| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| RealSorceror07-09-07, 02:44 PM | UPDATE: Vecna is dead (well, more dead than usual). And to my knowledge, he will not be coming back, as his soul is destroyed (thats what the DM said. I don't know for a fact, as a different god destroyed his soul and did not allow me to watch the event). Also, Kas is risen, and has been set free to do whatever epic vampire Blackguards do in their free time. And lastly, I have taken over as God of secrets. NOTE: This thread has also become an Unofficial Hangout Thread for my playgroup, and contains many posts that are irrelevant to the topic, and which may not make sense to the majority of the internet populace. ------------------ So, I'm gonna kill Vecna, right after I rip him apart, and take his place as a god. Well, thats the plan anyway... I'm gonna ask upfront for any information on Vecna's divine realm and what minions he might have. I hear its an actual castle, and of course I expect to fight undead, necromancers, and stealthy types. And naturally, any tips for fighting Vecna himself would be appreciated. Both liches and gods have a nasty habit of not dying proper after you kill them. As for my character, I'm a NE, lvl 60 hero deity. I'm literally a Bard Druid Wizard Cleric with lots of Mystic Thuerge-type prcs. I also have the Sword of Kas, and I intend to use to hack him into little lich-bits (or at least threaten to do so). More importantly is the rest of my party. They aren't nearly as powerful as me (only lvl 27), but they have recently become rank 1 demigods and are in command of a truly massive empire of githyanki, devils, kua-tuo, and an uncountable number of mercenaries and other unsavory-types. This will make it extremely easy to lay seige to the castle and kill the peons, but unfortunately will probably only encourage Vecna to run away. In fact, I really don't see any way to kill Vecna unless I can back him into an anit-teleporting corner. He is the wily, survivalist type, and has little to gain from facing me in magical combat, and everything to lose. |
| sciborg207-09-07, 04:10 PM | What's the worst secret you've ever kept from everyone, possibly even yourself? Because Vecna is the god of secrets, and if I were him I destroy you with a simply indiscrete whisper... |
| RealSorceror07-09-07, 04:36 PM | What's the worst secret you've ever kept from everyone, possibly even yourself? Because Vecna is the god of secrets, and if I were him I destroy you with a simply indiscrete whisper... Ya, I kinda figured he'd know everything about me. The only thing I have to lose is if he told people I'm actually a tainted oni and no longer a half-elf (because I really am a horrible feind-like creature). Also, I kinda despise my own appearance and spend all my time shapechanged. Course', my party already knows this, and since they are more evil than me they don't really care. I've got a pretty gruesome history, but Vecna can't hurt me with words. The worst he can do is let the world know I exist, cus I'm trying to keep this on the down-low. I suppose he does know all my powers and abilities.....and how to counter them. But hey, thats not gonna stop me from trying. Besides, the Sword of Kas really, really wants me to finish the job. |
| Zousha_Omenohu07-10-07, 10:48 AM | How in the Nine Hells are you level 60 when the rest of the party is level 27?! I would think that this thing seems way out of your companions' league. |
| Artifact07-10-07, 11:36 AM | Schweet :D. I'm behind any plan that involves killing the Arch Lich. He's been a mastermind villain in more of my campaigns then I can remember. If you're looking for info on Vecna, might I recommend Core Beliefs: Vecna by Sean K. Reynolds (presented in Dragon Magazine #348). Back issues can be ordered from paizo.com (natch). As Sciborg2 has already mentioned: More than anything else, your deepest, darkest secret is your ultimate weakness when going against Vecna. Everyone has secrets, guess who knows them all? (And no, its not Kitty Kelley :P.) |
| RealSorceror07-10-07, 12:20 PM | How in the Nine Hells are you level 60 when the rest of the party is level 27?! I would think that this thing seems way out of your companions' league. :eek: its not what it looks like, I swear! Anhyway, our game world works a little different in that several different campaigns can coexist in and be happening in the same timeline. My character (from a different campaign) is basically mentoring these newer villians, and making sure they are under control (can't have some upstarts taking my job). I don't think Vecna will be too far out of their league. They completely killed Demogorgon and Orcus (the bigger BoVD versions) without my help. And I'm not kidding when I say they have a stupidely huge army. |
| RealSorceror07-10-07, 12:27 PM | Schweet :D. I'm behind any plan that involves killing the Arch Lich. He's been a mastermind villain in more of my campaigns then I can remember. If you're looking for info on Vecna, might I recommend Core Beliefs: Vecna by Sean K. Reynolds (presented in Dragon Magazine #348). Back issues can be ordered from paizo.com (natch). I'll see if the DM has that copy. Otherwise, I'll get crackin' on ordering one. And ya, if I get ahold of Vecna, he ain't gonna be just a "Maimed God". Hes gonna be a divine torso. As Sciborg2 has already mentioned: More than anything else, your deepest, darkest secret is your ultimate weakness when going against Vecna. Everyone has secrets, guess who knows them all? (And no, its not Kitty Kelley :P.) Pssh. Its not like I wet my bed as a child or anything. I do have that whole "despise my own true from" thing goin', but I'm gangsta. My buddies are a Githyanki king and a Shadow Dragon prince. I hope they don't have anything wierd in their past ("weird" for us is a little different from weird for normal people). |
| sciborg207-10-07, 12:43 PM | he might also hide his phylactery in a different timeline or better yet, a possible future that can't be reached save through paradox. he might force you to make a choice - kill him and be trapped in your true form forever, or let him live. your party is also evil, they might be blackmailed or bribed into betraying you. he might use secrets of other beings, even other gods, to blackmail them into being allies rather than attack your party directly. he might also convince Good deities that better someone like him who plays by the rules than, as you say, "young upstarts" ;) |
| RealSorceror07-10-07, 01:17 PM | he might also hide his phylactery in a different timeline or better yet, a possible future that can't be reached save through paradox. Ok, now that would just suck. Course', I could just keep killing him over and over, or trap him somehow while he is reforming. he might force you to make a choice - kill him and be trapped in your true form forever, or let him live. your party is also evil, they might be blackmailed or bribed into betraying you. If I kill him, I'll become a god, and eventually be strong enough to break his curse. As for the others betraying me, I already expect them to do that in the future. I just need them long enough to mow down the castle and peons, so I can conserve my resources to fight Vecna. After that, I don't much care what happens. Sure, the lich could reveal my thoughts to them, but I'm sure the feelings (or lack thereof) are mutual. he might use secrets of other beings, even other gods, to blackmail them into being allies rather than attack your party directly. he might also convince Good deities that better someone like him who plays by the rules than, as you say, "young upstarts" ;) Ooh, now that could be a problem. A don't need our CG Dwarven god ****-stomping my butt. I know I can't beat that god. I'll just have to go talk to Angus myself and ask permission to kill Vecna. I'm sure he won't mind me killing all those undead and evil clerics. I might fail to mention my allies, though. :) |
| Meep32607-10-07, 01:36 PM | Pssh. Its not like I wet my bed as a child or anything. I do have that whole "despise my own true from" thing goin', but I'm gangsta. My buddies are a Githyanki king and a Shadow Dragon prince. I hope they don't have anything wierd in their past ("weird" for us is a little different from weird for normal people). Hehe... your little 'weird' is nothing like our 'weird'. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-10-07, 02:14 PM | Ooh, now that could be a problem. A don't need our CE Dwarven god ****-stomping my butt. I know I can't beat that god. I'll just have to go talk to Angus myself and ask permission to kill Vecna. I'm sure he won't mind me killing all those undead and evil clerics. I might fail to mention my allies, though. :) Yeah, we are workin hard to make sure our githyanki warlord (my character) doesn't start a fight with our Chaotic Good Dwarven God (also my character :) ). He has a nasty habit of destroying evil creatures simply for existing, and if Vecna alerted the dwarven god of our presence- there would be githyanki gibbs everywhere. He would also make short work of Salazzar, an evil demigod who is only tolerated because the dwarf feels sympathy for the evil monster- Salazzar came from a world overun with mind flayers and the Dwarf has a long sad history involving the illithids. His empathy towards Salazzar would quickly end if he knew that the little caster was conspiring against him, which he blatantly is now. The Githyanki doesn't, however, feel any need to destroy Salazzar- the taint beast hasn't given him any reason not to be trusted. The Warlord doesn't feel threatened by Salazzar either, so I don't see a betrayal happening from the gith camp. |
| RealSorceror07-10-07, 02:47 PM | Yeah, we are workin hard to make sure our githyanki warlord (my character) doesn't start a fight with our Chaotic Good Dwarven God (also my character :) ). Did I say Choatic Evil? Whoops, Freudian slip. :D He has a nasty habit of destroying evil creatures simply for existing, and if Vecna alerted the dwarven god of our presence- there would be githyanki gibbs everywhere. He would also make short work of Salazzar, an evil demigod who is only tolerated because the dwarf feels sympathy for the evil monster- Salazzar came from a world overun with mind flayers and the Dwarf has a long sad history involving the illithids. His empathy towards Salazzar would quickly end if he knew that the little caster was conspiring against him, which he blatantly is now. I'm not plotting agianst you. You don't have anything I want (no offense, I'm just not into Rocks and Sunshine). Vecna is totally cramping my style by being the current god of undeath, evil magic, and general mysteriousness. The Githyanki doesn't, however, feel any need to destroy Salazzar- the taint beast hasn't given him any reason not to be trusted. The Warlord doesn't feel threatened by Salazzar either, so I don't see a betrayal happening from the gith camp. You trust me? Aww, thats nice of you. (of course, by "trust" you mean that I'm less expendable than other peons). Good thing he hasn't seen me fight yet, otherwise you would feel a little threatened. |
| Khadmus07-10-07, 05:52 PM | The Maimed Lord is watching you, oni. Even as your nigh-omnipotent guardian plots to raise you to power, Vecna watches. |
| TheAnthroDM07-10-07, 07:09 PM | The fact that Vecna knows basically everything there is to know makes him extremely difficult to kill, not because of the power level of the Arch Lich himself(Isn't it inferred in ToM that he became a shadowcaster?) but because you're basically facing the most intelligent opponent in the multiverse. (Though Boccob and Wee Jas come close.) |
| sciborg207-10-07, 09:13 PM | I can't see even an epic party defeating the massive amounts of peons Vecna should be able to draw on. Are you guys the only characters of your level? I just see Vecna blackmailing epic mortals, dragons, and then if need be gods against you. I think negotiating with other gods in the pantheon to accept Vecna's removal is your best bet. |
| Hellsbells07-10-07, 10:04 PM | Simplest way EVER to kill vecna. find his hand and eye. Cover them in godkiller poison (it exists inmy campaign, make it exist in yours!!!!!!!!!), throw it at him..... of course getting close enough to him to throw it at him is a problem. |
| TheAnthroDM07-10-07, 11:15 PM | Simplest way EVER to kill vecna. find his hand and eye. Cover them in godkiller poison (it exists inmy campaign, make it exist in yours!!!!!!!!!), throw it at him..... of course getting close enough to him to throw it at him is a problem. Does Vecna even CARE about his hand and eye? |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 09:10 AM | Does Vecna even CARE about his hand and eye? If he did, he would have gotten them back a long time ago. Also, Vecna would totally know that I put poison all over it. |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 09:54 AM | The fact that Vecna knows basically everything there is to know makes him extremely difficult to kill, not because of the power level of the Arch Lich himself(Isn't it inferred in ToM that he became a shadowcaster?) but because you're basically facing the most intelligent opponent in the multiverse. (Though Boccob and Wee Jas come close.) Yep, thats my main problem. He knows when, where, and how I'm going to try to kill him, and therefore he knows exactly how to escape. Also, in our setting, we use unoficial errata released by the auther of the Shadowcaster class, meaning that they don't suck. If Vecna really is a Shadowcaster, he'd still be quite potent, especially being able to ignore spell resistance and cast mysteries whenever he damn well pleases. I can't see even an epic party defeating the massive amounts of peons Vecna should be able to draw on. Are you guys the only characters of your level? I just see Vecna blackmailing epic mortals, dragons, and then if need be gods against you. As I've said, it ain't just the three of us. The Githyanki is literally king of the gith. All of them. He has also aquired the complete allegience of the Devils and Arch-devils after he slew Demogorgan and Orcus. So we have a ton of gith, a ton of devils, and a fair number of dragons (mostly red), kua-tuo, and mercs. I also have a decent army of oni and undead. Vecna may have uncountable hordes, but we have Bel and the Dark Eight (yes, those Dark Eight) leading our hordes. And to your second question, yes, epic beings are almost commonplace. However, creatures of my power level are still very rare, and the majority of those are PC gods (If Vecna tried to blackmail these characters, most of them would rather nuke Vecna himself than go after me). The worst damage he could do is expose the plans of the Gith king to the good pantheon. That would really put a damper on our day. I think negotiating with other gods in the pantheon to accept Vecna's removal is your best bet. Agreed. Thats exactly what I intend to do. However, even without interference, just catching the wily rascal will be a chore. It might be easier to start searching the multiverse for his lich-box ('cus I can't spell that ph word). |
| Sorcen_Anenooata07-11-07, 11:07 AM | Vecna is the god of secrets, he knows all that is unknown. Herein lies the path to defeating him. You must make it known openly that you will kill him without him knowing that you will kill him. Out of Character you pretty much have to develop undeniable or at least barely understandable logic that will convince your DM that Vecna cannot know that are going to kill him even though the information is open and not a secret at all. Also I reccommend either to openly confess all your deepest secrets to each other and to everyone else before facing the lichlord, or to not care about the secrets getting out. The former is a better path, for Vecna will certainly draw power just from you having secrets. |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 11:38 AM | Vecna is the god of secrets, he knows all that is unknown. Herein lies the path to defeating him. You must make it known openly that you will kill him without him knowing that you will kill him. Now thats interesting. So in other words, if its not a secret, then he won't automatically know it. Out of Character you pretty much have to develop undeniable or at least barely understandable logic that will convince your DM that Vecna cannot know that are going to kill him even though the information is open and not a secret at all. Something I was considering was to somehow rig it so that even I don't know how I will kill Vecna. I was thinking I might record my plans in a contingency spell and then Mind Rape myself to forget the plans. The epic contingency spell will then leak the information to me on a need-to-know basis at the precis moment that I need the information. Or maybe I'll just make myself forget I hate Vecna, and then invite him over for tea or and a human sacrifice or two. Then the spell reminds me that I hate Vecna, and I gank his sorry butt. :D Also I reccommend either to openly confess all your deepest secrets to each other and to everyone else before facing the lichlord, or to not care about the secrets getting out. The former is a better path, for Vecna will certainly draw power just from you having secrets. Dude, you just gave me a horrible image of the murderous Gith king in pink pajamas telling me all his high-school crushes. Thats just scary. Don't do that. With this particular party, I'm thinking it would be easier if we all just man-up and stop caring. I know the king doesn't give a rats-ass about his "secrets" (being a malicious, cruel overlord does that to ya). The dragon might have a few issues in his wyrmling years that bother him. I know I'm all sorts of screwed up, but it doesn't bother me, per-say. |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 11:40 AM | Ok, so yes, we all know he is master of secrets, he is practically omniscient, and he has likely survived thousands of attempts on his life, and killed all previous upstarts. :D However, I was kinda looking for ways to get around this, y'know, cus I actually want to succeed. :D |
| sciborg207-11-07, 12:00 PM | Actually, with the armies at your disposal, killing Vecna might be a silly chore...and he doesn't know everything, nor every secret. That's too much power for a lesser god. |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 12:10 PM | Actually, with the armies at your disposal, killing Vecna might be a silly chore...and he doesn't know everything, nor every secret. That's too much power for a lesser god. Ya, but how do I keep him still long enough to kill? I expect he'll just plane shift away as soon as an army shows up on his front lawn. Also, a thought occured to me. Would a Miracle spell combined with True Ressurrection bring back Kas? :D I'd do it just to see a lich-god soil his robes. |
| Sorcen_Anenooata07-11-07, 12:12 PM | It depends on how your DM interprets his power as to whether some of these ideas will work. Your idea of forgetting that you want to kill him then when you're close you remember that you want to kill him, could technically be interpretted as a secret that you're keeping from yourself. As Sciborg said though, he is only a lesser god and he wont know every secret but its better to overestimate your foe than to underesitimate him. You know your DM so I'm certain you will know the best way to handle this but my suggestion is to announce it in a way that he will not know and then kill him the way you have planned or you could always kill him but have no idea how you plan to do it, just improvise as it happens. I think your fairly ok on the part about him using your secrets against you. EDIT: Now thats an idea, bring back Kas. |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 01:43 PM | Ima go have a chat with my DM and playgroup before I get too far ahead of myself. I'll let ya'll know how that goes. And ya, bringing back Kas is sounding cooler and cooler the more I think about it. |
| Warforged Goblin07-11-07, 02:39 PM | One thing about relative power levels. Sure, you may be the baddest kid in the yard, but that's this yard. What if Big V brings an alternate you, or a bunch of alternate you's, to the fight? If you're cunning and malicious enough to take on Vecna, what's gonna happen when you have to fight yourself? |
| rivaltuna07-11-07, 04:06 PM | You have convinced me to post, therefore it's a miracle and I have somthing intelligent to say, another miracle in it's own right. Steps to slaughtering Vecna. 1. Amass an army. 2. Tell Cleric's of Pelor about your plan to destroy the arch-lich, recruit some volunteers to turn/destroy the countless liches you face at Vecna's palace. 3. Make battle plans. 4. Miracle/Wish Kas' soul back into existance. 5. Ressurect Kas. 6. Geas/Quest Kas to "kill Vecna and Vecna's followers only". 7. Reveal all secrets to your army and allies. 8. Storm Vecna's HQ. 9. Grab Vecna, take your 5 strongest allies and Planeshift onto the Positive Energy plane. Cast Inprisonment. 10. Miracle: find out where Vecna's philactery is. 11. Get said Philactery. 12. Destroy it between the gears of Mechanus. 13. Free Vecna and cast Planar binding on him. 14. Atomic wedgies/ass kicking of an apocyliptic scale follows. Thank you, Goodnight! |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 04:09 PM | One thing about relative power levels. Sure, you may be the baddest kid in the yard, but that's this yard. What if Big V brings an alternate you, or a bunch of alternate you's, to the fight? If you're cunning and malicious enough to take on Vecna, what's gonna happen when you have to fight yourself? Wheres he gonna find alternate mes? I don't even know how to do that. Sure, I have apprentices and puppet golems that act/dress like me, but there is only one Salazzar Slaan the Bloodspeaker. To top that off, I'm already from an alternate Material Plane that was formerly rules by Ilsinsine (who died in a "fight" with a dwarven god), and there is no me from this material plane (becuase the world's history is completely). There is a third known Material Plane, but theres no bizzaro me there, either. All that aside, if he did manage to somehow find an alternate me, and somehow we where to fight, I'd probably kick my ass. Of course, the surviver will still hate Vecna (I've coveted his powers my whole life) and that just leaves Big V back at square one, possibley with a stronger me around. |
| RealSorceror07-11-07, 04:36 PM | You have convinced me to post, therefore it's a miracle and I have somthing intelligent to say, another miracle in it's own right. Steps to slaughtering Vecna. 1. Amass an army. 2. Tell Cleric's of Pelor about your plan to destroy the arch-lich, recruit some volunteers to turn/destroy the countless liches you face at Vecna's palace. 3. Make battle plans. 4. Miracle/Wish Kas' soul back into existance. 5. Ressurect Kas. 6. Geas/Quest Kas to "kill Vecna and Vecna's followers only". 7. Reveal all secrets to your army and allies. 8. Storm Vecna's HQ. 9. Grab Vecna, take your 5 strongest allies and Planeshift onto the Positive Energy plane. Cast Inprisonment. 10. Miracle: find out where Vecna's philactery is. 11. Get said Philactery. 12. Destroy it between the gears of Mechanus. 13. Free Vecna and cast Planar binding on him. 14. Atomic wedgies/ass kicking of an apocyliptic scale follows. Thank you, Goodnight! Hellz yes! Now we're talkin'! A :cookie: for you sir. 1. Done. Gith, Devils, Mercs. All the food groups. 2. Done, but they'll be Clerics of Angus, which is even better than Pelor. 3. Done. 4. Done. I've got Wish and Miracle. 5. Done. 6. Done, although I can make over 80 on a Diplomacy check. 7. Done. 8. Double Done. 9. I love you. In a manly, brotherly sort of way. 10. Done. 11. Done. 12. It just so happens I'm on good terms with a god of Mechanus. Hes a giant robot. 13. Also done. 14. I like this plan. Anybody want the real head of Vecna? XD |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-11-07, 07:59 PM | zith in fuzzy pink pajamas...*cackle* ok, now that thats out of the way. i am not under any circumstances going to the positive energy plain, shadow dragons + positive energy = x.x besides, cain utterly destroyed Bell and took those eight guys under his own wing. small epic level peons frighten me not (famouse last words.) angus scares me, but thats because he has every right to be feared. cain likewise has given up on secrets, its unwise to keep secrets from zith, certain people are stapled to the side of a walking city for plotting...>.> besides, any personal secrets will become known in the fight for the seat f power in the shadow plane, which i assumed we where doing first, so that we could shadow dragons added to our groups army. |
| Sorcen_Anenooata07-12-07, 12:21 AM | Hooray the strange mental image produced by my words has been sigged, (The thing about the gith king in pink pajamas). And yes I sort of got that mental picture too and I thought to sig it as well. Rivaltuna: Awesome plan, why didnt I think of using the positive plane. Anyway I see it working quite well RealSorceror so try it. Let us know how it turns out. |
| Warforged Goblin07-12-07, 06:58 AM | Wheres he gonna find alternate mes? I don't even know how to do that. Sure, I have apprentices and puppet golems that act/dress like me, but there is only one Salazzar Slaan the Bloodspeaker. To top that off, I'm already from an alternate Material Plane that was formerly rules by Ilsinsine (who died in a "fight" with a dwarven god), and there is no me from this material plane (becuase the world's history is completely). There is a third known Material Plane, but theres no bizzaro me there, either. All that aside, if he did manage to somehow find an alternate me, and somehow we where to fight, I'd probably kick my ass. Of course, the surviver will still hate Vecna (I've coveted his powers my whole life) and that just leaves Big V back at square one, possibley with a stronger me around. Those are the material planes that YOU know of. I forget if you said it or not, but despite your power, you don't have divine rank yet, so there are some things that he knows that you don't. Now look up the "Gods of the Mirror-verse" thread (a few pages back I believe) and there you'll find a good incarnation of Vecna. Now if I was your DM, you can bet your dice bag that this Vecna would get a hold of Good-Vecna and ask for some aid. The good and virtuous Salazzar Slaan would leap at the chance to destroy an "evil-alternate" version of himself who's looking to kill his master's "misguided" alternate. Salazzar the Good would think that, with all his knowledge, "evil" Vecna could be redeemed. You sir, however, are an abomination that must be scourged from the Multiverse, as Salazzar the Good sees it. Of course, I'm not your DM, so he'd have to come up with this is his own, but it is something to consider. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-12-07, 10:55 AM | Wheres he gonna find alternate mes? I don't even know how to do that. Sure, I have apprentices and puppet golems that act/dress like me, but there is only one Salazzar Slaan the Bloodspeaker. He could always use an aleax against you and everyone else, but you have one advantage- our gith has already killed his aleax. You guys might be occupied, but I'd put money on the gith in a fist fight with Vecna. By that time I'll have the last piece of the regalia of evil (all of my melee damage is vile), not to mention my dragon mount is also a deity. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-12-07, 11:12 AM | Salazzar got divine rank during our last game session, I put him through our deital challenge.I'm RealSorceror's DM, and we only have three material planes- our home plane, the one Salazzar comes from, and another that my new players (TurnCloak_Kobold,RealSorceror) have never seen. There used to be more, but our OG reoccuring villain destroyed most of them. Let it be known, don't mess with a plane-hopping, soul-drinking, dwarven half-dragon mirumoto niten master-the results can be devastating. He has only been surpassed by my newest, and favorite, evil character- our githyanki warlord. Not to mention I know Salazzar's backstory- his alternate version would be some pretty half-elf, which would just make our little taint beast even more upset. Someone who reminds Salazzar of his original form is sure to die quickly. Our githyanki has pretty much united the lower planes, and has the largest standing army the multiverse has ever seen- nothing but Githyanki, Kuo-tao, Devils, Demons, Undead, Mercenaries, and Warforged(some of whom may be half-shadow dragon warforged). We should be able to overun Vecna's fortress with little effort- I'm more worried about the combat sequence with Vecna himself. The aleax trick could be interesting, but as I said in my last post- our githyanki has already killed his aleax when he was trying to kill the Lich-Queen. |
| sciborg207-12-07, 11:59 AM | Devils and Demons united? Uhhhhhhh..... |
| RealSorceror07-12-07, 12:11 PM | Salazzar got divine rank during our last game session, I put him through our deital challenge. I'm RealSorceror's DM, and we only have three material planes- our home plane, the one Salazzar comes from, and another that my new players (TurnCloak_Kobold,RealSorceror) have never seen. One we haven't seen? OOOH. <.<; Not to mention I know Salazzar's backstory- his alternate version would be some pretty half-elf, which would just make our little taint beast even more upset. Someone who reminds Salazzar of his original form is sure to die quickly. On top of that, I used to be a good character, and I still help people sometimes even though I'm corrupt (remember, I saved thousands of people from Mind Flayers). Also, I'm a firm believer in uniting against greater evils (such as Ilsinsine). My alternate pretty-boy self would be exactly like me had I avoided corruption, and therefore would recognize Vecna as the greater evil, and would see me as a victem of circumstance. Ergo, I win. :D We should be able to overun Vecna's fortress with little effort- I'm more worried about the combat sequence with Vecna himself. The aleax trick could be interesting, but as I said in my last post- our githyanki has already killed his aleax when he was trying to kill the Lich-Queen. Agreed. Getting to Vecna isn't the issue. I like the strategy RivalTuna gave us. We'd just need to time it right so Vecna can't escape. That means we find him quickly (only difficult part) and win initiative (shouldn't be a problem) and out grapple him (also no problem). |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-12-07, 12:35 PM | Devils and Demons united? Uhhhhhhh.....I dropped my Githyanki army right into the middle of the blood war. I had my shadow dragon general take out bel- but bel surrendered his forces to my cause. We quickly cleared the field of all demonic opposition. In our world, the devils were quickly being overwhelmed by the demonic forces because our dwarven god destroyed many armies in hell. I marched our army, including bel's troops, into Baator. I told Asmodeus of my plans to recruit the demons to my cause so that I can attack celestial, and he agreed to submit to my will provided I kept him as an advisor- not to mention that he knew I had enough troops to overwhelm Nessus. I replaced the Baatezu generals with Githyanki and told them to begin marching on the Abyssal layers. The Githyanki warlord, a fleet of troops, and my strongest generals defeated both Demogorgon and Orcus. After that, many demons pledged themselves to me out of fear. Did I also mention that the shadow dragon general, the githyanki warlord, and his red dragon mount are all demigods- sorry I'm still getting used to it. We also have the plans to create soul forges, and I set up quite a few in the abyss- every warforged is trained to keep moving through the abyss until they can go no further. When they reach their objective, they are to build outposts, and more soul forges, loyal to me. The yugoloths are next, but I'm fairly certain that they will be smart enough to negotiate. Our plans, after this, lead us to conquer the shadow plane, destroy Vecna, and attack the material plane and celestia simultaneously. Go evil! :mad: |
| RealSorceror07-12-07, 12:44 PM | Devils and Demons united? Uhhhhhhh..... Its not their decision. We are bigger and meaner than they are. Also, we want to attack Celestia. They want to attack Celestia. Its all good.....er, evil. Go evil! :mad: *sniff* M'lord, that was bueatiful. :weep: |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-12-07, 12:46 PM | double post |
| RealSorceror07-12-07, 12:48 PM | Pssst, M'lord, you've double posted agian. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-12-07, 12:53 PM | Pssst, M'lord, you've double posted agian. Silence,Thrall!!! Shmeh, it was worth saying twice. I'm not sure why it went up twice, Dotrak has given me the technology curse it seems.:P |
| rivaltuna07-12-07, 10:16 PM | Oh, you may need protection against positive energy, if you use my plan. Wow. 2 posts in one thread, I don't know whats gotten into me. Also, please not that a deity may only use a single Aleax at a time. |
| RealSorceror07-13-07, 09:06 AM | Oh, you may need protection against positive energy, if you use my plan. We'll be having a huge battle before we ever get to Vecna. I'll just be sure to take some damage. Positive energy is harmless as long as you're not at full health. Wow. 2 posts in one thread, I don't know whats gotten into me. Also, please note that a deity may only use a single Aleax at a time. Sir, you are amazing. I had no idea a god could only use one Aleax at a time. This will make it even easier. Vecna will probably choose me, as I am the greatest direct threat. However, I know I can hold off my Aleax (and vice versa) for quite some time, leaving the rest of my group to slay the lich-god without any obstacles. :) |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-13-07, 12:41 PM | We'll be having a huge battle before we ever get to Vecna. I'll just be sure to take some damage. Positive energy is harmless as long as you're not at full health. Sir, you are amazing. I had no idea a god could only use one Aleax at a time. This will make it even easier. Vecna will probably choose me, as I am the greatest direct threat. However, I know I can hold off my Aleax (and vice versa) for quite some time, leaving the rest of my group to slay the lich-god without any obstacles. :) O.o durka? ok i know you can cast every spell in the book, and your kinda cool, but that dosent make you the greatist threat. first of all, the greatist threat is Zith, but Zith has already beat his Aleax. second, huge dragon....right there. i put him in a grapple and he cant do anything....freedom of movement, ok ill let you cast dimensional anchor on him and il beat him within in an inch of my life. not to mention, what diety as (i shudder to say it but..) "smart" as big V wouldent see that a shadow dragon could reak seriouse havac with a few well placed breath weapons on his own troops, who i might add are not immune to negitive levels, or hellbreath. your just an epic wizard/sorceror/whatever you are, with lots of levels and time stop....too many uses of time stop. i garuantee cain is built better than that 75 HD force dragon, so dont get ahead of yourself on that one! just because you beat a high level dragon, dosent mean that a low level one isent beter...>.> much much much better. by the by, our current good god of magic is never allowed to make dragons again...evar with an A even. it hurt my very soul to look at all those 75 levels, and to see that a force dragon was built like a glorafied wizard! granted that is how he goes about everything, but a force dragon should be played like a master stratagist with big muscles....alot like angus fights, if angus had a 99 in strength, of which i still dont know how he got it... |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-13-07, 12:50 PM | Hooray the strange mental image produced by my words has been sigged, (The thing about the gith king in pink pajamas). And yes I sort of got that mental picture too and I thought to sig it as well. x.x you have no idea, that murderous gith king is like half demon or something by now, so he has the horns and the wings and the overall red tinge. and i cant help thinking that if Zith is wearing fuzzy pink pajamas, hes forcing bothkothar, his red dragon, and our esteemed salazar to likewise wear pink pajamas. cain would decide that he has better things to do that night, like backtalk the army or something >.> or fling people off the city...you know, something evil so as he has an excuse, like a doctors note for evil! "pleas excuse cain from the pajama party, hes not feeling particularly well today and he needs his daily alotment of chucking people off tall structures!" >.> oh and on the Aleax thing, i suppose im jealouse *shrugs* im a dragon, its in my nature to be jealouse when scrawny people are supposidly more of a threat than me...unless there kobolds, kobolds are awesome and therefore allowed to be awesome! |
| RealSorceror07-13-07, 01:37 PM | O.o durka? ok i know you can cast every spell in the book, and your kinda cool, but that dosent make you the greatist threat. first of all, the greatist threat is Zith, but Zith has already beat his Aleax. second, huge dragon....right there. i put him in a grapple and he cant do anything....freedom of movement, ok ill let you cast dimensional anchor on him and il beat him within in an inch of my life. not to mention, what diety as (i shudder to say it but..) "smart" as big V wouldent see that a shadow dragon could reak seriouse havac with a few well placed breath weapons on his own troops, who i might add are not immune to negitive levels, or hellbreath. 1). His troops are immune to negative levels. In fact, it'll probably heal. Vecna is a lich! He has undead peons! 2). Vecna is a mage, and as such feels threatened by powerful magic. My moxie is superior to his moxie. 3). I know you have a high opinion of yourself (and really, you do have mad skillz) but I'm the stronger character here. I'm not a puny wizard with no BAB or hp. I'm an epic Bloodspeaker. The Taint is with me. your just an epic wizard/sorceror/whatever you are, with lots of levels and time stop....too many uses of time stop. i garuantee cain is built better than that 75 HD force dragon, so dont get ahead of yourself on that one! just because you beat a high level dragon, dosent mean that a low level one isent beter...>.> much much much better. 4). I'm an epic Wizard Cleric Bard Druid. I don't do Sorcerory. 5). I can cast Time Stop from two classes, and if I prep nothing but Time Stop, its over 10 uses per day. Possibly 20. 6). That force dragon had 75HD? Wow, I kick the ass. by the by, our current good god of magic is never allowed to make dragons again...evar with an A even. it hurt my very soul to look at all those 75 levels, and to see that a force dragon was built like a glorafied wizard! granted that is how he goes about everything, but a force dragon should be played like a master stratagist with big muscles....alot like angus fights, if angus had a 99 in strength, of which i still dont know how he got it... 7). Personally, I would have built the Force Dragon as a force magic specialist and have him mashing people with Bigby's Fist spells. Also, epic Missile Storm is amazing. Cool, useful, and flashy. x.x you have no idea, that murderous gith king is like half demon or something by now, so he has the horns and the wings and the overall red tinge. and i cant help thinking that if Zith is wearing fuzzy pink pajamas, hes forcing bothkothar, his red dragon, and our esteemed salazar to likewise wear pink pajamas. cain would decide that he has better things to do that night, like backtalk the army or something >.> or fling people off the city...you know, something evil so as he has an excuse, like a doctors note for evil! 8). Sal is Goth. Pink is not in my vocabulary. Also, I don't sleep, so I wouldn't even have PJs 9). Evil doctors notes? Brilliant! >.> oh and on the Aleax thing, i suppose im jealouse *shrugs* im a dragon, its in my nature to be jealouse when scrawny people are supposidly more of a threat than me...unless there kobolds, kobolds are awesome and therefore allowed to be awesome! 10). You've seen my true form. I'm 8 feet tall with four arms, wings, and a spiked tail. I have horns of bone, jagged fangs, and I bleed raw taint. My eyes are burning pits of flame. The only thing scarier is Zith, and thats only because he ate a live baby. I mean, c'mon. How do I top that? |
| rivaltuna07-13-07, 05:17 PM | 1). The only thing scarier is Zith, and thats only because he ate a live baby. I mean, c'mon. How do I top that? Throw a baby against the wall repeatedly until it explodes, and lick up the remains like a vampire bat feasting on a cow. |
| Zousha_Omenohu07-14-07, 01:18 AM | :yuck: You must have taken ranks in Craft (Disturbing Mental Image). I'm pretty stunned at the sheer might of this group. I think I can safely cite this as an example of a campaign getting "too epic", but then that's just a matter of taste. |
| Eater_Of_Souls07-15-07, 03:45 AM | Only one flaw you need a god to give you those secrets :P If other vechnas rivals haven't done all that yet, why should you be able to do it ? One more thing as vechna has a portfolio sence, she knows everything you do for days a head and since your plan is a secret one, trust me she knows ... Dunno about vechnas divine rank but if it's a greater god she know 2 weeks ahead of you plans. Did I mention my pet hate is epic "cool let's kill a god"- campaigns. |
| Manyfist07-15-07, 07:36 AM | Lets not mention Venca is a very epic arch-lich. He has multiple phylacteries, hidden all over the worlds, time, and space. At minimum I say he has over a million phylacteries. He can also time travel (perks of being high level), get you when you were just a level 1, kill you off then, and bamn... all the stuff you've done is undone. |
| zeratulcraft07-15-07, 09:07 AM | That also creates a disturbing paradox. For if you're not there in the future to create the plan that caused Vecna to go back in time to slay you, he never did it, which means you create the plan...which means he kills you...etc. Paradoxi aren't fun. |
| Manyfist07-15-07, 10:13 AM | That also creates a disturbing paradox. For if you're not there in the future to create the plan that caused Vecna to go back in time to slay you, he never did it, which means you create the plan...which means he kills you...etc. Paradoxi aren't fun. I always thought lesser to over gods are outside time and space. |
| I_am_an_undead07-15-07, 10:17 AM | Well, Vecna can't travel in time anyway, at least not by himself (althrough if there IS a way to travel in time, that bastard probably knows about it). Also, if they use the stats from deities and demigods, Vecna can't cast Aumvor's fragmented phylactery due to his lack of the epic spellcasting feat, so he can't have more than one phylactery. Eater_of_Souls, Vecna is a lesser god, though he was a greater god for a time in the module Die Vecna Die! (less importantly, he's a he, not a she). |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-16-07, 12:25 AM | at the time all our charectors, not including salazar where lesser deities, so he cant officially kill off any important people....no offense sal. we are removed from the time stream, as was mentioned earlier. >.> vecna is a giant loser, and i leave it to other people who can defend our actions better to tell you why exactly vecna is a giant loser....except this, who gives a litch divine shields? he has no con, thats dummer than stupid, it would have been better to give him other things, things that would have powned over people thinking to walk in and slay a vecna. |
| RealSorceror07-16-07, 11:44 AM | The "fight" was terrible. As in there was no fight. While Vecna's cleric and lich army engaged our (much bigger) army, I shot an annihilating shere spell through the walls of the castle. We (just the three of us and a cohort) entered the castle, and slaughtered several Infernals, as well as a few liches and rent-a-peons. Then we killed Vecna. :( It was very ant-climatic, and we all (especially the DM) agreed that the gods in the Dieties and Demigods are very poorly built and that gods should never die so embarressingly. Even with just a PH and an Epic-Handbook, any of us could have built Vecna to be nigh-unstoppable and a challenge even to my high-epic character. But WAIT, thats not the whole story. Vecna's phylactery(s) proved to be the real challenge. The DM decided that his artifcat hand and eye would be the containers for the liche's soul (which is actually rather clever, since the owners of such potent artifacts would never want to lose their power). After I recovered the Hand (usind Miracle to discover it's location), I discovered that the Eye was in possession of a Dwarf. Now, you might say, "Whats the problem? Just go kill him and take it!". And that would have worked, except this Dwarf just so happened to be Angus, a 75HD Greater God, not to mention a shining paragon of all things good and sacred. On top of that, this Dwarf was the DM's personal favorite character. On top of that, the Eye was in the god's horde, located deep within Angalor, city of the gods of light. So, like any epic-evil taint beast, I walked up to the front gates and asked Ms. Angus if Mr. Angus was home, and could he please come out and play. :) Some rather humiliating begging followed, followed by me handing over Vecna's Hand, followed by an epic-time out. Angus eventually destroyed the artifacts (and therefore Vecna) under the condition that he would be keeping an eye on me, and if I did anything funny he'd rip out my spleen. Did I mention my pet hate is epic "cool let's kill a god"- campaigns. Just to ease your mind, we didn't just make epic characters and start hacking into divine backsides. These characters have been played since low level and worked their way up. The Gith king and dragon started below level 10 and earned every level they have. I started at level 4 and retired the character to NPC status. When he hit level 40, I began playing him again, leveling all the way up to 65. Our world has a detailed history and genealogy that is always being added to, and we like to keep it serious, because its important to our group. :) Yes, we do a lot of epic, world shaking things, but thats the kind of tone we like to have. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-16-07, 02:34 PM | he died in one round of combat. :mad: just one round, one divine blast and all his shields where gone. then a certain wizard cast a spell and whiz bang the lich was dead, the lich was dead, yes the wicked lich! |
| RealSorceror07-16-07, 02:40 PM | he died in one round of combat. :mad: just one round, one divine blast and all his shields where gone. then a certain wizard cast a spell and whiz bang the lich was dead, the lich was dead, yes the wicked lich! Except there where no dancing midgets with candy, which made it far less entertaining. Also, remind me to drop a house on Nurall. It won't hurt him, but it will make me feel better. |
| I_am_an_undead07-16-07, 03:10 PM | Yes, the gods in Deities and demigods didn't take into account the epic level handbook, so they are horribly weak compared to an epîc character with it. However, vecna still could have made a rather nasty fight, if you take into account that he can cast any spells from the wizard/sorcerer spell list (thanks to his arcane mastery Salient divine ability) spontaneously (thanks to his spontaneous wizard spell Salient divine ability) and has 30 spell slots of 9th level and higher. Just that, and the fact that all his spells are treated as maximized in virtue of his godhood and that he's so frikkin' hard to surprise, can make him rather dangerous. Just a simple example: He could divine the location of his ennemies, teleport without error (which he can do at will) in the middle of them, cast time stop in his surprise round, giving him 5 rounds of respite, prepare a barrage of spells, cast another time stop, repeat ad noseum, teleport into a safe place, cast a generous number of antidectection spells, rest until his spells come back, and begin anew... It's pretty basic because I'm not a good strategist, but anyway, with his exagerated number of spell slots, and other abilities, he could have survived more than one round. Unless, of course, I read wrong, which often happens to me.:( |
| Anodai07-16-07, 03:27 PM | Find where they keep hecatoncheires or whatever (100 armed things from epic) It says that every time they get out gods die. you should be able to get them to vecna somehow... |
| Manyfist07-16-07, 03:45 PM | I always thought that the deities and demigods listed their avatars. I would definitely state that the real gods are built more effectively than their Avatars. Also the entire "Lesser" "Greater" thing I think is a boon. A god, is a god, unless its a demigod. Whats to stop a good "greater" god of destroying a evil "lesser" god? (Besides if you're playing in the realms, Ao). Gods should be separated into three categories. Demi God Normal God Over God (Idea) Demi & Normals have a form. While Over's exist as pure energy (no avatars), and are what I would say a true god (All powerful, All knowing, All Seeing). However Overgods don't have sentience, so in truth they're just an idea. Demi Gods have as much power as an Avatar of a Normal. A Normal would have as much as 3x as much power as it's avatar. Gods can't kill other gods, so they play a chess game with mortals. Only time, another god can die if all his pieces are gone. (If you run into a 'Time of Trouble' then ya, gods can be killed.) I think it brings interesting game play. Play the chess game with the gods, and if you loose, you loose your soul or w/e. If you win, you can challenge the god, and even then you'll have to put in a LOT of effort not to be destroyed. Gods can also summon other Gods (through Blackmail or w/e), however it may be a double edge sword. Since they've become attackable, another god may ally with the attackers (usually by making them do all the work, then coming in and finishing off the attackers). Of course this is my view on how it should work. I never liked the notion that the gods can be killed so easily. If they could, then why doesn't the gods change constantly from being killed off and a new person taking their place? Or why would a Evil "greater" god, not kill off the good, lesser or demi gods (before they could set up connections)? |
| Esgarblackpox07-16-07, 03:52 PM | Well, it's plausible that other evil Gods would intervene, possibly a greater. But the "greater" and "lesser" classifications are basically there to help seperate the power of the Gods. Greater Gods are far more powerful than a lesser, and their godly abilities reflect this. |
| Manyfist07-16-07, 03:59 PM | Well, it's plausible that other evil Gods would intervene, possibly a greater. But teh "grater" and "lesser" classification is basically there to help seperate the power of the Gods. Greater Gods are far more powerful than a lesser, and their godly abilities reflect this. In mythology I don't really see them classifying such into lesser/intermediate/greater. Maybe its just be but, if you were to stat out a deity, then they should all be around the same power level. Exceptions are the kings/rulers of the pantheons. Odin, Ra, Jupiter/Zeus...etc. would have more power. I don't know, wotc made the gods so easy to beat up, its not funny. I would prefer not to stat out a god, since why do they need stats? However I see the notion, of wanting to feel epic by killing the gods. If you must stat them out, imo, I think they should use the epic level handbook. |
| Esgarblackpox07-16-07, 04:06 PM | In mythology I don't really see them classifying such into lesser/intermediate/greater. Maybe its just be but, if you were to stat out a deity, then they should all be around the same power level. Exceptions are the kings/rulers of the pantheons. Odin, Ra, Jupiter/Zeus...etc. would have more power. I don't know, wotc made the gods so easy to beat up, its not funny. I would prefer not to stat out a god, since why do they need stats? However I see the notion, of wanting to feel epic by killing the gods. If you must stat them out, imo, I think they should use the epic level handbook. Well, Dicefreak came out with a nice system for the Gods, which was designed to work with the Epic level handbook. You can create your own God (like I am for an adventure), or re-stat the old ones. My godly necromancer can control so much undead it's not even funny. And the classifications (in the Dicefreak system) help assign how powerful the deities' powers are. Lesser can warp reality with a limited wish, or example, while greater can use a full-blown wish at their slightest whim. |
| RealSorceror07-16-07, 04:22 PM | Well, it's plausible that other evil Gods would intervene, possibly a greater. But the "greater" and "lesser" classifications are basically there to help seperate the power of the Gods. Greater Gods are far more powerful than a lesser, and their godly abilities reflect this. Normally, yes, other evil gods would jump in to assist Vecna (all his secrets are pretty useful, afterall). The only problem with that is, well, we are the other evil gods. Tiamat (and I think Lolth also) where killed by Angus (think Marodin on crack). Many other evil deities are busy fighting the growing wave of goodness and light that is spreading across the world. The idea is that this group is the hidden evil that will rise up to shift the balance again. |
| Esgarblackpox07-16-07, 04:29 PM | Well, I was responding more to Manyfist's qeustion about why greaters don't just squish off lessers, as opposed to your specific scenario. |
| RealSorceror07-16-07, 04:30 PM | In mythology I don't really see them classifying such into lesser/intermediate/greater. Maybe its just be but, if you were to stat out a deity, then they should all be around the same power level. Exceptions are the kings/rulers of the pantheons. Odin, Ra, Jupiter/Zeus...etc. would have more power. I don't know, wotc made the gods so easy to beat up, its not funny. I would prefer not to stat out a god, since why do they need stats? However I see the notion, of wanting to feel epic by killing the gods. If you must stat them out, imo, I think they should use the epic level handbook. I agree. The wotc gods are wussies. We've created our own pantheon over many, many game sessions that consists largely of ascended player characters. These gods are built right. Two of them, Warhac and Bo, are only DR 6 lesser deities, but they have prestige classes and epic magic items, and they don't take crap from epic characters. Even epics of higher level can't stand up to our homebrew gods. Our several of our gods could (and have) take on whole pantheons of gods from Deities and Demigods. The killing of Vecna is just another step in replacing the wotc pantheon with real deities who are built right. |
| RealSorceror07-16-07, 04:31 PM | Well, I was responding more to Manyfist's qeustion about why greaters don't just squish off lessers, as opposed to your specific scenario. Oh, I know. I was just explaining our campaign setting so theres no confusion. :) |
| Esgarblackpox07-16-07, 04:35 PM | Oh, I know. I was just explaining our campaign setting so theres no confusion. :) Ah, okay. Well then, carry on. |
| Echoes of Deception07-16-07, 08:40 PM | Okay, so what stops Vecna from creating an undetectable portal to a fresh demiplane with new rules surrounding the mind (while you're on your way to trying to stomp him), where a person by nature of the plane lives out their desires in a way that they think is real, which isn't, but leaves behind the essence of the all individuals in the plane in the parallel locations of the current/previous plane to be dispatched by simple stabbing with steel implements? After all, I'm pretty sure that if I can think it up, a god of secrets already knows how to do it... Also, could he not simply conjure and dominate a phane from an alternate future in which your character succeeds at his quest, and then force the phane to bring in three doubles of your character at his level +10, +8 and +6 to tear you to shreds; since he already knows that you are plotting to defeat him? |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-16-07, 11:23 PM | Also, could he not simply conjure and dominate a phane from an alternate future in which your character succeeds at his quest, and then force the phane to bring in three doubles of your character at his level +10, +8 and +6 to tear you to shreds; since he already knows that you are plotting to defeat him?Part of the unique history of our world involves the fact that phanes cannot exist. In the past, a phane battling an epic hero accidentally created the worst villain in the history of our multiverse. The hero was the child of a deity, and therefore had a singular (yet mortal) nature. When the phane tried to make him fight an alternate version of himself, the phane accidentally created an evil half-dragon samurai version of the hero. This evil being killed both the hero and the phane- going on to a conquest of the planes that lasted for decades. Eventually he was put down by our current dwarven god, Angus (hehe... Moradin on crack).Since then, the gods wiped phanes from existance- so that they couldn't create any new evil warlords. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-16-07, 11:30 PM | I agree. The wotc gods are wussies. We've created our own pantheon over many, many game sessions that consists largely of ascended player characters. These gods are built right. Two of them, Warhac and Bo, are only DR 6 lesser deities, but they have prestige classes and epic magic items, and they don't take crap from epic characters. Even epics of higher level can't stand up to our homebrew gods. Our several of our gods could (and have) take on whole pantheons of gods from Deities and Demigods. The killing of Vecna is just another step in replacing the wotc pantheon with real deities who are built right. I would switch completely to the DiceFreaks rules (which aren't very different than the system we use), but they have a cap on ability scores. It means that I would need to remake some of my deities, which is as fun as wrestling a poisonous porcupine. Whurrak, I think I actually want to test that theory some time- I bet that Angus could take on a Deities and Demigods pantheon. Heck, I pretty much killed the entire Lunar pantheon from Highpoint by myself. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-17-07, 12:53 AM | i dislike the dice freaks rules for that ability cap alone. a fair amount of my deity chars. or near deity chars. ((able will never gain divine rank)) are close, or already surpass the level cap. which means that at some point every deity is doing the same amount of damage, or soaking up the same amount of damage with there salene abilities. every epic knight would have the same amount of knightly stuff, and everything would be boring. and im not just sayin this cause cain will surpass that cap here the next time we level up, honest, but it is a giant motivation for me. it also means that eventually you could have every stat maxed out, and that would also be boring, because eventually you would be putting stats in your least favorite, least used, least everything stat, just because you have nothing to put your points into anymore. granted that would take forever, but it lacks flavor in my opinion. |
| Eater_Of_Souls07-17-07, 03:21 AM | Just to ease your mind, we didn't just make epic characters and start hacking into divine backsides. These characters have been played since low level and worked their way up. The Gith king and dragon started below level 10 and earned every level they have. I started at level 4 and retired the character to NPC status. When he hit level 40, I began playing him again, leveling all the way up to 65. Our world has a detailed history and genealogy that is always being added to, and we like to keep it serious, because its important to our group. :) Yes, we do a lot of epic, world shaking things, but thats the kind of tone we like to have. Well that's a relief to know, btw you do know that gods have "alter reality" on their own pocket domains ? Oh well keep up the good work. |
| Drow6407-17-07, 03:32 AM | Tiamat (and I think Lolth also) where killed by Angus HE KILLED LOLTH?!?!? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: |
| Esgarblackpox07-17-07, 04:06 AM | Turncloak, you can always house rule the stat cap away. Nothing else in the Dicefreak rules prevents you from doing so, or hindering you. |
| RealSorceror07-17-07, 10:31 AM | HE KILLED LOLTH?!?!? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: Oh, don't worry, we have new Drow deities. One of them is just as hot as Lolth, but she doesn't do the whole praying mantis thing. |
| RealSorceror07-17-07, 10:34 AM | Turncloak, you can always house rule the stat cap away. Nothing else in the Dicefreak rules prevents you from doing so, or hindering you. My thoughts exactly. Its not like we are gonna take these new gods and play them in other playgroups. I mean, who wants Whurrak around? Hes a Collossal+ robot God with a city inside him. Other DMs don't want to have to deal with that mess. And Ojike the Rat Lord? Nobody wants a god made of rat hiveminds. No, our cool but weird deities aren't goin' anywhere. |
| Urithair07-17-07, 04:12 PM | Killed Vecna in one round? I guess you fought the 'official' Vecna, failing to infer that as a god of secrets his true power is, well, secret. On paper Vecna isn't very scary, he is only a lesser diety, and contrary to popular opinion doesn't have powerful minions (he has a bit of a trust issue after the whole Kas incident). BUT, he did have a few highlights in his (un)life, including being descended from the Ancient Brethren (Which might include such figures as the Lady of Pain), taught by Mok'slyk (the personification of arcane magic), ascending to godhood, escaping from the demiplane of dread (said to be impossible, never been done before), entering Sigil (said to be impossible, never been done before), and causing the Shadow Plane to go from backwater demiplane to multiverse spaning transitive plane (which, according to RAW, links your mulitiverse to all other multiverses). So the real question is, how do you know you killed him? I mean aside from the DM just telling you. Is he dead, or was he just using you to make it appear he is dead, making his continued existence an even greater secret? To quote someone I can't remember, "If anyone would open the console of the multiverse and type in /cheat, it would be Vecna." |
| RealSorceror07-17-07, 04:24 PM | Killed Vecna in one round? I guess you fought the 'official' Vecna, failing to infer that as a god of secrets his true power is, well, secret. On paper Vecna isn't very scary, he is only a lesser diety, and contrary to popular opinion doesn't have powerful minions (he has a bit of a trust issue after the whole Kas incident). BUT, he did have a few highlights in his (un)life, including being descended from the Ancient Brethren (Which might include such figures as the Lady of Pain), taught by Mok'slyk (the personification of arcane magic, ascending to godhood, escaping from the demiplane of dread (said to be impossible, never been done before), entering Sigil (said to be impossible, never been done before), and causing the Shadow Plane to go from backwater demiplane to multiverse spaning transitive plane (which, according to RAW, links your mulitiverse to all other multiverses). So the real question is, how do you know you killed him? I mean aside from the DM just telling you. Is he dead, or was he just using you to make it appear he is dead, making his continued existence an even greater secret? To quote someone I can't remember, "If anyone would open the console of the multiverse and type in /cheat, it would be Vecna." Excellent points, and as I said in the OP, gods and liches are two things that have a nasty habit of not properly dieing after you kill them, and Vecna is both a god and a lich. He also has an uncanny knack for survining unsurvivable situations. So, did I kill Vecna? I have no idea. I know for certian that I ****-stomped his peons, stole his castle, and destroyed his hand and eye. I've definitely killed a lich that looked and sounded just like Vecna, and it was not an illusion. My divine power has also increased slightly, as I am now a demi-god and not a hero-deity. So, maybe hes still hanging out at his plan B summer home. If so, he can come visit whenever he likes, but if I catch wind of any lich-gods named Wecna, well, its show time. |
| Esgarblackpox07-17-07, 08:36 PM | Wouldn't that just be the kicker if Vecna was really a demilich using magic ot make it look like he had a ful body? |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-17-07, 11:42 PM | HE KILLED LOLTH?!?!? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: Hehehe... I did that. Don't worry, our new drow goddess is just as cool. And as for Vecna, if he really is alive after the beating the gith king, salazzar,and the dragon put on him, he's at least decided to remove himself from our very dangerous multiverse. I really don't want people to think we are just killing gods for giggles. In our world (which is extremely story-driven), we almost run "period piece" adventures. In the time frame of our trio of evil, Ragnarok is about to break out- which is inadvertantly started by our evil band. In ragnarok, most of the deities (especially the Greyhawk pantheon) are completely wiped out. The final battle of the war begins with a deital seige engine going off on a divine battle field- a seige engine that completely strips all of the gods of their divine ranks and magical abilities. Only the few gods who could defend themselves without magic or their deital abilities survived- most of them were our player characters (Angus),who are now our current pantheon of gods. In other words, if Vecna didn't die in the battle with our characters, he'd die in the final battles of Ragnarok. I tried to think of it as giving the Maimed Lord his chance to shine before he is removed from the history of our setting. |
| Echoes of Deception07-18-07, 12:09 AM | I'm depressed by the idea that you killed Vecna. Aside from the fact that he's the god of secrets and therefore knows secrets, it seems that your DM may have forgotten that he can also make secrets. For instance, did you know that your trusty magic weapon has the unfortunate side effect of casting a touch-range variation of Vengeful Gaze of God on its wielder when exposed to a mix of cornugon and moon elf blood, destroying itself in the process? I'm not saying that's true, but Vecna could well have made it true, as long as it was a secret... |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 09:25 AM | I'm depressed by the idea that you killed Vecna. Hey, I'm a way sweeter god of secrets than Vecna. Besides, he would have just died in Ragnorak anyway. Aside from the fact that he's the god of secrets and therefore knows secrets, it seems that your DM may have forgotten that he can also make secrets. For instance, did you know that your trusty magic weapon has the unfortunate side effect of casting a touch-range variation of Vengeful Gaze of God on its wielder when exposed to a mix of cornugon and moon elf blood, destroying itself in the process? I'm not saying that's true, but Vecna could well have made it true, as long as it was a secret... That won't work. I was weilding the Sword of Kas. I even ressurected Kas himself. I was prepared for this. |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 09:39 AM | Hehehe... I did that. Don't worry, our new drow goddess is just as cool. And as for Vecna, if he really is alive after the beating the gith king, salazzar,and the dragon put on him, he's at least decided to remove himself from our very dangerous multiverse. I really don't want people to think we are just killing gods for giggles. In our world (which is extremely story-driven), we almost run "period piece" adventures. In the time frame of our trio of evil, Ragnarok is about to break out- which is inadvertantly started by our evil band. In ragnarok, most of the deities (especially the Greyhawk pantheon) are completely wiped out. The final battle of the war begins with a deital seige engine going off on a divine battle field- a seige engine that completely strips all of the gods of their divine ranks and magical abilities. Only the few gods who could defend themselves without magic or their deital abilities survived- most of them were our player characters (Angus),who are now our current pantheon of gods. In other words, if Vecna didn't die in the battle with our characters, he'd die in the final battles of Ragnarok. I tried to think of it as giving the Maimed Lord his chance to shine before he is removed from the history of our setting. A deital seige engine?! OMG! Can Whurrak fight it? C'mon, he doesn't need divine powers to fight giant robots! Wait, are we talking about Ravana? I could punch me some giant demon lord. |
| I_am_an_undead07-18-07, 10:52 AM | Hey, I'm a way sweeter god of secrets than Vecna. :thinks: I'm... not sure that you make a "way sweeter god of secrets than Vecna". But feel free to prove me wrong by giving reasons why your character is so much cooler than the maimed lord (If he really is, then I want to know more about him:)). |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 01:20 PM | :thinks: I'm... not sure that you make a "way sweeter god of secrets than Vecna". But feel free to prove me wrong by giving reasons why your character is so much cooler than the maimed lord (If he really is, then I want to know more about him:)). I'm not sure you wanted my entire life history, but I'm gonna wright it down, becuase I myself have never written it down in such detail. I'm the fallen savior of an entire world that was formerly ruled by Mind Flayers. I begged Vecna to give me the secrets to destroy Ilsinsine and the Flayers, but he refused (the grudge begins). I used the power of the Taint and Maho to power my magic, corrupting myself but gaining enough power to destroy normal Illithids. I also became a Cleric of Wee Jas in order to command the undead, whom the illithids hate. Ilsinsine eventually takes note of me and decides to put an end to the competition. I lose horribly, but am able to escape thanks to my friend sacrificing himself to distract the god (that poor, poor gnome. He wanted to be a dwarf so bad). I've been wearing the same Mask of the Skull since lvl 4. Originally it was to cover up my accursed pretty-boy face so I appeared more intimidating, but now it covers the scars I recieved in my fight with Ilsinine. I transported the city of Golgoth and its citizens to an alternate, Flayer-free material plane. Angus, the local Dwarven god of glory, believes I am a sinister, evil being and surrounds the city in jade. After discovering the Flayer-controlled plane, he plane shifts there and annihilates Illsinine. I begin to hate him for not recognizing my good intentions, and for succeeding so easily where I had failed. I discovered the young warlords Zith and Cain, who had just destroyed the Githyanki lich-queen. I mentor and advise them. Although they seek to conquer all of the multiverse, I convince them to destroy and control the lower planes first, secretly wanting to buy the upper planes more time (I have come to accept that Zith is no longer under control). Only recently, I have began to use Zith and Cain to destroy evil deities (conviently avioding good ones) whom I despise (such as Vecna) or who's power I crave (such as Nurall). They are all too eager to comply, as they also want more divine power. |
| Khael07-18-07, 01:28 PM | So... You've got nothing to suggest you would be any use as God of secrets, let alone better than Vecna. Does look like you'll be looking for Baal, Mephisto and Diablo to get their titles instead though... |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-18-07, 02:08 PM | A deital seige engine?! OMG! Can Whurrak fight it? C'mon, he doesn't need divine powers to fight giant robots! Wait, are we talking about Ravana? I could punch me some giant demon lord. Nope, it wasn't Ravana- he's a completely different story. We never actually got to see the seige engine in that game. The armies of the good and evil deities wre fighting each other, Angus was killing the titans of earth and fire, japheph was healing Angus, Junior was fighting Tarrasque people- then it happened. There was a bright flash of light, our god powers were gone, our magic items didn't work, and the armies began to tear everything apart. One minute, everything was fine; the next, Angus is defending Thor as he's bleeding to death. It was crazy. The DM told us that the "Nullify Deital Abilities" was a one-time use of the epic major artifact seige engine, but I don't see why we couldn't create a giant robot for you to fight, Whurrak. It would be sweet. |
| captianhowdy07-18-07, 02:29 PM | Ya, but how do I keep him still long enough to kill? I expect he'll just plane shift away as soon as an army shows up on his front lawn. Also, a thought occured to me. Would a Miracle spell combined with True Ressurrection bring back Kas? :D I'd do it just to see a lich-god soil his robes. Actually sadly no. Hes a vestige now. Dragon mag |
| Eater_Of_Souls07-18-07, 02:34 PM | As for stats in deities & demigods I think it mentioned somewhere that stats were ment for deity vs. deity competitions, so stats would need some revising when players are concerned. |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 02:38 PM | So... You've got nothing to suggest you would be any use as God of secrets, let alone better than Vecna. Don't worry, I'm working on that. :) Also, I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, so theres that. Does look like you'll be looking for Baal, Mephisto and Diablo to get their titles instead though... We kinda already killed Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and that Yugaloth lord guy with the forgetable name. ps. Baal was a wussy. |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 02:47 PM | Actually sadly no. Hes a vestige now. Dragon mag Well too bad. I'm god of secrets now and I say Kas is alive agian (or unalive, or whatever a vampire is supposed to be) :mad: |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 03:01 PM | As for stats in deities & demigods I think it mentioned somewhere that stats were ment for deity vs. deity competitions, so stats would need some revising when players are concerned. Well first, we are deities (although I was technically a hero deity). Second, Vecna would have deid just as fast against any one of our homebrew gods. He is just very poorly built. |
| turalisj07-18-07, 03:05 PM | Which is where the revising comes in. Give him some nasty, secret based powers. Make him something to be feared. |
| captianhowdy07-18-07, 03:10 PM | Well too bad. I'm god of secrets now and I say Kas is alive agian (or unalive, or whatever a vampire is supposed to be) :mad: Lol ok. What would have also been some cool rpin is if you added enough binder to be able to bind him. On the final fight with Vecna, willingly submit to his influence, and have Kas (through you) and Venca finish up what they started. |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 03:20 PM | Lol ok. What would have also been some cool rpin is if you added enough binder to be able to bind him. On the final fight with Vecna, willingly submit to his influence, and have Kas (through you) and Venca finish up what they started. We did have a Binder at the battle (Twin, a 23lvl Changeling), but the real Kas is way stronger. I had already ressed Kas before the fight, and he was with us in the throne room, but Vecna popped before anyone else could get a hit in. Also, I just had a peek at Monster Manuel V, and there is a God-Blooded template. It requires that you collect some of a deities blood, and Vecna is mentioned specifically (even though he doesn't appear to have blood anymore). So, we have this perfectly good dead god corpse here..... |
| turalisj07-18-07, 03:27 PM | But wouldn't Vecna, being a lich and all, be able to reform? I've always imagined him being a level20 wizard (or beguiler if you have PHB2) level20 rouge with 10 levels in arcane trickster. |
| captianhowdy07-18-07, 03:30 PM | We did have a Binder at the battle (Twin, a 23lvl Changeling), but the real Kas is way stronger. I had already ressed Kas before the fight, and he was with us in the throne room, but Vecna popped before anyone else could get a hit in. Also, I just had a peek at Monster Manuel V, and there is a God-Blooded template. It requires that you collect some of a deities blood, and Vecna is mentioned specifically (even though he doesn't appear to have blood anymore). So, we have this perfectly good dead god corpse here..... I saw that template browsing through it. How good is it? I would definantly take the oppertunity. Id be a real moral breaker to Venca if when he reformed, you killed him agian with his own blood as a booster. |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 03:33 PM | But wouldn't Vecna, being a lich and all, be able to reform? I've always imagined him being a level20 wizard (or beguiler if you have PHB2) level20 rouge with 10 levels in arcane trickster. Well, he could reform, if I hadn't destroyed his Hand and Eye, which the DM determined are the vessels for his soul. :) (check a few pages back. I discussed the whole encounter in detail) |
| RealSorceror07-18-07, 03:43 PM | I saw that template browsing through it. How good is it? I would definantly take the oppertunity. Id be a real moral breaker to Venca if when he reformed, you killed him agian with his own blood as a booster. The slogan for Monster Manual V should read, "Hey, at least we don't suck as bad as Monster Manual IV". It has a lot of interesting templates, such as the Dragons of the Great Game, and a lot of monsters that would be personally useful to me (the Skull Lord, the Thoon Mind-Flayers, etc). It looks much better than MM IV, which was the worst of the lot in my opinion (my apologies to any Spawn of Tiamat fans). Its not as good as I and III, but what is? Also, Vecna's blood causes everyone in existance to forget you ever existed, and makes you immune to all divination and scrying. It also gives you an aura with a mind-blank like effect that causes people to ignore you. Almost makes me wish Vecna would come back, because he'd have no friggin' clue who I am. "Hal from the future, suckers." |
| turalisj07-18-07, 03:46 PM | The new monster in MIV were good. The races with classes slopped on for filler weren't. |
| Khael07-18-07, 05:54 PM | We kinda already killed Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and that Yugaloth lord guy with the forgetable name. ps. Baal was a wussy. Didn't beat Ahriman, Diablo, Baal or Meph... I mean come on, Diablo is so badass if you kill him he just drives you mad and makes you let him use your body 'til you grow into his old one. Meph is the lord of hatred, and Baal can corrupt the world's spirit incarnate. Wussy him that. And Ahriman's a snake the length of the lower planes whos blood drops form into full HD pit fiends, and is planning the end of existance. Without the cliched 'dying alone with the heroes' bit. (Yes, I am that guy who no matter what you kill, will hand out a list of 'things to do' - I tend follow the school of 'You did not beat god X/canon figure Y, Your DM downplayed him/her/it so you could believe some time you might be able to damage them...', no matter how good the DM actually is (By which I mean at being fair/playing to rules etc., not as in 'is it fun' since I'd tend to assume thats a no-brainer in stuff like this.)) Also, Vecna's blood causes everyone in existance to forget you ever existed, and makes you immune to all divination and scrying. It also gives you an aura with a mind-blank like effect that causes people to ignore you. Hello Aornis Hades...(Character out of a book - She and her brothers all had great powers-hers being the ability to wipe herself completely from the mind of anyone she wanted.) |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-19-07, 02:42 AM | all i know is people are dead and shuld certain liches come back, im using them as a weapon against the wall. always wanted to grappla lich and take that negitive 10 or 20 before slamming him against his own allies and his own castle. Cain- "take that you creepy undead freak of nature!" *slam slam slam.* Lich ((possibly reformed vecna.))- "oh god my freakin last eye popped out! now im getting sick cause i can still see through it!" *wet sack noises as he begins turning to mush* "crap! its heading for the stairs!" ((thats how i saw our battle against vlaketh, or whatever its name was, the lich queen over the gith, going. until a great wyrm red dragon ambushed us and cain had to lay down his life for zith)) |
| RealSorceror07-19-07, 09:38 AM | "crap! its heading for the stairs!" Best inside-joke evar. STAIRS! |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-19-07, 02:38 PM | Best inside-joke evar. STAIRS! STAIRS!!! :P |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-19-07, 04:58 PM | ((ok so the scene is vecna newly reformed being wheeled around in a wheelchair in his castel by alter shaped cain.)) "so mister V. how is your recovery going huh? everything ok? did you get those puppies we sent over?" -cain "why yes, those undead puppies where adorable, i think i will name one chachi." -vecna "well, i will be sure to have a few...STAIRS!!!!!" -cain pushing vecna down a set of stairs in a wheelchair, leaving him unable to do anything accept fall...cain giggles. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-19-07, 09:46 PM | ((ok so the scene is vecna newly reformed being wheeled around in a wheelchair in his castel by alter shaped cain.)) "so mister V. how is your recovery going huh? everything ok? did you get those puppies we sent over?" -cain "why yes, those undead puppies where adorable, i think i will name one chachi." -vecna "well, i will be sure to have a few...STAIRS!!!!!" -cain pushing vecna down a set of stairs in a wheelchair, leaving him unable to do anything accept fall...cain giggles.This is now the technique we refer to as an "Xavierbane weapon." Well, with Vecna dead, or at least running and screaming from our multiverse, the Gith intends to send the giant sleeper cells to invade the other continents of our material plane. I'm sure the celestial armies will leap to the aid of the pathetic mortals, leaving the layers of Mount Celestia weak and ripe for conquest. If Salazzar doesn't have anyone else he wants removed from his deital hit list, I'm quite ready to stomp a mudhole through the forces of purity and light. All those who skulk in darkness while waiting to achieve their true greatness, your time of suffering is at an end. Hear my call, seize your destiny, and bend a knee. Serve me, and watch your enemies kneel at your feet. A new age is at hand- ride with us, or be swept away by the torrent of our army. With dawn comes the death of good's dominion. |
| Esgarblackpox07-19-07, 11:36 PM | Hey Dwarf, will my homegrown True neutral God be safe from your wrath? Heh. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-19-07, 11:57 PM | Hey Dwarf, will my homegrown True neutral God be safe from your wrath? Heh.Well, I guess it depends- The gith king will probably kill you, or at least try to (he's only ECL 32, divine rank 4), if you don't join him. :mad: My dwarf is probably strong enough to kill you (75th character level, divine rank 20), but he has no reason to. My Dwarven God would probably leave you alone as long as you don't mess with him, his followers, or his descendants. He's fairly easy-going if you aren't evil- some of his best drinkin buddies are neutral. :) |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-20-07, 01:01 AM | All those who skulk in darkness while waiting to achieve their true greatness, your time of suffering is at an end. Hear my call, seize your destiny, and bend a knee. Serve me, and watch your enemies kneel at your feet. A new age is at hand- ride with us, or be swept away by the torrent of our army. With dawn comes the death of good's dominion. this is so going on all the giant sized animated poster littered over the lands |
| Esgarblackpox07-20-07, 01:21 AM | Well, I guess it depends- The gith king will probably kill you, or at least try to (he's only ECL 32, divine rank 4), if you don't join him. :mad: My dwarf is probably strong enough to kill you (75th character level, divine rank 20), but he has no reason to. My Dwarven God would probably leave you alone as long as you don't mess with him, his followers, or his descendants. He's fairly easy-going if you aren't evil- some of his best drinkin buddies are neutral. :) Nope, not evil. In fact, he's known as "The balancer". Sure, he may be into necromancy, but he has his reasons. And your dwarf god would probably kick his spinal column. He's only a level 60 demilich with DvR 18. I doubt even his AC of 182 would save him from your wrath. So he gets to live for another, eh, eternity (in your world;) )! Yay. |
| RealSorceror07-20-07, 09:42 AM | this is so going on all the giant sized animated poster littered over the lands I was just thinkin' that. If Salazzar doesn't have anyone else he wants removed from his deital hit list, I'm quite ready to stomp a mudhole through the forces of purity and light. *Must stall. Must give Celestia more time. Mustn't succumb to total moral depravity.* :lightbulb I got it! Hey Zith and Cain.................you guys wanna go kill Garl Glittergold? Cain, you can play as Cobbler! C'mon, you hate gnomes more than you hate celestials. *Sal pats himself on the back for a job well done* |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-20-07, 10:26 AM | Must stall. Must give Celestia more time. Mustn't succumb to total moral depravity.I'm still quite surprised that these little pukes have never fought anything good- the gith king sassed a paladin when I first made him, but that's it. They've killed just as many evil things as any epic good-aligned character. I guess I'll need to make up for lost time in the layers of celestia. :P Hey Zith and Cain.................you guys wanna go kill Garl Glittergold? Cain, you can play as Cobbler! C'mon, you hate gnomes more than you hate celestials.I'm all about slaying some gnomes. Its funny, I hate gnomes almost as much as I love their dwarven kin. You really shouldn't get me started on my feelings towards celestials- you know what Angus would say (mmmm...Mitsuko), and the Gith would probably have a similar, yet depraved, answer. |
| RealSorceror07-20-07, 10:44 AM | I'm still quite surprised that these little pukes have never fought anything good- the gith king sassed a paladin when I first made him, but that's it. They've killed just as many evil things as any epic good-aligned character. I guess I'll need to make up for lost time in the layers of celestia. :P Oh, all right. We'll do a full 4-6 hour roleplay for the conquering of the Celestial Heavens, possibly tomarrow. I say roleplay, because theres really nothing there that can challenge you in combat, although I may have Heironieous and/or Pelor there, and they don't go down easy unless you're an Ungart. I'm all about slaying some gnomes. Its funny, I hate gnomes almost as much as I love their dwarven kin. You really shouldn't get me started on my feelings towards celestials- you know what Angus would say (mmmm...Mitsuko), and the Gith would probably have a similar, yet depraved, answer. Nah, I'll save Garl for a different game. Killing the god of gnomes should be in one of our ******** games, because gnome killing is funny. Edit: What? You can't say ********? |
| turalisj07-20-07, 07:42 PM | I'd love to be in one of your games.... sounds funny. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-22-07, 03:37 PM | x.x awwwwwwww i wish i was told that gnome killing might have been happening, koblar would have loved killing glittergold, but theres no one else that would have been in on that, and besides, it would have been like a round or two of combat. he has nothing but the extra sneak attack damage as his epic feat selection. that and his hide and move silently migh get passed most deities...if they didnt cheat..yeah, im looking at you angus, you and your heat vision...cursed dwarves.... |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-22-07, 03:52 PM | and kord is now labled weiny by the god of dragons. weiner pants...>.> the new loosor even.. |
| RealSorceror07-23-07, 10:59 AM | and kord is now labled weiny by the god of dragons. weiner pants...>.> the new loosor even.. "From down-town!" :D Ya, I barely tried in that fight, but if I'd played them at full power, the battle would never have been over in under 2-1/2 hours. I also fudged the stats a little bit so Law could get some attacks in. It was really just another instance of "You guys would eventually win, and I have no reason to drag this out, because it won't be more fun, and Pelor won't get any cooler." |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-23-07, 12:31 PM | that and his hide and move silently migh get passed most deities...if they didnt cheat..yeah, im looking at you angus, you and your heat vision...cursed dwarves....I'll be looking for you on the platform when the two pantheons clash Koblar.....or was it Cain who was sassing me. I guess I'll just blast them both to be sure. :mad: |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-24-07, 01:17 AM | *cough* koblar dosent want anything to do with non pie related things....and this is definatly a non pie related thing...and cain would not be so stupid as to openly sass angus, that would be mega stupid. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-24-07, 01:18 AM | "From down-town!" :D Ya, I barely tried in that fight, but if I'd played them at full power, the battle would never have been over in under 2-1/2 hours. I also fudged the stats a little bit so Law could get some attacks in. It was really just another instance of "You guys would eventually win, and I have no reason to drag this out, because it won't be more fun, and Pelor won't get any cooler." hes still a weiner pants >.> thinks he can go around killing dragons...freking weinerlooser. yeah, new word, weinerlooser. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-24-07, 01:35 AM | hes still a weiner pants >.> thinks he can go around killing dragons...freking weinerlooser. yeah, new word, weinerlooser.My only regret is that Zith impaled Moradin before Angus could sass him about being a stronger, more powerful, and cooler dwarven god than him. Hehehe, what warrior deity has levels in expert? Look out everyone, I might just become the dwarven god of modesty while I'm at it. :P |
| RealSorceror07-24-07, 02:00 PM | My only regret is that Zith impaled Moradin before Angus could sass him about being a stronger, more powerful, and cooler dwarven god than him. Hehehe, what warrior deity has levels in expert? Look out everyone, I might just become the dwarven god of modesty while I'm at it. :P Just bring Moradin back as a mortal and have him make all your crap for you. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-24-07, 09:12 PM | Just bring Moradin back as a mortal and have him make all your crap for you.No thanks, just to prove that I'm cooler- I'm also a better craftsman than Moradin (at least when it comes to Taxidermy, and Weaponsmithing). I don't need 15 levels in Expert to tell me how to skin my enemies properly :cool: The Coat of Mammon is the neatest artifact in Angus' inventory. |
| turalisj07-24-07, 09:30 PM | Raise every god you kill as 1st level characters with no memory of their past. Now THAT would be interesting for a campaign. |
| RealSorceror07-25-07, 09:12 AM | Raise every god you kill as 1st level characters with no memory of their past. Now THAT would be interesting for a campaign. I call Olidammara. Only this time, hes gonna be a damn Arcane Trickster. Actually, I really like this idea. Thanks, turalis. |
| turalisj07-25-07, 04:28 PM | If you do this, I want in. I call Corellen. He's going to be a duskblade. |
| RealSorceror07-25-07, 04:45 PM | If you do this, I want in. I call Corellen. He's going to be a duskblade. Ok, but no eyeliner this time. We like our male elven gods without makeup. War paint and/or the blood of your enemies is acceptable. I like Corellen, but the picture in the Deities and Demigods makes him look like a little girly man. Or an exceptionally ugly woman. I'm not sure. And yes, duskblade is just about the epitome of all things elven. |
| turalisj07-25-07, 05:06 PM | We could say that the core pantheon got dethroned. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-26-07, 12:23 PM | We could say that the core pantheon got dethroned.I did that. :D Arghh, as much as I hate to say this- I call Moradin. He's gonna be either a Knight, Paladin, or Fighter with levels in Dwarven Defender- maybe even the Faith Scion from unearthed arcana, I could see him using the Hammer of All Souls. Anyhoosen, if I build him then this time he will be made right- no more levels wasted in Expert. |
| turalisj07-26-07, 02:26 PM | Then we can see who could really win: An elf who can cast true strike and disintegrate through his sword, or a dwarf version of sir Lancelot. :P A good place to do this would be Rpol.net. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-26-07, 11:50 PM | x.x all the "cool" deities are taken...all i got left are like Pelor, and....*shudder.* Kord...and i refuse to play Kord...freakin weiner pants...but i think i could make a cool pelor...wait, no i cant, cause i already have a cooler version of pelor..but not pelor..x.x, there are no more cool gods...*rant.* |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-26-07, 11:57 PM | x.x all the "cool" deities are taken...all i got left are like Pelor, and....*shudder.* Kord...and i refuse to play Kord...freakin weiner pants...but i think i could make a cool pelor...wait, no i cant, cause i already have a cooler version of pelor..but not pelor..x.x, there are no more cool gods...*rant.*What about Bahamut, Cain? You know you want to play a fledgling dragon god. :) |
| turalisj07-27-07, 12:02 AM | No one said we have to be purely good. We can use neutral aligned gods (and goddesses) too. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-27-07, 12:16 AM | No one said we have to be purely good. We can use neutral aligned gods (and goddesses) too. I would, but I'm type-cast as the Dwarf-it is my curse and destiny:P |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-27-07, 12:23 AM | bleh, ive got a cooler dragon god, not to mention the way we had bahamut die was saddening, and pains my kobold heart. plus i think the new dragon deity would be a little pissy if he was brought back...she wouldent see it as a ddanger, she woul see it as an insult...bahamut joined the "earth" of his own free will...sorta. i dont think he should be brought back, though if the deity combat hits the pot and cain goes. X.X then i might want to play his son...>.> the new dragon of balance...who i have already made a cool backstory for...you know all thos cool like 12 charictor levels we got ((you got more.)) cain was off training and meeting with a certain shiny dragon upholding the good side of things...convinced her of the right and proper way of dragons, in which they are united against all else that would threaten them...and from this union came a son, a son of shadow and light...brought up by one of the single uninvolved deitys, the lorekeeper...you know who im talkin about dwarf and salazar. but i hope it dosent come down to that. >.> |
| RealSorceror07-27-07, 09:55 AM | bleh, ive got a cooler dragon god, not to mention the way we had bahamut die was saddening, and pains my kobold heart. plus i think the new dragon deity would be a little pissy if he was brought back...she wouldent see it as a ddanger, she woul see it as an insult...bahamut joined the "earth" of his own free will...sorta. i dont think he should be brought back, though if the deity combat hits the pot and cain goes. X.X 1) We could always play them in one of our alternate worlds. 2) They might rise spontaneously rejuvinate. They have been gods for a loooong time. 3) If you really don't want to play, you can always DM. (also, not it). then i might want to play his son...>.> the new dragon of balance...who i have already made a cool backstory for...you know all thos cool like 12 charictor levels we got ((you got more.)) cain was off training and meeting with a certain shiny dragon upholding the good side of things...convinced her of the right and proper way of dragons, in which they are united against all else that would threaten them...and from this union came a son, a son of shadow and light...brought up by one of the single uninvolved deitys, the lorekeeper...you know who im talkin about dwarf and salazar. Rat Lord? :D lol Ya, I know you mean the Truenamer. Btw, you still need to make that guy. If you never playtest the system, he'll suck. |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2007-27-07, 12:52 PM | 1) We could always play them in one of our alternate worlds. 2) They might rise spontaneously rejuvinate. They have been gods for a loooong time. 3) If you really don't want to play, you can always DM. (also, not it). Rat Lord? :D lol Ya, I know you mean the Truenamer. Btw, you still need to make that guy. If you never playtest the system, he'll suck. Not it :P Yeah, if you never actually use him, he'll just be a horrible character- roleplay value aside. |
| RealSorceror07-27-07, 01:55 PM | Not it :P Yeah, if you never actually use him, he'll just be a horrible character- roleplay value aside. *power fist* :D |
| turalisj07-27-07, 03:55 PM | Not it! |
| RealSorceror07-27-07, 04:05 PM | A good place to do this would be Rpol.net. I've honestly never roleplayed online (MMORGs don't count). How does it usually work? I can't imagine it being as good as the real thing, and I would think it would be extra difficult for the DM, since he'd have to type a whole lot. Also, how do you make sure nobody is cheating on their dice rolls? I don't trust myself. (You hear that, me? I've got my eye on us. :shifty: ) |
| turalisj07-27-07, 04:11 PM | There is a dice roller on the site. If you want, I can send you a link to the independent adventure game I'm running. It's in a homebrew world. |
| RealSorceror07-27-07, 04:20 PM | There is a dice roller on the site. If you want, I can send you a link to the independent adventure game I'm running. It's in a homebrew world. Sure, maybe if I play a game or two I'll get used to the idea. However, today and tomarrow my group will be playing the other games we've been planning, and I have a final on Monday, so I probably won't get around to playing for a while. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold07-29-07, 05:33 PM | x.x ugg, online rollers, sometimes worse then WotC officiale dies...i always get crap for rolls on those things... |
| turalisj08-05-07, 10:34 AM | I had 18, 18, 17, 17, 16, 14 for my latest character :P Could always do point buy. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold08-07-07, 01:23 AM | *screeches.* point buy system s even worse. you either end up with all mediocre stats, or you end up having 4 crappy stats and two amazing ones. which isent always a bad thing, but then you end up with the big stereo type reaping maughler that cant count to 20 without his shoes off....if he has ten toes and whatnot. |
| RealSorceror08-07-07, 10:03 AM | *screeches.* point buy system s even worse. you either end up with all mediocre stats, or you end up having 4 crappy stats and two amazing ones. which isent always a bad thing, but then you end up with the big stereo type reaping maughler that cant count to 20 without his shoes off....if he has ten toes and whatnot. Well, we could always just use more points. Nobody said we had to have a certian amount. I mean, they are former deities. We could have like 42 points or something. |
| turalisj08-07-07, 05:20 PM | Or we could even use set stats. |
| RealSorceror08-07-07, 05:48 PM | Or we could even use set stats. Just as long we don't have anything below a 12, and we have at least one 18. Even in a low power game, I just feel naked without good ability scores........lol, we don't even play low powered games. |
| HellflameArcanite08-07-07, 08:02 PM | OK, so you've already solved this, but just on killing a deity I think this should be true: since this is a campaign-changing event, it should not be based on game mechanics. It should be a heck of a lot of roleplaying. An epic battle of minds as well as magics. |
| turalisj08-07-07, 10:19 PM | Just as long we don't have anything below a 12, and we have at least one 18. Even in a low power game, I just feel naked without good ability scores........lol, we don't even play low powered games. 46, 32, 32, 30, 26, 18. Almost the same stats as demogorgon :P |
| RealSorceror08-08-07, 09:48 AM | 46, 32, 32, 30, 26, 18. Almost the same stats as demogorgon :P If we are gonna use high stats, why not just use the standard Divine Array? Its 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24. Those are the stats that all Hero deities and true deities recieve upon ascension. Also, Demogorgan is a wussy. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold08-08-07, 04:30 PM | lol, hey, wasent that the freak that was held down by the non epic archer and like only five of his best friends while me and zith gave him a few body piercings? |
| RealSorceror08-08-07, 04:57 PM | lol, hey, wasent that the freak that was held down by the non epic archer and like only five of his best friends while me and zith gave him a few body piercings? Yes, Demogorgon was indeed killed by a malevolent group hug. Y'know, come to think of it, Zith kinda cleaned house on all the powerful fiends and celestials. We really don't have anyone ruling the 9 Hells or 7 Heavens. Theres nobody in the Abyss either. What are we gonna do about that? Make more evil deities? |
| TurnCloak_Kobold08-08-07, 08:59 PM | no, we have generals doing that, and about a couple hundred warforged ready to jump down the throat of anyone that thinks there gona take it from zith. i dont know about celestia though, we never actually fineshed, we just kinda said. "hey sweet, we just killed off some really bad deities....woot. now what?" "well we level up ad call it a day." "sweet!" |
| Arniha08-10-07, 04:05 AM | I know that you've already beaten him, but, why didn't you just research and learn Karsus's Avatar? It can be used by a fortieth level character, and you're far above that. |
| TurnCloak_Kobold08-11-07, 01:12 AM | kara-whosa-whatsits avatar? never heard of the guy. ^_^ changelings gona have to answer that one for me, or maybe the dwarf, if he mannages to break away from that siren....>.> and i mean that in the best possible way mitzigo. let him sleep. zombie dwarves dont make god DMs, not even when there playing as zombies....not that i minded, especially since we finnaly made it through a good portion of the ravenloft terror streets tonight with little hassel... *hint, use the roofs, zombies dont climb well >.> silly zombies.* i just hope that i remember to use my exblades curse ability when the time comes to fight the vampire at the end...dont need a vampire running around with full abilities and whatnot. furthermore my awesome panther buddy can inflict anaditional two points of unluckyness to him, brining his scary factor down by four instead of two....darn being one level away from the bigger version of the curse....>.> a vampire taking -6 to everything would rock my socks off...power attack with a syth, i think so... |
| Dwarven_Fighter_DR2008-14-07, 05:01 PM | Yes, Demogorgon was indeed killed by a malevolent group hug. Y'know, come to think of it, Zith kinda cleaned house on all the powerful fiends and celestials. We really don't have anyone ruling the 9 Hells or 7 Heavens. Theres nobody in the Abyss either. What are we gonna do about that? Make more evil deities?What treason is this Salazzar? I am the one true master of evil. Muwahahahahaha... I finally decided to come up for some air, so I figured I'd come check on you. It's like looking away from a zerg base for too long- you come back and they are everywhere.:P |
| TurnCloak_Kobold08-14-07, 06:21 PM | ALL HAIL THE ZURG! take that you filthy terrans!.....i mean...*cough* we werent plannin nothin, i swears! >.> i think he was reffering to the lack of controll we seem to be excerting around those areas, a problem i believe was shot down by the argument that the warforged are there, and not much more than an epic party or a deity is going to stop such a large force made up of epic warforged, the new ruin construct, and other said beings of power that now hold those areas, not to mention a very large crab like construct city. man, this sounds like an awesome campaighn setting for soem groups at least near epic level....hmm, sneak past the armies, get on board giant city, either by force or more sneaking, bash some gythianki in the absence of zith cain and all the the other power players there....and give them a goal...yes, its all coming together...>.> |
| Chanmanm808-15-07, 10:54 AM | I'm a bit confused about the Kas resurrection. I know that this is ultimately up the each DM on how this is dealt with, but in terms of standard materials and the history, I interpreted that kas is among those from 2e and 1e that either aren't able to exist anymore or just barely (as Vestiges, which is practically just an insignificant echo): "When Vecna was defeated during his bid for control of Oerth, Kas was freed from his centuries of imprisonment, only to find himself facing a shapeless wall of mist. When it cleared, he was master of the domain of Tovag, across the Burning Peaks from Vecna's domain of Cavitius. Kas waged an endless war of attrition with Vecna's forces in the hopes of retrieving the Sword of Kas from Vecna's citadel, where he erroneously believed Vecna held it. The Burning Peaks cluster did not appear in the 3rd Edition Ravenloft Campaign Setting, because White Wolf Game Studio did not license characters that are explicity tied to other D&D campaign settings. When Vecna escaped from Cavitius, both realms were destroyed (explaining, in-fiction, their absence from 3rd edition). Kas was caught up in the destruction and very nearly obliterated; he survives only as a vestige, a soul outside time and space whose powers can be used by binders." I assumed this was in a similar class as to how Karsus from Forgotten Realms can't be brought back (you can't even go back in time to his time period...not even with spells that just view the past). EDIT: And even if you did bring him back, isn't his power minute compared to Vecna's? Despite the fact he took out Vecna's hand and eye, he doesn't have any Divine Rank and (facing against the intelligent Vecna), has all the weaknesses of a vampire which Vecna could exploit easily. Being a traitor and insane, Kas would not likely find help from other gods or entities who are rivals of Vecna as well (Among Vecna's staunchest foes are Iuz, Saint Cuthbert, the Lady of Pain, Pholtus, and the Circle of Eight). |
| TurnCloak_Kobold08-15-07, 04:22 PM | to tel the truth, we didnt even realy use him, he was "brought back" and hasent been seen since. he held no part of the combat, and to tell the truth he was more than useless. the ony thing that made him worthwhile, is that he might have had information on veccna from when he was helping the dude, however, that was a long time ago and therefore had no relevance to what veccna was doing now, unless veccna was that stupid. in either case if he is a vestage, we could have gotten all the information we got out of him, aka none, from binding someone to him. so all it requires is a bit of a backstory change. thats all. ^^ |