Turning and others... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Turning and others... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mearrin69
09-09-07, 09:58 PM Hi all,
Hope this is in the right place. So a cleric with the fire domain can turn water creatures and rebuke/command fire creatures. I'm DMing a game in which a fire domain cleric successfully turned an elemental (magma hurler from SGoS - medium elemental, fire and earth) with enough effect to command it.

So now, according to my reading of the rules under turning (PHB, combat section) it seems that they have, permanently, an elemental tank backing them up. I don't see anything about duration, rechecks, etc.

What am I not taking into account? Is there some other rule that comes into play? The thing isn't mindless (int of 7) so it seems like it should, at some point, have a chance to break out of its servitude. Any advice?
M

PS: Since they've been using it (at least during the session where it became controlled) to crush their foes I have told them that they're sharing XP for the time being. This seem appropriate?
Kesuk2k5
09-11-07, 12:31 PM "Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones."

I'd say that if he doesn't spend that action controlling the elemental for that round, it's no longer under his control, and that he has to succeed a new check to re-establish control. Either that or that it's controlled for 10 rounds (the standard duration that undead would flee from a turning check). Either of those should work.

As for XP, I'd personally say not to split it with the elemental, because he gained control of the creature through one of his own abilities.
Borris
09-11-07, 06:50 PM The control effect from the rebuke/command ability is permanent. If a standard action was required each round to maintain the control, an evil cleric could never command additionnal undead (although you can command up to your level), heal it, bolster it against turning attempts, etc.

Since you need to be within 60 feet and have a clear line of effect to command a creature in the first place, I've ruled that the same is required to give new orders. In the case of an intelligent creature (and Int 7 is relatively high), a creature that's not friendly towards you will probably try to find loop-holes in your orders to avoid having to do anything it doesn't want, and if the orders allow it, will probably attempt to run away so that you can't give it new orders.

I wouldn't have the PCs share the XP with the elemental if I were you. It's only a CR 3 and the cleric has to be at least 8th-level to have controlled it in the first place. At this point, it's no stronger than a druid's animal companion would be, and it will just get relatively weaker as the party gains levels (and it doesn't). The cleric should be somewhat rewarded for using a class ability that sees very litte use in a standard campaign.

Otherwise, with restrictive enough orders, it's at the cleric's beck and call until the cleric relinquishes command of the elemental, someone else dispels the command, or it gets destroyed. Note that a cleric of 8th-level or higher with the Air or Water domain can destroy it in one standard action, and a cleric with the Fire or Earth domain can "steal" the control over the magma hurler if its turning check is equal or greater than the one you used to take control of the elemental in the first place. If you want other ways to get rid of it, note that an average orb of cold (a 4th-level arcana spell from the Spell Compendium) cast by a sorcerer or wizard of at least 9th-level will kill the magma hurler in one hit. (And it will hit given the hurler's pathetic touch AC). A cone of cold should do the same, assuming the hurler misses its Reflex save (and it probably will).

(By the way, what's SGoS? I'm using the Magma Hurler stats from the Miniatures Handbook, but it's possible that those are now outdated.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mearrin69 09-09-07, 09:58 PM	Hi all, Hope this is in the right place. So a cleric with the fire domain can turn water creatures and rebuke/command fire creatures. I'm DMing a game in which a fire domain cleric successfully turned an elemental (magma hurler from SGoS - medium elemental, fire and earth) with enough effect to command it. So now, according to my reading of the rules under turning (PHB, combat section) it seems that they have, permanently, an elemental tank backing them up. I don't see anything about duration, rechecks, etc. What am I not taking into account? Is there some other rule that comes into play? The thing isn't mindless (int of 7) so it seems like it should, at some point, have a chance to break out of its servitude. Any advice? M PS: Since they've been using it (at least during the session where it became controlled) to crush their foes I have told them that they're sharing XP for the time being. This seem appropriate?
Kesuk2k5 09-11-07, 12:31 PM	"Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones." I'd say that if he doesn't spend that action controlling the elemental for that round, it's no longer under his control, and that he has to succeed a new check to re-establish control. Either that or that it's controlled for 10 rounds (the standard duration that undead would flee from a turning check). Either of those should work. As for XP, I'd personally say not to split it with the elemental, because he gained control of the creature through one of his own abilities.
Borris 09-11-07, 06:50 PM	The control effect from the rebuke/command ability is permanent. If a standard action was required each round to maintain the control, an evil cleric could never command additionnal undead (although you can command up to your level), heal it, bolster it against turning attempts, etc. Since you need to be within 60 feet and have a clear line of effect to command a creature in the first place, I've ruled that the same is required to give new orders. In the case of an intelligent creature (and Int 7 is relatively high), a creature that's not friendly towards you will probably try to find loop-holes in your orders to avoid having to do anything it doesn't want, and if the orders allow it, will probably attempt to run away so that you can't give it new orders. I wouldn't have the PCs share the XP with the elemental if I were you. It's only a CR 3 and the cleric has to be at least 8th-level to have controlled it in the first place. At this point, it's no stronger than a druid's animal companion would be, and it will just get relatively weaker as the party gains levels (and it doesn't). The cleric should be somewhat rewarded for using a class ability that sees very litte use in a standard campaign. Otherwise, with restrictive enough orders, it's at the cleric's beck and call until the cleric relinquishes command of the elemental, someone else dispels the command, or it gets destroyed. Note that a cleric of 8th-level or higher with the Air or Water domain can destroy it in one standard action, and a cleric with the Fire or Earth domain can "steal" the control over the magma hurler if its turning check is equal or greater than the one you used to take control of the elemental in the first place. If you want other ways to get rid of it, note that an average orb of cold (a 4th-level arcana spell from the Spell Compendium) cast by a sorcerer or wizard of at least 9th-level will kill the magma hurler in one hit. (And it will hit given the hurler's pathetic touch AC). A cone of cold should do the same, assuming the hurler misses its Reflex save (and it probably will). (By the way, what's SGoS? I'm using the Magma Hurler stats from the Miniatures Handbook, but it's possible that those are now outdated.)