What is the closest plane to "The Void?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

What is the closest plane to "The Void?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tazi Swiftblade
03-15-07, 06:25 PM Buddhists believe that there are five elements: air, water, fire, earth and void.

Would the Ethereal Plane be the closest thing in D&D to the Void (i.e. the absence of the other four elements)?
Altar_Boy
03-15-07, 06:35 PM More likely, the Plane of Shadow or the Astral Plane. If you focus on lack of content, then Astral. If you focus on possibility through said medium, then Shadow.
Angelflesh
03-15-07, 07:16 PM More likely, the Plane of Shadow or the Astral Plane. If you focus on lack of content, then Astral. If you focus on possibility through said medium, then Shadow.

Definitely not the Plane of Shadow, it's pretty much the dark duplicate of the Material Plane as MotP puts it.

The Astral Plane, on the other hand, is a void in a sense, but it does bears many characteristics of a plane that isn't void.

Well, i suppose a Void Plane or Plane of Void would be in order...
Bertuccio
03-15-07, 07:26 PM Probably the Quasi-elemental plane of Vacuum?
Angelflesh
03-15-07, 08:14 PM Nothing says void like a vacuum.
High Octane
03-15-07, 08:56 PM The void is what's between the planes.
Angelflesh
03-15-07, 09:08 PM The void is what's between the planes.

Actually, that would be the Astral Plane. I will go ahead and quote one sentence from MotP.

"The Astral Plane is the space between the planes."
Gray Richardson
03-15-07, 09:59 PM The Astral Plane is also called "The Silver Void".
Shemeska the Marauder
03-15-07, 10:57 PM I wouldn't go with the Astral, because thematically it's so far divorced from any notion of elemental anything. Quasi-elemental vacuum might work, but that's more tied to the admixture of air and negative energy than the absence of the other elementals.

The ethereal might in theory work since it thematically bridges the gap between the elemental planes. It's a void of true matter, composed the raw possibility of anything. Depending on how you define "Void" the ethereal may be exactly what you want.
ArcTan
03-15-07, 11:13 PM Nothing says void like a vacuum.

On the other hand, Vacuum really is *void* as in a physical place where nothing exists. The Buddhist idea of "Void", which is pure possibility because of mind unfettered by physical restraints, really is the Astral Plane.

Hell, the term "astral plane" was *used* by New Agey types inspired by Buddhism and other religions for this state of transcendence long before D&D picked it up.
ArcTan
03-15-07, 11:13 PM The ethereal might in theory work since it thematically bridges the gap between the elemental planes. It's a void of true matter, composed the raw possibility of anything. Depending on how you define "Void" the ethereal may be exactly what you want.

I could go with either one.

But c'mon, guys, surely you've *heard* the term "astral plane" being used outside of D&D for this concept?
Andyr
03-17-07, 01:26 PM A Guide To The Astral Plane mentions the following, FWIW (p. 6):

The Astral is not like the Beastlands or the Plane of Ooze. It's certainly not like the Prime Material. In fact, it's not really a plane at all. It's not a plane, it has no space--it is the absence of space, the absence of a plane. It is the void between all true spaces. (For the purposes of this book, as well as all other PLANESCAPE products, the Astral will still be referred to as a "plane", as opposed to the unwieldy term "nonspacial nonplane".)

So cosmologically, I'd say it is a void--though thematically, I see it as a realm of the mind, of thoughts and feelings. I guess it's both.
sciborg2
03-17-07, 02:03 PM The Void is kinda the space between anything -- forgive my ignorance, but I'm thinking of the Zen idea that the emptiness within defines the bowl as much as the bowl's physical material. In some sense Vaccuum fits, but not the cold, dark plan that is the quasi-plane.

I think Oriental Adventures had some stuff about void elementals and beings from the void, but i don't recall the specific details.
Kojiro James
03-18-07, 01:10 AM I think Oriental Adventures had some stuff about void elementals and beings from the void, but i don't recall the specific details.

Umm... nope.
DrMorganes
03-18-07, 01:13 AM Probably the Quasi-elemental plane of Vacuum?

That one gets my vote.
Joni-san
03-18-07, 08:20 AM From my understadning of the Buddhist concept of Void, I'd go with the Astral as the first option and the Ethereal as second.

Shunyata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunyata) is the buddhist concept of void (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_(Buddhism)) discussed here.
Tazi Swiftblade
03-19-07, 11:51 AM Thanks for all the recommendations. I think the Astral Plane will be the one I go with to represent the Void.
Blarghy
03-19-07, 04:10 PM A little late, but the Negative Energy plane lacks air and actively sucks all life away, so it might be best considered the plane of Void.
ArcTan
03-20-07, 12:40 AM A little late, but the Negative Energy plane lacks air and actively sucks all life away, so it might be best considered the plane of Void.

It'd be a misrepresentation, I think. Buddhists venerate the Void because the Void represents *potential* of all things to become other things (the "emptiness" at the heart of existence that creates space for things to exist in).

The NE Plane isn't just nothing, it's less than nothing -- it makes something into nothing and prevents potential from exercising itself. As the Wikipedia article linked to in this thread says, that's a total misrepresentation of the Buddhist idea of Void -- it makes Buddhists sound like nihilists who actually would welcome, say, the death of everyone in the world and the end of existence, which is a total falsehood.
Spelldancer
03-20-07, 02:49 AM See, I was thinking the Negative Plane for Void.
ArcTan
03-20-07, 02:59 AM See, I was thinking the Negative Plane for Void.

Again, wrong idea for Void.

Negative Energy is something bad, to be avoided, dangerous, and that's not the Buddhist concept of Void. Even if you think of the NE Plane as morally neutral, it represents *ending*, entropy, things coming to a close, and that's not the Buddhist concept of Void either. Void is something that exists in all things even when they're at their most active and alive -- Buddhism would see the Negative and Positive Energy Planes in terms of the opposition between yin and yang and other dualities, and Void as the empty essence in between the two.
Greyman
03-20-07, 04:41 AM Buddhists believe that there are five elements: air, water, fire, earth and void.

Would the Ethereal Plane be the closest thing in D&D to the Void (i.e. the absence of the other four elements)?The Prime Material Plane completes the quintet, because it is composed of little spheres of matter strewn between vast gulfs of emty void.
ArcTan
03-20-07, 01:02 PM The Prime Material Plane completes the quintet, because it is composed of little spheres of matter strewn between vast gulfs of emty void.

That depends on your campaign.

Besides, it's clear that the Prime is just the world -- a combination of all five elements, the material elements combined with the Void between them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tazi Swiftblade 03-15-07, 06:25 PM	Buddhists believe that there are five elements: air, water, fire, earth and void. Would the Ethereal Plane be the closest thing in D&D to the Void (i.e. the absence of the other four elements)?
Altar_Boy 03-15-07, 06:35 PM	More likely, the Plane of Shadow or the Astral Plane. If you focus on lack of content, then Astral. If you focus on possibility through said medium, then Shadow.
Angelflesh 03-15-07, 07:16 PM	More likely, the Plane of Shadow or the Astral Plane. If you focus on lack of content, then Astral. If you focus on possibility through said medium, then Shadow. Definitely not the Plane of Shadow, it's pretty much the dark duplicate of the Material Plane as MotP puts it. The Astral Plane, on the other hand, is a void in a sense, but it does bears many characteristics of a plane that isn't void. Well, i suppose a Void Plane or Plane of Void would be in order...
Bertuccio 03-15-07, 07:26 PM	Probably the Quasi-elemental plane of Vacuum?
Angelflesh 03-15-07, 08:14 PM	Nothing says void like a vacuum.
High Octane 03-15-07, 08:56 PM	The void is what's between the planes.
Angelflesh 03-15-07, 09:08 PM	The void is what's between the planes. Actually, that would be the Astral Plane. I will go ahead and quote one sentence from MotP. "The Astral Plane is the space between the planes."
Gray Richardson 03-15-07, 09:59 PM	The Astral Plane is also called "The Silver Void".
Shemeska the Marauder 03-15-07, 10:57 PM	I wouldn't go with the Astral, because thematically it's so far divorced from any notion of elemental anything. Quasi-elemental vacuum might work, but that's more tied to the admixture of air and negative energy than the absence of the other elementals. The ethereal might in theory work since it thematically bridges the gap between the elemental planes. It's a void of true matter, composed the raw possibility of anything. Depending on how you define "Void" the ethereal may be exactly what you want.
ArcTan 03-15-07, 11:13 PM	Nothing says void like a vacuum. On the other hand, Vacuum really is void as in a physical place where nothing exists. The Buddhist idea of "Void", which is pure possibility because of mind unfettered by physical restraints, really is the Astral Plane. Hell, the term "astral plane" was used by New Agey types inspired by Buddhism and other religions for this state of transcendence long before D&D picked it up.
ArcTan 03-15-07, 11:13 PM	The ethereal might in theory work since it thematically bridges the gap between the elemental planes. It's a void of true matter, composed the raw possibility of anything. Depending on how you define "Void" the ethereal may be exactly what you want. I could go with either one. But c'mon, guys, surely you've heard the term "astral plane" being used outside of D&D for this concept?
Andyr 03-17-07, 01:26 PM	A Guide To The Astral Plane mentions the following, FWIW (p. 6): The Astral is not like the Beastlands or the Plane of Ooze. It's certainly not like the Prime Material. In fact, it's not really a plane at all. It's not a plane, it has no space--it is the absence of space, the absence of a plane. It is the void between all true spaces. (For the purposes of this book, as well as all other PLANESCAPE products, the Astral will still be referred to as a "plane", as opposed to the unwieldy term "nonspacial nonplane".) So cosmologically, I'd say it is a void--though thematically, I see it as a realm of the mind, of thoughts and feelings. I guess it's both.
sciborg2 03-17-07, 02:03 PM	The Void is kinda the space between anything -- forgive my ignorance, but I'm thinking of the Zen idea that the emptiness within defines the bowl as much as the bowl's physical material. In some sense Vaccuum fits, but not the cold, dark plan that is the quasi-plane. I think Oriental Adventures had some stuff about void elementals and beings from the void, but i don't recall the specific details.
Kojiro James 03-18-07, 01:10 AM	I think Oriental Adventures had some stuff about void elementals and beings from the void, but i don't recall the specific details. Umm... nope.
DrMorganes 03-18-07, 01:13 AM	Probably the Quasi-elemental plane of Vacuum? That one gets my vote.
Joni-san 03-18-07, 08:20 AM	From my understadning of the Buddhist concept of Void, I'd go with the Astral as the first option and the Ethereal as second. Shunyata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunyata) is the buddhist concept of void (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_(Buddhism)) discussed here.
Tazi Swiftblade 03-19-07, 11:51 AM	Thanks for all the recommendations. I think the Astral Plane will be the one I go with to represent the Void.
Blarghy 03-19-07, 04:10 PM	A little late, but the Negative Energy plane lacks air and actively sucks all life away, so it might be best considered the plane of Void.
ArcTan 03-20-07, 12:40 AM	A little late, but the Negative Energy plane lacks air and actively sucks all life away, so it might be best considered the plane of Void. It'd be a misrepresentation, I think. Buddhists venerate the Void because the Void represents potential of all things to become other things (the "emptiness" at the heart of existence that creates space for things to exist in). The NE Plane isn't just nothing, it's less than nothing -- it makes something into nothing and prevents potential from exercising itself. As the Wikipedia article linked to in this thread says, that's a total misrepresentation of the Buddhist idea of Void -- it makes Buddhists sound like nihilists who actually would welcome, say, the death of everyone in the world and the end of existence, which is a total falsehood.
Spelldancer 03-20-07, 02:49 AM	See, I was thinking the Negative Plane for Void.
ArcTan 03-20-07, 02:59 AM	See, I was thinking the Negative Plane for Void. Again, wrong idea for Void. Negative Energy is something bad, to be avoided, dangerous, and that's not the Buddhist concept of Void. Even if you think of the NE Plane as morally neutral, it represents ending, entropy, things coming to a close, and that's not the Buddhist concept of Void either. Void is something that exists in all things even when they're at their most active and alive -- Buddhism would see the Negative and Positive Energy Planes in terms of the opposition between yin and yang and other dualities, and Void as the empty essence in between the two.
Greyman 03-20-07, 04:41 AM	Buddhists believe that there are five elements: air, water, fire, earth and void. Would the Ethereal Plane be the closest thing in D&D to the Void (i.e. the absence of the other four elements)?The Prime Material Plane completes the quintet, because it is composed of little spheres of matter strewn between vast gulfs of emty void.
ArcTan 03-20-07, 01:02 PM	The Prime Material Plane completes the quintet, because it is composed of little spheres of matter strewn between vast gulfs of emty void. That depends on your campaign. Besides, it's clear that the Prime is just the world -- a combination of all five elements, the material elements combined with the Void between them.