True Names and the Planes [Archive] - Wizards Community

True Names and the Planes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HamHam
10-08-07, 09:36 PM Setting aside strict mechanics for a sec, it seems to me that Truenames are probably the greatest potential weapon imaginable.

One the things you can theoretically do is simply control entities by knowing their truenames. This, first of all, makes for a decent plot point, but if taken to the extreme could result in down right epic possibilities.

For example, getting your hands on the true names of various gods. Or Asmodeus and Demogorgon.

But ultimately, thinking about this leads me to one irresistable question:

Does the Lady of Pain have a truename?
TurnCloak_Kobold
10-08-07, 10:52 PM ok, me and the group have had our little pow wow over this an have come up with what i think is a reasonable answer.

firstly, gods are removed from the timestream, which wont make sense till i mention that unaming a god will have very little affect on what the gods done, true the god wil e as if he/she/it never existed, but the things they did before deityhood will still have happened, or the other way around depending on how you run it.

second, you almost have to cheat using the item fammilure feat to get the neccessary true name check to know a deities truename.

but the benefit is that i dont think theres actually a range, you can actually truename against a target that you have a truename for no matter where they are, so long as theres no range discriptor.

so yeah, while truenaming is a powerfulle form of magic, once you get into deital stuff, its almost pointless, though a truenaming deity with the know lore salene ability, and the truenaming prestige class that gives you truenaming as a lore check, well you know the truename of everyone, no matter who they are, because you can never fail a lore or knowledge check with that salene ability.

always a fun way to mess with deital power seeking players, put a truenaming deity in there path that learns there truenames an then tries unaming them till there gone.

that will learn em.
Thegans
10-08-07, 10:59 PM Setting aside strict mechanics for a sec, it seems to me that Truenames are probably the greatest potential weapon imaginable.

One the things you can theoretically do is simply control entities by knowing their truenames. This, first of all, makes for a decent plot point, but if taken to the extreme could result in down right epic possibilities.

For example, getting your hands on the true names of various gods. Or Asmodeus and Demogorgon.

But ultimately, thinking about this leads me to one irresistable question:

Does the Lady of Pain have a truename?

Considering the Lady of Pain is apparently suppouse to be invinicble her truename would probably means 'I[insert name or person reading this] will be flayed right now regardless of how I try to use or change this name.'
Taeldrin Laesrash
10-09-07, 12:56 AM They might; but they're either locked away in the most remote part of the planes, or so magnificant that you'll explode upon reading it. Especially the LoP's. Also, which system of truenames are we using as a reference point? The ToM system is pretty pitiful, and well...ungodly.
Rohano
10-09-07, 02:09 AM Y'know how in Faerun, a god hears everything you say about them, especially if you use their name?

Well... just imagine uttering a god's true name.

It could become a movie.
Time of Troubles II: Ao *****slaps You Into Nonexistance

Assuming, of course, that you don't explode during the attempt... either because of the raw power you just released or because the gods of fate decided your thread deserved to be cut before you started messing up the universe.
Eriolas
10-09-07, 11:18 AM Well, IF they have one the DC to speak a gods true name should be in the regions where it requires you to be a god just to have enough skillpoints
Surgo
10-09-07, 11:29 PM That brings up plenty of problems of its own though, namely "(god or planar entity) X gets ahold of the true name of (god or planar entity) Y".

Truenames in general just don't seem like a very well-thought-out or consistent system.
HamHam
10-10-07, 12:00 AM Spoilsports.

I really don't care that much about mechanics and DCs and what not, but rather about true names in principle, drawing back on the literature and myths about them.

And to answer my own question, I think the Lady of Pain's true name should be 42.

Those mice? Yeah, they were actually Aspects of Vecna. Crazy and Senile ones.
Thegans
10-10-07, 04:04 AM Spoilsports.

I really don't care that much about mechanics and DCs and what not, but rather about true names in principle, drawing back on the literature and myths about them.

And to answer my own question, I think the Lady of Pain's true name should be 42.

Those mice? Yeah, they were actually Aspects of Vecna. Crazy and Senile ones.

Shouldn't aspects of the god of secrets have known the awnser to the question since it would be the biggest secret.

Anyway I want so see if I have the timeline right
Vecna is born
Vecna becomes a lich
Vecna becomes a god
Insert more stuff here
Vecna creats two mice aspects
Aspects create a computer to find the awnser
Computer says 42
Mice are annoyed
The computer creates earth
Earth creates Gary Gygax
Gygax creates D&D
TSR goes bankrupt
WOTC gains control of D&D
Vecna accidently makes the universe change in a way he didn't intend.
Zousha_Omenohu
10-14-07, 02:37 PM Well, I know in Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark, you encounter a being in Cania called the Knower of Names, who reputedly knows the True Name of every being in the multiverse. If you manipulate her correctly, you can get her to tell you the True Name of her ex-lover Mephistopheles and bypass the entire final boss fight. You can also learn other True Names, enabling you to manipulate these people for better or for worse.
Deacon Liadon
10-14-07, 04:27 PM An interesting question certainly,

But what we would have to know before we could know whatHer Serenity's truename is would be who/what/how she is. After all, a truename is, at its most basic form, a description of something.

Perhaps we should try squirell truenames first, just to be on the safe side.
Lobsopdoy
10-18-07, 04:04 PM Remember the Last Word from Dead Gods? Multiply that by a couple hundred.
pupspite1
03-25-08, 03:48 AM a God would have a personal truename, sure. But realize that there is no way in hell any truenamer would be able to research it. And even in some way, a truenamer was to get it, a failure to speak it would surely mean their death.
What makes you think a God woudln't have Obsure Personal Truename or Truename Basklash?

secondly, even if you were in the presense of a 'god' to be able to try to effect it w/ an utterance normally, and you had the insane skill needed to succesfully speak it, what good would that get ya? the God would counter speak you and then commence to remove you from existance.

Remeber that teh system Truespeak expoits is what the universe is built from. Do you seriosuly think a God is useing anything but that?
Kyuketsukiouji
03-25-08, 06:30 PM Does the Lady of Pain have a truename?

Yes, she does.

Sadly, uttering the first syllable of it causes your soul to tear into ribbons.

You really don't want to know what the other 12 do.
M-bark
03-26-08, 01:40 PM Yes, she does.

Sadly, uttering the first syllable of it causes your soul to tear into ribbons.

You really don't want to know what the other 12 do.

Well, at least it's just my soul. And at least it gets turned into something nice.
Admiral_Lourve
03-26-08, 06:06 PM I forget where this fluff comes from, but anyone attempting to find Asmodeus's true-name dies. Just like that.
The Lady of Pain? Why do people even bother trying to harm her, thats not what shes for. If anything take her out of your version of Planescape.

I'm still ****** at that Vecna thing. :mad:
Taeldrin Laesrash
03-26-08, 09:47 PM I forget where this fluff comes from, but anyone attempting to find Asmodeus's true-name dies. Just like that.
The Lady of Pain? Why do people even bother trying to harm her, thats not what shes for. If anything take her out of your version of Planescape.

I'm still ****** at that Vecna thing. :mad:

Actually, trying to harm her helps do what she's there for: A plot device. Can you imagine how you would get her truename, or what could be revealed if you did?
Shemeska the Marauder
03-27-08, 11:11 PM I forget where this fluff comes from, but anyone attempting to find Asmodeus's true-name dies.

It doesn't come from anywhere. There was text in the 3e MotP that rumored that people that tried to find out Asmodeus's true nature tended to vanish. But the "true form" that was being alluded to was just a legend without any actual truth behind it in the first place, so I wouldn't give Asmo any special spooky 'you die you die!' powers. :)
sciborg3
03-28-08, 06:16 PM The Lady's true name is the secret names of three ratatosks...Alvin, Simon, Theodore...
Taeldrin Laesrash
03-29-08, 11:57 PM That'd explain why she never speaks. The secret would be blown right away.
Vicen_Korel
03-30-08, 12:23 AM My understanding, at least from the ToM, is that Deities have more than one true name and more than one form, same way they can have more than one avatar. So in order to unmake one you would have to unmake them all at the same time or the other form of name would simply speak the name back into existance. Also any worshiper that calls on a Deities lends part of it's substance back to the deity in exchange for the power it gets from the deity. This substance helps the deity grow and gain more power, hence why they want worshipers in the first place. This idea while, I think partially mine, comes from my understanding of the Gods, Demigods, and Demons book.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HamHam 10-08-07, 09:36 PM	Setting aside strict mechanics for a sec, it seems to me that Truenames are probably the greatest potential weapon imaginable. One the things you can theoretically do is simply control entities by knowing their truenames. This, first of all, makes for a decent plot point, but if taken to the extreme could result in down right epic possibilities. For example, getting your hands on the true names of various gods. Or Asmodeus and Demogorgon. But ultimately, thinking about this leads me to one irresistable question: Does the Lady of Pain have a truename?
TurnCloak_Kobold 10-08-07, 10:52 PM	ok, me and the group have had our little pow wow over this an have come up with what i think is a reasonable answer. firstly, gods are removed from the timestream, which wont make sense till i mention that unaming a god will have very little affect on what the gods done, true the god wil e as if he/she/it never existed, but the things they did before deityhood will still have happened, or the other way around depending on how you run it. second, you almost have to cheat using the item fammilure feat to get the neccessary true name check to know a deities truename. but the benefit is that i dont think theres actually a range, you can actually truename against a target that you have a truename for no matter where they are, so long as theres no range discriptor. so yeah, while truenaming is a powerfulle form of magic, once you get into deital stuff, its almost pointless, though a truenaming deity with the know lore salene ability, and the truenaming prestige class that gives you truenaming as a lore check, well you know the truename of everyone, no matter who they are, because you can never fail a lore or knowledge check with that salene ability. always a fun way to mess with deital power seeking players, put a truenaming deity in there path that learns there truenames an then tries unaming them till there gone. that will learn em.
Thegans 10-08-07, 10:59 PM	Setting aside strict mechanics for a sec, it seems to me that Truenames are probably the greatest potential weapon imaginable. One the things you can theoretically do is simply control entities by knowing their truenames. This, first of all, makes for a decent plot point, but if taken to the extreme could result in down right epic possibilities. For example, getting your hands on the true names of various gods. Or Asmodeus and Demogorgon. But ultimately, thinking about this leads me to one irresistable question: Does the Lady of Pain have a truename? Considering the Lady of Pain is apparently suppouse to be invinicble her truename would probably means 'I[insert name or person reading this] will be flayed right now regardless of how I try to use or change this name.'
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-09-07, 12:56 AM	They might; but they're either locked away in the most remote part of the planes, or so magnificant that you'll explode upon reading it. Especially the LoP's. Also, which system of truenames are we using as a reference point? The ToM system is pretty pitiful, and well...ungodly.
Rohano 10-09-07, 02:09 AM	Y'know how in Faerun, a god hears everything you say about them, especially if you use their name? Well... just imagine uttering a god's true name. It could become a movie. Time of Troubles II: Ao *****slaps You Into Nonexistance Assuming, of course, that you don't explode during the attempt... either because of the raw power you just released or because the gods of fate decided your thread deserved to be cut before you started messing up the universe.
Eriolas 10-09-07, 11:18 AM	Well, IF they have one the DC to speak a gods true name should be in the regions where it requires you to be a god just to have enough skillpoints
Surgo 10-09-07, 11:29 PM	That brings up plenty of problems of its own though, namely "(god or planar entity) X gets ahold of the true name of (god or planar entity) Y". Truenames in general just don't seem like a very well-thought-out or consistent system.
HamHam 10-10-07, 12:00 AM	Spoilsports. I really don't care that much about mechanics and DCs and what not, but rather about true names in principle, drawing back on the literature and myths about them. And to answer my own question, I think the Lady of Pain's true name should be 42. Those mice? Yeah, they were actually Aspects of Vecna. Crazy and Senile ones.
Thegans 10-10-07, 04:04 AM	Spoilsports. I really don't care that much about mechanics and DCs and what not, but rather about true names in principle, drawing back on the literature and myths about them. And to answer my own question, I think the Lady of Pain's true name should be 42. Those mice? Yeah, they were actually Aspects of Vecna. Crazy and Senile ones. Shouldn't aspects of the god of secrets have known the awnser to the question since it would be the biggest secret. Anyway I want so see if I have the timeline right Vecna is born Vecna becomes a lich Vecna becomes a god Insert more stuff here Vecna creats two mice aspects Aspects create a computer to find the awnser Computer says 42 Mice are annoyed The computer creates earth Earth creates Gary Gygax Gygax creates D&D TSR goes bankrupt WOTC gains control of D&D Vecna accidently makes the universe change in a way he didn't intend.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 02:37 PM	Well, I know in Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark, you encounter a being in Cania called the Knower of Names, who reputedly knows the True Name of every being in the multiverse. If you manipulate her correctly, you can get her to tell you the True Name of her ex-lover Mephistopheles and bypass the entire final boss fight. You can also learn other True Names, enabling you to manipulate these people for better or for worse.
Deacon Liadon 10-14-07, 04:27 PM	An interesting question certainly, But what we would have to know before we could know whatHer Serenity's truename is would be who/what/how she is. After all, a truename is, at its most basic form, a description of something. Perhaps we should try squirell truenames first, just to be on the safe side.
Lobsopdoy 10-18-07, 04:04 PM	Remember the Last Word from Dead Gods? Multiply that by a couple hundred.
pupspite1 03-25-08, 03:48 AM	a God would have a personal truename, sure. But realize that there is no way in hell any truenamer would be able to research it. And even in some way, a truenamer was to get it, a failure to speak it would surely mean their death. What makes you think a God woudln't have Obsure Personal Truename or Truename Basklash? secondly, even if you were in the presense of a 'god' to be able to try to effect it w/ an utterance normally, and you had the insane skill needed to succesfully speak it, what good would that get ya? the God would counter speak you and then commence to remove you from existance. Remeber that teh system Truespeak expoits is what the universe is built from. Do you seriosuly think a God is useing anything but that?
Kyuketsukiouji 03-25-08, 06:30 PM	Does the Lady of Pain have a truename? Yes, she does. Sadly, uttering the first syllable of it causes your soul to tear into ribbons. You really don't want to know what the other 12 do.
M-bark 03-26-08, 01:40 PM	Yes, she does. Sadly, uttering the first syllable of it causes your soul to tear into ribbons. You really don't want to know what the other 12 do. Well, at least it's just my soul. And at least it gets turned into something nice.
Admiral_Lourve 03-26-08, 06:06 PM	I forget where this fluff comes from, but anyone attempting to find Asmodeus's true-name dies. Just like that. The Lady of Pain? Why do people even bother trying to harm her, thats not what shes for. If anything take her out of your version of Planescape. I'm still ****** at that Vecna thing. :mad:
Taeldrin Laesrash 03-26-08, 09:47 PM	I forget where this fluff comes from, but anyone attempting to find Asmodeus's true-name dies. Just like that. The Lady of Pain? Why do people even bother trying to harm her, thats not what shes for. If anything take her out of your version of Planescape. I'm still ****** at that Vecna thing. :mad: Actually, trying to harm her helps do what she's there for: A plot device. Can you imagine how you would get her truename, or what could be revealed if you did?
Shemeska the Marauder 03-27-08, 11:11 PM	I forget where this fluff comes from, but anyone attempting to find Asmodeus's true-name dies. It doesn't come from anywhere. There was text in the 3e MotP that rumored that people that tried to find out Asmodeus's true nature tended to vanish. But the "true form" that was being alluded to was just a legend without any actual truth behind it in the first place, so I wouldn't give Asmo any special spooky 'you die you die!' powers. :)
sciborg3 03-28-08, 06:16 PM	The Lady's true name is the secret names of three ratatosks...Alvin, Simon, Theodore...
Taeldrin Laesrash 03-29-08, 11:57 PM	That'd explain why she never speaks. The secret would be blown right away.
Vicen_Korel 03-30-08, 12:23 AM	My understanding, at least from the ToM, is that Deities have more than one true name and more than one form, same way they can have more than one avatar. So in order to unmake one you would have to unmake them all at the same time or the other form of name would simply speak the name back into existance. Also any worshiper that calls on a Deities lends part of it's substance back to the deity in exchange for the power it gets from the deity. This substance helps the deity grow and gain more power, hence why they want worshipers in the first place. This idea while, I think partially mine, comes from my understanding of the Gods, Demigods, and Demons book.