Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xammer99 07-02-07, 07:54 PM	Hey folks, Can anyone recommend a good online resource, preferably w/ any sorta 3.x stats for the various types of fey? Thanks!
Taeldrin Laesrash 07-02-07, 08:06 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fey This is more fluff than crunch, but it's really cool.
dfarnsworth 07-02-07, 08:15 PM	A little Off Topic, but I just noticed a book that is published by Goodman Games any reviews for the Complete Guide to Fey. Anyone have anything to say about it?
RavinRay 07-03-07, 10:16 AM	If the Queen of the Unseelie Court hasn't been officially statted, I wonder how she'll work if modeled after Maleficent from Disney's Sleeping Beauty, who is an evil fey and considered Disney's top villain.
xammer99 07-03-07, 10:35 AM	Thanks for the help folks! But I'm not so much lookin for stats on the queens (this isn't an epic game), but more on a bunch of different types of fey. A lot more than what the MM provides. Thanks!
ripvanwormer 07-03-07, 11:14 AM	If the Queen of the Unseelie Court hasn't been officially statted, I wonder how she'll work if modeled after Maleficent from Disney's Sleeping Beauty, who is an evil fey and considered Disney's top villain. That'd work, though I'd also fold in elements of the Wicked Queen from Snow White (inspired by Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers). She's not fey, but she's got this great fairy tale ambiance that'd be great to steal, and I like the idea that she's got a daughter roaming around somewhere that she told her huntsman to kill, only to receive a false heart in return.
Seldriss 07-03-07, 11:20 AM	Many feys have been forgotten or banished in the third edition : Brownie, Cluricaun, Far Darrig, Geanncannac, Leprechaun, Daoine Sidhe, and many more. Fortunately, you can find most of them in some third party supplements, like the Tome of Horrors. But if what you are looking for is info about the fey creatures, then your post should be in the Monster or Races thread, not in Deities & Planes...
Steely_Dan 07-03-07, 11:23 AM	Many feys have been forgotten or banished in the third edition : Brownie, Cluricaun, Far Darrig, Geanncannac, Leprechaun, Daoine Sidhe, And my personal favourite – the Killmoulis!
Seldriss 07-03-07, 11:33 AM	And my personal favourite – the Killmoulis! True. Funny little fellows :D
Steely_Dan 07-03-07, 11:39 AM	True. Funny little fellows :D The 1st edition art for them was killer.
Kihon 07-06-07, 05:22 PM	You might want to read through the "Harry Dresden" books - there are like 10 of them now. About half deal with the Summer & Winter Courts (Seelie & Unseelie) in a good way. They seem to be much more powerful in those books. Also you can always read through the White Wolf stuff they put out on the Fey, but personally I did not like their take that much. A couple of different sources for you to check.
xammer99 07-08-07, 09:47 PM	You might want to read through the "Harry Dresden" books - there are like 10 of them now. About half deal with the Summer & Winter Courts (Seelie & Unseelie) in a good way. They seem to be much more powerful in those books. Also you can always read through the White Wolf stuff they put out on the Fey, but personally I did not like their take that much. A couple of different sources for you to check. The Dresden books is why I'm askin. I absolutely love Butcher's take on the Fey and I've been incorporating them into my campaign, but a buncha precreated ones would be awesome to save me some time. Thanks for the suggestion and to anyone hasn't read'em then I HIGHLY recommend it!
DebiHuman 07-10-07, 10:24 PM	Bastion Press put out an excellent product "Faeries" . You might find what you need here: http://dragonwing.net/Faeries.htm and in any case, take a look at e-faeries (a free pdf file). Debby
HuManBing 07-11-07, 11:38 PM	In the Ravenloft campaign setting there is one domain that features fey-like immortal creatures. There are also two courts, ruled by sibling fey, and they have the names you mentioned. They're outlined in great detail in Ravenloft Gazetteer vol. V. This volume was released late in the product line and very few copies made it out before it had to be pulped when the Ravenloft copyright reverted. You may have better chances downloading the .pdf copy, perhaps from paizo.com.
Fabius Maximus 07-12-07, 07:49 AM	Bastion Press put out an excellent product "Faeries".Just make sure that you overlook the glaring editing errors and the bad crunch part. The fluff text is really nice.
zook1shoe666 07-18-07, 11:57 AM	they have some of the same stuff in the Monster Mythology 2.0 book
ripvanwormer 07-19-07, 12:01 PM	The Lands of Nevermore Gazetteer (http://www.yourgamesnow.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1450) looks like a fascinating version of the Plane of Faerie (yes, I just voted in the Ennies).
AlanBruce 07-20-07, 07:45 AM	I read somewhere, I believe it was in Wikipedia, that the Unseelie Court became the way it was thanks to the dread god, Tharizdun. Perhaps that is only fan speculation, but I found the concept of primal nature being perverted by an ancient abberrant evil too good to ignore. Can anyone confirm this?
Andyr 07-20-07, 01:06 PM	I think it is in Monster Mythology, though I don't have it to hand. My understanding of the myth is as follows: Originally the fey lived in a peaceful realm, under the rulership of Titania (their Queen). Some dwarf miners found a black diamond which they decided to make a gift to the Queen; Titania, however was away so they instead gave it to her sister. Unknown to the dwarves, the black diamond had been ensorcelled by Tharizdun and it corrupted Titania's sister, who became known as the Queen of Air and Darkness. (Her true name is forgotten.) This led to a war in Faerie and a split of the two realms into the Seelie (still ruled by Titania, and wandering the Outer Planes) and Unseelie (in Pandemonium) courts, which is what we have today.
AlanBruce 07-20-07, 01:40 PM	I think it is in Monster Mythology, though I don't have it to hand. My understanding of the myth is as follows: Originally the fey lived in a peaceful realm, under the rulership of Titania (their Queen). Some dwarf miners found a black diamond which they decided to make a gift to the Queen; Titania, however was away so they instead gave it to her sister. Unknown to the dwarves, the black diamond had been ensorcelled by Tharizdun and it corrupted Titania's sister, who became known as the Queen of Air and Darkness. (Her true name is forgotten.) This led to a war in Faerie and a split of the two realms into the Seelie (still ruled by Titania, and wandering the Outer Planes) and Unseelie (in Pandemonium) courts, which is what we have today. I knew that guy had a tentacle in the Fey's factioning. Yet another reason why he's one of my favorite plot devices.
Gray Richardson 07-21-07, 01:05 AM	Actually it was not Tharizdun or the Elder Elemental God that is said to have created the Black Diamond, but rather the Dark God. The Dark God has a separate entry from the Elder Elemental God in Monster Mythology.
ripvanwormer 07-21-07, 10:00 AM	Actually it was not Tharizdun or the Elder Elemental God that is said to have created the Black Diamond, but rather the Dark God. The Dark God has a separate entry from the Elder Elemental God in Monster Mythology. The Dark God is the same as Tharizdun. See Night Below by the same author, where the two names are used interchangeably. Compare the descriptions of the two: From From the Ashes by Carl Sargent: "What manner of Power Tharizdun is is unknown, although his name is associated with loss of strength and sanity, exhaustion and cold, fatigue, mind-bending illusions, depression, catatonia, and paralysis." Monster Mythology by Carl Sargent: "This dread god drains sanity and strength from soul and body... this deity's shrines are awful places, but more chilling. Exhaustion, fatigue, mind-bending illusions, catatonia, depression, and paralysis await those who enter." Almost the exact same words. There's really no doubt. It's true that the Dark God is separate from the Elder Elemental God in Monster Mythology, but the idea that the Elder Elemental God is the same as Tharizdun is a much later addition to the canon (first suggested by Bruce Cordell in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane, and solidified by Monte Cook in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil). It was Sargent's intention that the Dark God would be the power behind The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, while the Elder Elemental God would be the power worshiped by the Eiliservs drow and probably behind the Temple of Elemental Evil in some way. They weren't originally meant to be the same. Monster Mythology also says: "Who or what created the Black Diamond is unknown, but some myths whisper that the Dark God of the Underdark created it, and that his return may be dependent on the Queen's despoilings." Given the above, that's a clear link to Tharizdun.
Gray Richardson 07-21-07, 05:30 PM	Interesting. I was unaware of Carl Sargent's intentions with respect to Tharizdun. But that was specifically the passage in Monster Mythology I was referring to where it mentions that the Dark God may have created the Black Diamond. So if the Elder Elemental God and the Dark God are different gods, but Tharizdun has been associated with both of them... how would one resolve the conflict? Would you say that the Elder Elemental God and the Dark God are actually the same being? Or would you say that the lore equating Tharizdun with the Elder Elemental God is incorrect? I can't remember, but in the recent Elemental Princes of Evil article in Dragon, I was under the impression that most of the princes were said to be the spawn of the Elder Elemental God, but I can't remember if they named that god specifically as Tharizdun or not.
ripvanwormer 07-21-07, 09:31 PM	Would you say that the Elder Elemental God and the Dark God are actually the same being? Or would you say that the lore equating Tharizdun with the Elder Elemental God is incorrect? I'd say the Elder Elemental Eye and the Dark God are both aspects of Tharizdun, but they're not the same as one another. Like how Demogorgon has two heads - both heads are Demogorgon, but they have different personalities. The storyline seems to be that the Elder Elemental Eye is actually a disguise of Tharizdun's, though, rather than an aspect at the same level as his others. The Dark God uses this guise to fool the Elemental Princes of Evil into serving him, but it's not his true form. I can't remember, but in the recent Elemental Princes of Evil article in Dragon, I was under the impression that most of the princes were said to be the spawn of the Elder Elemental God, but I can't remember if they named that god specifically as Tharizdun or not. They were said to be the spawn of the Elder Elemental God in the PSMCIII as well, and in the MMIV. I'm not sure if the Dragon article named him as Tharizdun, but the MMIV did. The relevant excerpt is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a): "The Elemental Princes believe that the Elder Elemental Eye is their forebear, a mighty being who can elevate them to godhood and herald their domination of the Material Plane. However, this deity is trapped in a strange void between the planes from which the princes seek to free it. Unknown to them, the Elder Elemental Eye is actually a front for the malevolent god Tharizdun." It's a disguise because Tharizdun himself has nothing to do with the elements, and in fact seeks their destruction. As such, he's utterly at odds with the Princes of Elemental Evil, who despite their vile natures seek to advance their respective substances. He's posing as an elemental being, a deity who contains elements of all four (or five, counting Cryonax - possibly even six counting Bwimb) elements and created them all. This isn't his true nature at all. This Elder Elemental god does not actually exist. Personally, I'd rather the Eiliservs drow worshiped one of the Elder Evils from Lords of Madness rather than the Elder Elemental God/Eye; it seems more appropriate for them to co-opt a maddening aboleth patron than an unrelated elemental thingy.
Gray Richardson 07-22-07, 04:28 AM	In the Forgotten Realms, Ghaunadaur is linked to the Elder Elemental God, but I am not sure if he is really an aspect of Tharizdun, or the EEG, or if he just absorbed the Faerunian aspect of the EEG into himself and now holds those portfolios and claims the name as an alias. As for the Dark God, I halfway wonder if it doesn't have some connection to Moander, as Moander has (or had) the portfolios of rot and decay in the Realms.
Andyr 07-22-07, 07:55 AM	I think, but am not certain, that in ancient times Ghaunadaur just absorbed/took advantage of the absence of the EEG (and Juiblex too?) in the realms and uses their names as an alias.
Fabius Maximus 07-22-07, 08:28 AM	In the Forgotten Realms, Ghaunadaur is linked to the Elder Elemental God, but I am not sure if he is really an aspect of Tharizdun, or the EEG, or if he just absorbed the Faerunian aspect of the EEG into himself and now holds those portfolios and claims the name as an alias. As for the Dark God, I halfway wonder if it doesn't have some connection to Moander, as Moander has (or had) the portfolios of rot and decay in the Realms. The most Tharizdun-like 'deity' in the Realms is the Sphere of Annihilation these wackos in Lutcheq (sp?) revere. Sadly, Shar is the one giving them their cleric powers, so no Tharizdun in the Realms.
Andyr 07-23-07, 03:40 PM	Isn't that Tiamat rather than Shar? Or is this some group different from House Karanok?
ripvanwormer 07-23-07, 05:34 PM	In the Forgotten Realms, Ghaunadaur is linked to the Elder Elemental God, but I am not sure if he is really an aspect of Tharizdun, or the EEG, or if he just absorbed the Faerunian aspect of the EEG into himself and now holds those portfolios and claims the name as an alias. As for the Dark God, I halfway wonder if it doesn't have some connection to Moander, as Moander has (or had) the portfolios of rot and decay in the Realms. I think the Elder Elemental Eye might have once been a real deity, a god of elemental fury who spawned the Princes of Elemental Evil, and Tharizdun might simply have killed him and taken his name and aspect as a guise. The relationship, then, would be like that between Lolth and the dead Moander. Lolth is not Moander in any sense, but she has usurped his name. Ghaunadaur, then, could be an aspect of the true Elder Elemental God, dead everywhere but his single remaining aspect in the Realms, who survived by absorbing the Realms aspect of Juiblex and because Ao had not allowed Tharizdun into that sphere (though his less active aspect, the nameless Dark God, may once have been known there). Tharizdun, as the god of entropy, seems incapable of bringing new life into being, so he probably is not the father of the evil archomentals. On the other hand, it's possible that they're overgrown grues of some kind. Grues, as you know, are created from evil magic cast in the Inner Planes, and that seems like something that Tharizdun could well be responsible for. They might even be the living keys to Tharizdun's prison. Moander's portfolio of rot and corruption doesn't strike me as being very similar to "loss of strength and sanity, exhaustion and cold, fatigue, mind-bending illusions, depression, catatonia, and paralysis." None of this latter list of things is really rot or corruption exactly. Shar's portfolio seems like a much closer fit.
Gray Richardson 07-24-07, 02:00 AM	I think the Elder Elemental Eye might have once been a real deity, a god of elemental fury who spawned the Princes of Elemental Evil, and Tharizdun might simply have killed him and taken his name and aspect as a guise.That would explain a lot. I like that idea.Ghaunadaur, then, could be an aspect of the true Elder Elemental God, dead everywhere but his single remaining aspect in the Realms, who survived by absorbing the Realms aspect of Juiblex and because Ao had not allowed Tharizdun into that sphere (though his less active aspect, the nameless Dark God, may once have been known there).That sounds like a very elegant solution. Although, Ghaunadaur himself seems like an an ascended ooze or deified paraelemental grue from the plane of ooze. I halfway wonder if he is not the senior Bwimb's brother or FR aspect. I could definitely see him being related to or an aspect of the Elder Elemental God, who was later absorbed into Tharizdun, leaving Ghaunadaur the last "vestige" of the EEG in the Great Tree cosmology. Speaking of vestiges, I bet the EEG, the Dark God, and Tharizdun himself would all make good vestiges...Moander's portfolio of rot and corruption doesn't strike me as being very similar to "loss of strength and sanity, exhaustion and cold, fatigue, mind-bending illusions, depression, catatonia, and paralysis." None of this latter list of things is really rot or corruption exactly.Point taken, though I see "rot" as definitely a facet of entropy. In the time of Netheril, Moander had the portfolios of Rotting death, decay, corruption, and parasites. I agree that it is not exactly a perfect match for the Dark God. But it's close enough that I could see Moander appropriating the name as an alias, or there being some confusion between the myths. After all, Moander was also known by the nicknames: The Darkbringer, the Jawed God, the Rotting God, and the Great Dread God. As a god of corruption, I still like the idea that Moander might have had something to do with the Black Diamond and the corruption of the Queen of Air & Darkness. The myth is so similar to the myth of the corruption of Tyche. Come to think of it, I could also see the Dark God forging the Black Diamond by binding an Obyrith inside, perhaps a certain self-styled demon prince of Corruption or Rot from the 223rd layer of the Abyss? Once freed from the Black Diamond by (or as a side effect of) corrupting Titania's sister, I could see Moander turning on the Dark God and slaying and/or absorbing the Dark God's Faerūnian aspect in order to power his own divine ascension. Perhaps Moander's origin as a god is intimately tied somehow to the origin of the Queen of Air and Darkness and perhaps also to the reason why the Dark God no longer has a presence in Faerūn.
Steely_Dan 07-24-07, 04:42 AM	the Queen of Air and Darkness. (Her true name is forgotten.) Mab.
Fabius Maximus 07-24-07, 08:12 AM	Isn't that Tiamat rather than Shar? Or is this some group different from House Karanok? You're right. Shar would fit better, though... @SteelyDan: Are you sure about Mab? Fairies states that Mab has been the Queen of the Twilight Lands in the past, while the Queen of Air and Darkness hasn't been able to achieve this status. Could be a loose interpretation, though.
Steely_Dan 07-24-07, 08:19 AM	@SteelyDan: Are you sure about Mab? Fairies states that Mab has been the Queen of the Twilight Lands in the past, while the Queen of Air and Darkness hasn't been able to achieve this status. There was a link that Rip (IIRC) provided a few years ago to a site about the Seelie/Unseelie Courts, and I remember the name Mab as the Queen's original name - don't have the link, though (sorry). P.S. What is/are the Twilight Lands?
Thanael 07-24-07, 08:40 AM	The Faerie Pantheon on Planewalker (http://www.planewalker.com/portals/entry.php?intEntryID=9988) lists Mab as a title of Titania.
Fabius Maximus 07-24-07, 11:51 AM	There was a link that Rip (IIRC) provided a few years ago to a site about the Seelie/Unseelie Courts, and I remember the name Mab as the Queen's original name - don't have the link, though (sorry). P.S. What is/are the Twilight Lands? The Twilight Lands is one name for the lands of Faerie.
Steely_Dan 07-24-07, 11:53 AM	The Twilight Lands is one name for the lands of Faerie. I figured – thanks. I was just curious if it was a specific campaign setting etc.
Andyr 07-24-07, 01:39 PM	Ooh, some good ideas in this thread. :) I think the Elder Elemental Eye might have once been a real deity, a god of elemental fury who spawned the Princes of Elemental Evil, and Tharizdun might simply have killed him and taken his name and aspect as a guise. ... Ghaunadaur, then, could be an aspect of the true Elder Elemental God, dead everywhere but his single remaining aspect in the Realms, who survived by absorbing the Realms aspect of Juiblex FR canon mentions that in the past Ghaunadaur was a lot more powerful, then he struck most of his followers (slugs, oozes etc) mad which lost him a lot of worship and hence power. I don't think the true reason for that action has been explained. But perhaps if Ghaunadaur was the Elder Elemental God the action was some last-ditch attempt to stave off an attack from Tharizdun, or else an action of Tharizdun's as he was attempting to subsume the EEG (and make it easier for himself by harming the EEG's power base)?
ripvanwormer 07-24-07, 02:03 PM	The Lands of Nevermore Gazetteer (http://www.yourgamesnow.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1450) calls the evil fey queen "Mab," and I think that's a very appropriate name for her (since it's a classic faerie queen name that's not being otherwise used). The Planewalker article (by Weenie/Nemui) reinterprets the fey pantheon so that the Queen of Air and Darkness and Titania are one and the same.