to IIRC as the "last high priest of Aoskar" in 'In the Cage', so you might extrapolate something from there. But it's probably a bit to assume that there was a gigantic slaughter of lay followers, though I'd perfectly happy to assume a harrowing body count within the temple itself and the immediate district, with priests and church officials being flayed or mazed en masse, and a select number of others within Sigil suffering the same. But I'd leave it a mystery about the fate of his remaining clergy and most fervent followers outside of the city.
Bob the Efreet
03-25-07, 03:24 PM But I'd leave it a mystery about the fate of his remaining clergy and most fervent followers outside of the city.

Mystery is good. I like to hint things, though. Like, for example, the rumour that Her Serenity killed every priest of Aoskar in the multiverse.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Infinitum 03-22-07, 09:54 PM	What's your opinion, do you think that, IF SHE/HE CHOSE TO, the Lady of Pain could stop the Blood War? Post your thoughts.
Shadowmind64 03-22-07, 10:08 PM	Doubtfull. The lady of pain doesnt leave Sigil, which is her seat of untimate power. In fact, she probably doesnt give a hoot about the blood war. So, id say no, but if that is a plotline you would like to follow, go for it. :)
Frater_95 03-22-07, 10:37 PM	Yeah, I kind of see her as an aspect of Sigil, and the plane in general. I doubt she would have any interest in it, one way or the other.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-23-07, 12:00 AM	It entirely depends on how you define her. In the context of my own campaign, it's... maybe... but it's an open question of if she cares.
TheOinodaemon 03-23-07, 12:07 AM	Off hand...no. But thats my campaign, where the Blood War is just another facet of creation, like oxygen or people. I think the Lady of Rain (yes the Lady of Rain, step sister to the Lady of Pain)...AHEM Lady of PAIN is a physical manifestation of Sigil's nuetrality amongst the planes and powers.
castlemike 03-23-07, 12:35 AM	No I figure she is either the equivalent of a LN Greater Power or an Over Power but not the only one. Second why would she want to? How would it benefit her? Besides all those Fiends need something to focus on. What would those Fiends focus on if they didn't have the Blood War to occupy their time?
Mecha_Pope 03-23-07, 12:45 AM	What would those Fiends focus on if they didn't have the Blood War to occupy their time? Embroidery. Hellish embroidery of the Pit. Knitwork so blashphemous and foul, to look upon it's demonic lace-work is to have one's soul drained from one's body, to be forever traped in the Abyssal Fabric, there to writhe in enternal agony, untill so corrupt that one is doomed to join the ranks of the Manes, and slave away to the whims of the extra-planer powers of Evil, till time's end.
castlemike 03-23-07, 01:20 AM	And I was thinking the Fiends would start invading other planes like the prime material plane if there was No Blood War.
Dunamin 03-23-07, 01:29 AM	Embroidery. Hellish embroidery of the Pit. Knitwork so blashphemous and foul, to look upon it's demonic lace-work is to have one's soul drained from one's body, to be forever traped in the Abyssal Fabric, there to writhe in enternal agony, untill so corrupt that one is doomed to join the ranks of the Manes, and slave away to the whims of the extra-planer powers of Evil, till time's end. ... and the Yugoloths will be pulling all the strings! Oh, and related to the topic at hand, I agree with the majority. She has never shown interest in the Blood War, so I see no reason she'd exert influence there, assuming she even can.
Mith_The_Godling 03-23-07, 10:00 AM	One would think she would want to avoid a fight with Asmodeus as long as possible.>>
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-23-07, 04:12 PM	What would those Fiends focus on if they didn't have the Blood War to occupy their time? Killing every single celestial in the entire multiverse.
castlemike 03-23-07, 04:24 PM	Killing every single celestial in the entire multiverse. Excellent Point the Prime plane missions would probably be trainging grounds for the lower minions.
Kain Darkwind 03-23-07, 05:00 PM	I don't think she has the personal power to stop the entire armies of all the fiends. I also don't think her power extends beyond Sigil. Now, if the Blood War decided to come her way, and take over Sigil? There might be some pretty full mazes, but the Lady would take the day.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-23-07, 05:11 PM	Killing every single celestial in the entire multiverse. Use that line and you'll have all the girls in the lower planes swooning.
Mecha_Pope 03-23-07, 06:02 PM	Use that line and you'll have all the girls in the lower planes swooning. "Hey baby, you wanna devestate the forces of pure good, thus plunging the multiverse into an age of darkness heretofore unbeknowenced to reality itself?:cool: Hey, where are you going?! :weep: "
Midnight_v 03-23-07, 10:10 PM	One would think she would want to avoid a fight with Asmodeus as long as possible.>> Or worse... PunPun... yep only PunPun is powerful enough to stop the blood war. but I agree with cain darkwind... I don't think she has the personal power to stop the entire armies of all the fiends. I also don't think her power extends beyond Sigil.
navar100 03-24-07, 01:35 AM	And I was thinking the Fiends would start invading other planes like the prime material plane if there was No Blood War. That's what happened in my group's previous campaign. But we're all better, now.
ripvanwormer 03-24-07, 03:08 AM	And I was thinking the fiends would start invading other planes like the prime material plane if there was no Blood War. They do that anyway, because of the Blood War. Sometimes it's because a Prime world just happens to be a convenient battlefield, while other times it's to enslave the world's inhabitants and use them as slave-warriors. The latter is what happened to the world of Glemayne, which was more or less destroyed by the baatezu.
Bob the Efreet 03-24-07, 03:50 AM	I tend to feel that the Lady has no direct influence outside of Sigil. However, if She somehow developed the interest, I think She could use her Sigilian influence to have rather far-reaching effects on the planes. On the other hand, if the fiends tried to take over Sigil, they'd fail. The Lady isn't having any of that in Her house.
sciborg2 03-24-07, 09:29 AM	The way I see it the Lady can't do things beyond Sigil. (As in, Faction War's plotline doesn't happen) Imho, the Lady works as a wonderful, creative, setting mechanic that allows 1st level parties to hang out in Sigil and visit other planes. Use her too much and she risks being pulled into the level of mockery....cough AO cough.....
Millennium 03-24-07, 10:41 AM	The closest thing there is to an official in-game explanation for the change from 2e to 3e is "The Lady of Pain did it." (see Die, Vecna, Die!) If you hold that she can do this -I'm not sure I buy it, but some do- then she could probably reorder existence in such a way that the Blood War never happened. Whether she could actually stop the Blood War in progress is a lot harder to answer. Maybe, maybe not.
ripvanwormer 03-24-07, 11:05 AM	I generally like the idea that the Lady of Pain is imprisoned in Sigil, and therefore unable to effect anything outside it. However, I've hinted that she has the ability to spread plagues to the planes touched by her portals, and may have been responsible for the plagues that devastated the people of ancient Imaskar and the city of Carrigmoor.
BlueFlames 03-24-07, 12:11 PM	I think She could use her Sigilian influence to have rather far-reaching effects on the planes. I've hinted that she has the ability to spread plagues to the planes touched by her portals You know, it may come off as a little barmy, but the Lady of Pain is starting to sound a lot like the Oinoloth. I think I'll file this away with other crazy theories for NPCs to tell.
ripvanwormer 03-24-07, 12:43 PM	The only plague she's canonically said to have maybe created is the one that devastated all the Indeps in Sigil some 600 years back.
Deacon Liadon 03-24-07, 03:23 PM	I do recall reading somehere that when Her Serenity killed Aoskar, shee also bumped off all of his priests and followers across the planes, but I suspect that may be a bunch of screed perpetuated by a certain 'loth.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-24-07, 04:03 PM	I do recall reading somehere that when Her Serenity killed Aoskar, shee also bumped off all of his priests and followers across the planes, but I suspect that may be a bunch of screed perpetuated by a certain 'loth. It was present in an early version of my Sigil guide, but rephrased as a (likely baseless) rumor in the current version.
sciborg2 03-25-07, 02:16 AM	Mind you I believe what happened to Aoskar's priests beyond Sigil is questionable even in the official texts...
Shemeska the Marauder 03-25-07, 02:33 AM	Mind you I believe what happened to Aoskar's priests beyond Sigil is questionable even in the official texts... I don't believe it addresses them, but Imendor was referred to IIRC as the "last high priest of Aoskar" in 'In the Cage', so you might extrapolate something from there. But it's probably a bit to assume that there was a gigantic slaughter of lay followers, though I'd perfectly happy to assume a harrowing body count within the temple itself and the immediate district, with priests and church officials being flayed or mazed en masse, and a select number of others within Sigil suffering the same. But I'd leave it a mystery about the fate of his remaining clergy and most fervent followers outside of the city.
Bob the Efreet 03-25-07, 03:24 PM	But I'd leave it a mystery about the fate of his remaining clergy and most fervent followers outside of the city. Mystery is good. I like to hint things, though. Like, for example, the rumour that Her Serenity killed every priest of Aoskar in the multiverse.