What happened to Amauntor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

What happened to Amauntor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Indivisible
07-20-07, 01:46 AM I know that he's dead and that he may be Amon but what happened to him?
Sigurd van Norhusen
07-20-07, 01:53 AM As far as I know, he starved to death due to lack of worship.
Shemeska the Marauder
07-20-07, 04:49 AM As far as I know, he starved to death due to lack of worship.

Bingo.

It's possible however that some fraction of his essence might have either been absorbed by Lathander, or that Lathander as a whole is Amaunator returned from the dead in a different guise.
Mirtek
07-20-07, 12:23 PM He was part of faerun's tripple-aspected sun-circle. Only one of them may exist at the same time (except for the time of change when two coexist for a while).

Once there were Amauntor (noon) and Myrkul (dusk), then Aumauntor died leaving only Myrkul (dusk) as the current aspect until the rise of Lathander (dawn). For a time we had dusk and dawn until Myrkul died leaving only Lathander.

Now we're waiting for the arrivial of the next noon-aspect to emerge and the eventual end of Lathander to begin the new reign of noon.
LordInsane
07-21-07, 01:27 PM I thought two were the standard and one the exception?
ArcTan
07-22-07, 06:23 PM The Three-Faced Sun heresy is just that -- a heresy. Never proven to be true, and actively opposed by most current worshippers of Lathander. (The simple heresy that Lathander is Amaunator and about to turn back into him is far more common.)

Anyway, Myrkul wasn't the original dusk aspect, Jergal was -- Myrkul didn't become the dusk aspect until he stole Jergal's portfolio of the dead. The whole concept linking death deities to a solar aspect (dusk) seems dodgy to me, but whatever.
ArcTan
07-22-07, 06:24 PM I thought two were the standard and one the exception?

It is. If their theory is correct, having only one solar aspect is a very brief transition period between ages -- Lathander's sole place as sun-god is due to change very, very soon (either by Lathander becoming Amaunator and a new Dawnlord appearing, or Amaunator coming back as a new god).
ArcTan
07-22-07, 06:28 PM Also, while Amaunator is certainly a famous dead god and sounds like "Amon", Amon is far more clearly a direct reference to the real-life Egyptian deity Amon (who, in real life, was the chief god of the pantheon for a long time, regarded as the chief aspect of Re, the sun, and then suddenly disappeared from all worship within a very short historical timeframe, to be replaced by Horus).

Amaunator may be based on the real-life Amon, of course (although the Tome of Magic vestige Amon is much more clearly based on the real Amon, since the real Amon's idol was a ram and the vestige Amon has ram's horns).
Andyr
07-22-07, 07:11 PM Anyway, Myrkul wasn't the original dusk aspect, Jergal was -- Myrkul didn't become the dusk aspect until he stole Jergal's portfolio of the dead. The whole concept linking death deities to a solar aspect (dusk) seems dodgy to me, but whatever.

Not necessarily stole--I like to think that Jergal gave his portfolios away; perhaps he saw the eventual demise of the Dusk portfolio and wanted it away from himself. I don't think that game sources directly say how or why Jergal (who was a greater deity at the time) lost his portfolios to the Dead Three, but the fact he was so powerful means it seems unlikely to me that they overpowered him.
Indivisible
07-22-07, 09:28 PM Thank you for clearing that up for me.
Mirtek
07-23-07, 12:12 PM I don't think that game sources directly say how or why Jergal (who was a greater deity at the time) lost his portfolios to the Dead Three, but the fact he was so powerful means it seems unlikely to me that they overpowered him.
They do. He gave them to them as a present because he was bored of his own power (or so he claimed, the fact is that he gave them away, the reason for doing it may or may not be as he claimed)
WombleHunter
07-24-07, 08:24 AM There's a great story on this you can get in the Baldur's Gate 1 game; basically, the Dead Three were mighty mortal heroes who made a pact to gain divinity. They slew a low-power god and shared it's divine spark, then went after Jergal. Jergal, bored of his eons-long servitude of his portfolio, decided to give it away, and it was split evenly between the three. Jergal stayed on to advise them.
demi d20
07-24-07, 12:56 PM It has also been stated (can't remember where) that Jergal lost his portfolio's to the Three in a game of chance (Cards, dice?).
Andyr
07-24-07, 01:32 PM I'm familiar with the Baldur's Gate games (see my sig). :) I never knew if the game story (knucklebones) was mentioned anywhere besides there in canon, though. As an aside, it mentioned Malar too:

History of the Dead Three: 'KNUCKLEBONES, SKULL BOWLING, AND THE EMPTY THRONE'

In ages past there was but one god of strife, death, and the dead, and he was known as Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything. Jergal fomented and fed on the discord among mortals and powers alike. When beings slew each other in their quest for power or in their hatred, he welcomed them into his shadowy kingdom of eternal gloom. As all things died, everything came to him eventually, and over time he built his power into a kingdom unchallenged by any other god. Eventually, however, he grew tired of his duties for he knew them too well. Without challenge there is nothing, and in nothingness there is only gloom. In such a state, the difference between absolute power and absolute powerlessness is undetectable.

During this dark era, there arose three powerful mortals - Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul - who lusted after the power Jergal wielded. The trio forged an unholy pact, agreeing that they would dare to seek such ultimate power or die in the attempt. Over the length and breadth of the Realms they strode, seeking powerful magic and spells and defying death at every turn. No matter what monster they confronted or what spells they braved, the three mortals emerged unscathed at every turn. Eventually the trio destroyed one of the Seven Lost Gods, and they each seized a portion of his divine essence for themselves.

The trio then journeyed into the Gray Waste and sought out the Castle of Bone. Through armies of skeletons, legions of zombies, hordes or noncorporeal undead, and a gauntlet of liches they battled. Eventually they reached the object of their lifelong quest - the Bone Throne.

"I claim this throne of evil," shouted Bane the tyrant. "I'll destroy you before you can raise a finger," threatened Bhaal the assassin. "And I shall imprison your essence for eternity," promised Myrkul the necromancer.

Jergal arose from his throne with a weary expression and said, "The Throne is yours. I have grown weary of this empty power. Take it if you wish - I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position." Before the stunned trio could react, the Lord of the Dead continued, "who among you shall rule?"

The trio immediately fell to fighting amongst themselves while Jergal looked on with indifference. When eventually it appeared that either they would all die of exhaustion or battle on for an eternity, the Lord of the End of Everything intervened. "after all you have sacrificed, would you come away with nothing? Why don't you divide the portfolios of the office and engage in a game of skill for them?" asked Jergal.

Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul considered the god's offer and agreed. Jergal took the heads of his three most powerful liches and gave them to the trio that they would compete by bowling the skulls. Each mortal rolled a skull across the Gray Waste, having agreed that the winner would be he who bowled the farthest.

Malar the Beastlord arrived to visit Jergal at this moment. After quickly ascertaining that the winner of the contest would get all of Jergal's power, he chased off after the three skulls to make sure that the contest would be halted until he had a chance to participate for part of the prize. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul again fell to fighting as it was obvious their sport was ruined, and again Jergal intervened. "Why don't you allow Lady Luck to decide so you don't have to share with the Beast?"

The trio agreed, and Jergal broke off his skeletal finger bones and gave them to the players. When Malar returned form chasing the skulls, he found that the trio had just finished a game of knucklebones.

Bane cried out triumphantly, "As winner, I choose to rule for all eternity as the ultimate tyrant. I can induce hatred and strife at my whim, and all will bow down before me while in my kingdom."

Myrkul, who had won second place, declared, "But I choose the dead, and by doing so I truly win, because all you are lord over, Bane, will eventually be mine. All things must die - even gods."

Bhaal, who finished third, demurred, "I choose death, and it is by my hand that all that you rule Lord Bane will eventually pass to Lord Myrkul. Both of you must pay honor to me and obey my wishes, since I can destroy your kingdom Bane, by murdering your subjects, and I can starve your kingdom, Myrkul by staying my hand."

Malar growled in frustration, but could do nothing, and yet again only the beasts were left for him.

And Jergal merely smiled, for he had been delivered.

I took the last sentence to mean Jergal wanted to divest himself of his portfolios, which seems well-established, but didn't know whether the game story ever appeared something else (and as such whether it was meant to be a literal truth or not).
Sigurd van Norhusen
07-24-07, 02:49 PM It's also written in the 2nd edition Faiths & Pantheons, which should generally be read for background and clergy information of Faerunian gods, because 3rd edition F&P sucks extremely bad at this.
Derren S.
07-24-07, 06:33 PM I think a 3rd Edition book confirmed that Lathander is in reality Amaunator (or part of him)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Indivisible 07-20-07, 01:46 AM	I know that he's dead and that he may be Amon but what happened to him?
Sigurd van Norhusen 07-20-07, 01:53 AM	As far as I know, he starved to death due to lack of worship.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-20-07, 04:49 AM	As far as I know, he starved to death due to lack of worship. Bingo. It's possible however that some fraction of his essence might have either been absorbed by Lathander, or that Lathander as a whole is Amaunator returned from the dead in a different guise.
Mirtek 07-20-07, 12:23 PM	He was part of faerun's tripple-aspected sun-circle. Only one of them may exist at the same time (except for the time of change when two coexist for a while). Once there were Amauntor (noon) and Myrkul (dusk), then Aumauntor died leaving only Myrkul (dusk) as the current aspect until the rise of Lathander (dawn). For a time we had dusk and dawn until Myrkul died leaving only Lathander. Now we're waiting for the arrivial of the next noon-aspect to emerge and the eventual end of Lathander to begin the new reign of noon.
LordInsane 07-21-07, 01:27 PM	I thought two were the standard and one the exception?
ArcTan 07-22-07, 06:23 PM	The Three-Faced Sun heresy is just that -- a heresy. Never proven to be true, and actively opposed by most current worshippers of Lathander. (The simple heresy that Lathander is Amaunator and about to turn back into him is far more common.) Anyway, Myrkul wasn't the original dusk aspect, Jergal was -- Myrkul didn't become the dusk aspect until he stole Jergal's portfolio of the dead. The whole concept linking death deities to a solar aspect (dusk) seems dodgy to me, but whatever.
ArcTan 07-22-07, 06:24 PM	I thought two were the standard and one the exception? It is. If their theory is correct, having only one solar aspect is a very brief transition period between ages -- Lathander's sole place as sun-god is due to change very, very soon (either by Lathander becoming Amaunator and a new Dawnlord appearing, or Amaunator coming back as a new god).
ArcTan 07-22-07, 06:28 PM	Also, while Amaunator is certainly a famous dead god and sounds like "Amon", Amon is far more clearly a direct reference to the real-life Egyptian deity Amon (who, in real life, was the chief god of the pantheon for a long time, regarded as the chief aspect of Re, the sun, and then suddenly disappeared from all worship within a very short historical timeframe, to be replaced by Horus). Amaunator may be based on the real-life Amon, of course (although the Tome of Magic vestige Amon is much more clearly based on the real Amon, since the real Amon's idol was a ram and the vestige Amon has ram's horns).
Andyr 07-22-07, 07:11 PM	Anyway, Myrkul wasn't the original dusk aspect, Jergal was -- Myrkul didn't become the dusk aspect until he stole Jergal's portfolio of the dead. The whole concept linking death deities to a solar aspect (dusk) seems dodgy to me, but whatever. Not necessarily stole--I like to think that Jergal gave his portfolios away; perhaps he saw the eventual demise of the Dusk portfolio and wanted it away from himself. I don't think that game sources directly say how or why Jergal (who was a greater deity at the time) lost his portfolios to the Dead Three, but the fact he was so powerful means it seems unlikely to me that they overpowered him.
Indivisible 07-22-07, 09:28 PM	Thank you for clearing that up for me.
Mirtek 07-23-07, 12:12 PM	I don't think that game sources directly say how or why Jergal (who was a greater deity at the time) lost his portfolios to the Dead Three, but the fact he was so powerful means it seems unlikely to me that they overpowered him. They do. He gave them to them as a present because he was bored of his own power (or so he claimed, the fact is that he gave them away, the reason for doing it may or may not be as he claimed)
WombleHunter 07-24-07, 08:24 AM	There's a great story on this you can get in the Baldur's Gate 1 game; basically, the Dead Three were mighty mortal heroes who made a pact to gain divinity. They slew a low-power god and shared it's divine spark, then went after Jergal. Jergal, bored of his eons-long servitude of his portfolio, decided to give it away, and it was split evenly between the three. Jergal stayed on to advise them.
demi d20 07-24-07, 12:56 PM	It has also been stated (can't remember where) that Jergal lost his portfolio's to the Three in a game of chance (Cards, dice?).
Andyr 07-24-07, 01:32 PM	I'm familiar with the Baldur's Gate games (see my sig). :) I never knew if the game story (knucklebones) was mentioned anywhere besides there in canon, though. As an aside, it mentioned Malar too: History of the Dead Three: 'KNUCKLEBONES, SKULL BOWLING, AND THE EMPTY THRONE' In ages past there was but one god of strife, death, and the dead, and he was known as Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything. Jergal fomented and fed on the discord among mortals and powers alike. When beings slew each other in their quest for power or in their hatred, he welcomed them into his shadowy kingdom of eternal gloom. As all things died, everything came to him eventually, and over time he built his power into a kingdom unchallenged by any other god. Eventually, however, he grew tired of his duties for he knew them too well. Without challenge there is nothing, and in nothingness there is only gloom. In such a state, the difference between absolute power and absolute powerlessness is undetectable. During this dark era, there arose three powerful mortals - Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul - who lusted after the power Jergal wielded. The trio forged an unholy pact, agreeing that they would dare to seek such ultimate power or die in the attempt. Over the length and breadth of the Realms they strode, seeking powerful magic and spells and defying death at every turn. No matter what monster they confronted or what spells they braved, the three mortals emerged unscathed at every turn. Eventually the trio destroyed one of the Seven Lost Gods, and they each seized a portion of his divine essence for themselves. The trio then journeyed into the Gray Waste and sought out the Castle of Bone. Through armies of skeletons, legions of zombies, hordes or noncorporeal undead, and a gauntlet of liches they battled. Eventually they reached the object of their lifelong quest - the Bone Throne. "I claim this throne of evil," shouted Bane the tyrant. "I'll destroy you before you can raise a finger," threatened Bhaal the assassin. "And I shall imprison your essence for eternity," promised Myrkul the necromancer. Jergal arose from his throne with a weary expression and said, "The Throne is yours. I have grown weary of this empty power. Take it if you wish - I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position." Before the stunned trio could react, the Lord of the Dead continued, "who among you shall rule?" The trio immediately fell to fighting amongst themselves while Jergal looked on with indifference. When eventually it appeared that either they would all die of exhaustion or battle on for an eternity, the Lord of the End of Everything intervened. "after all you have sacrificed, would you come away with nothing? Why don't you divide the portfolios of the office and engage in a game of skill for them?" asked Jergal. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul considered the god's offer and agreed. Jergal took the heads of his three most powerful liches and gave them to the trio that they would compete by bowling the skulls. Each mortal rolled a skull across the Gray Waste, having agreed that the winner would be he who bowled the farthest. Malar the Beastlord arrived to visit Jergal at this moment. After quickly ascertaining that the winner of the contest would get all of Jergal's power, he chased off after the three skulls to make sure that the contest would be halted until he had a chance to participate for part of the prize. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul again fell to fighting as it was obvious their sport was ruined, and again Jergal intervened. "Why don't you allow Lady Luck to decide so you don't have to share with the Beast?" The trio agreed, and Jergal broke off his skeletal finger bones and gave them to the players. When Malar returned form chasing the skulls, he found that the trio had just finished a game of knucklebones. Bane cried out triumphantly, "As winner, I choose to rule for all eternity as the ultimate tyrant. I can induce hatred and strife at my whim, and all will bow down before me while in my kingdom." Myrkul, who had won second place, declared, "But I choose the dead, and by doing so I truly win, because all you are lord over, Bane, will eventually be mine. All things must die - even gods." Bhaal, who finished third, demurred, "I choose death, and it is by my hand that all that you rule Lord Bane will eventually pass to Lord Myrkul. Both of you must pay honor to me and obey my wishes, since I can destroy your kingdom Bane, by murdering your subjects, and I can starve your kingdom, Myrkul by staying my hand." Malar growled in frustration, but could do nothing, and yet again only the beasts were left for him. And Jergal merely smiled, for he had been delivered. I took the last sentence to mean Jergal wanted to divest himself of his portfolios, which seems well-established, but didn't know whether the game story ever appeared something else (and as such whether it was meant to be a literal truth or not).
Sigurd van Norhusen 07-24-07, 02:49 PM	It's also written in the 2nd edition Faiths & Pantheons, which should generally be read for background and clergy information of Faerunian gods, because 3rd edition F&P sucks extremely bad at this.
Derren S. 07-24-07, 06:33 PM	I think a 3rd Edition book confirmed that Lathander is in reality Amaunator (or part of him)