Post/Author/DateTime	Post
goldomark 09-14-07, 02:46 AM	The spelling might be wrong but it's something Asmodeus did whit the gods, but what is it. I'm to frustrated to buy any 3.5 products anymore. I won't feed the beast anymore. Thanks.
Thegans 09-14-07, 02:51 AM	The spelling might be wrong but it's something Asmodeus did whit the gods, but what is it. I'm to frustrated to buy any 3.5 products anymore. I won't feed the beast anymore. Thanks. The Pact Primeval is a scam and a loophole by Asmodeous that allows him to tempt mortals into sending theirs souls to Baator, buying souls from mortals, and it allows him to torture souls to draw magic from them to use diving powers. The original gods of law agreed to this because they originally though Asmodeous would just be a prison warden.
goldomark 09-14-07, 03:31 AM	So they trusted the guy with horns? Do you meen divine powers or really diving powers? :) So they didn't keep the stuff from a Guide to Hell (2ed). Asmodeus feeding on the soul of the godless or was it faithless? Is Asmo one of the two serpents of law anymore or just a really powerful devil? Thanks. :)
Thegans 09-14-07, 03:46 AM	So they trusted the guy with horns? Do you meen divine powers or really diving powers? :) So they didn't keep the stuff from a Guide to Hell (2ed). Asmodeus feeding on the soul of the godless or was it faithless? Is Asmo one of the two serpents of law anymore or just a really powerful devil? Thanks. :) Sorry that was a typo I mean divine. They don't mention the serpents in Fiendish Codex 2 Anyway the basic idea was Asmodeuous was a champion of law doing really well battling the demons. The gods of law got tired of fighting the demons. The gods of law got upset that the mortals were starting to help the demons. Asmodeous creates the concept of punishment and is given the job. The gods of law get annoyed about people being tortured on their property. Asmodeous offers to move the operation somewhere else. The gods of law agree because the torture horiffied them. Asmodeous made them sign the pact ans sent him to a place he pointed to. Then Asmodeous and his fallen angels began to increase lawful evil couruption gathering magical energy and turning the souls of lawful evil mortals into lemures that could be promoted into stronger devil forms or demoted by adding or removing the divine energy. Thats basically what it mentions unless you go to the part mentioning Nessus which says that Asmodeous was litterally pushed out of the heavens and crashed into Nessus painfully causing him to constantly bleed devils while using the divine energy to heal his wounds.
goldomark 09-14-07, 04:10 AM	Groovy :cool:. But I prefered the old stuff. Thanks!
Thegans 09-14-07, 04:12 AM	Groovy :cool:. But I prefered the old stuff. Thanks! Your welcome.
Return of the Flumph 09-14-07, 11:26 AM	The two stories concerning Asmodeus' fall can be reconciled easily enough. Rather than "gods of law," you can say that the beings that sent one of their number to hell were the the Serpents. When chaos and evil (in the form of the demons) appeared, a third Serpent, the embodiment of Lawful Evil, was formed to combat them. The evil Serpent, called Asmodeous, pulled the Pact Primeval deal with the other two. When the LG and LN snakes realized they had been tricked, they beat the living $h!t out of Asmodeous and sent him plummeting back into his new plane. His body crashed at Serpent's Coil, and he's still trying to regenerate, using the energy from the souls he steals via the Pact Primeval to regenerate his form.
Thegans 09-14-07, 02:15 PM	The two stories concerning Asmodeus' fall can be reconciled easily enough. Rather than "gods of law," you can say that the beings that sent one of their number to hell were the the Serpents. When chaos and evil (in the form of the demons) appeared, a third Serpent, the embodiment of Lawful Evil, was formed to combat them. The evil Serpent, called Asmodeous, pulled the Pact Primeval deal with the other two. When the LG and LN snakes realized they had been tricked, they beat the living $h!t out of Asmodeous and sent him plummeting back into his new plane. His body crashed at Serpent's Coil, and he's still trying to regenerate, using the energy from the souls he steals via the Pact Primeval to regenerate his form. I prefer the angry jury theory that someone else once posted.
Keenath 09-14-07, 02:42 PM	Actually the Pact Primeval just says that Asmodeus has the right to the souls of the evil. It's the binding contract that specifies where souls should go, sort of thing. Asmodeus presented it as "here's how we can deal with evil mortals". The loophole is that nowhere did it actually specify any code of conduct, and therefore he started tempting people to BECOME evil, and therefore fall into his power when they die. As I understand it, the gods of good were quite put out when they found out what Azzy was doing in his off-time.
goldomark 09-15-07, 02:54 AM	But if Asmo gets all the evil souls, none should be left for Demons, Yugoloth and all the other lower planes. Or does Asmo just get the LE souls?
Thegans 09-15-07, 02:55 AM	But if Asmo gets all the evil souls, none should be left for Demons, Yugoloth and all the other lower planes. Or does Asmo just get the LE souls? Just lawful evil.
ArcTan 09-19-07, 03:06 AM	The two stories concerning Asmodeus' fall can be reconciled easily enough. Rather than "gods of law," you can say that the beings that sent one of their number to hell were the the Serpents. When chaos and evil (in the form of the demons) appeared, a third Serpent, the embodiment of Lawful Evil, was formed to combat them. The evil Serpent, called Asmodeous, pulled the Pact Primeval deal with the other two. When the LG and LN snakes realized they had been tricked, they beat the living $h!t out of Asmodeous and sent him plummeting back into his new plane. His body crashed at Serpent's Coil, and he's still trying to regenerate, using the energy from the souls he steals via the Pact Primeval to regenerate his form. And the difference between the LN and LG serpents is that the LN one is the one who accepts Asmodeus' theory that retribution is the basis of all Law (but *rejects* Asmodeus' corollary that he must be allowed to empower himself through the act of retribution), while the LG one rejected entirely the idea that violence, hatred and pain should be a part of Law. The LN one is the god that later myth represents as the deity St. Cuthbert speaking up -- briefly -- in Asmodeus' defense (and the real St. Cuthbert, a mortal who became a god, is a representative of the philosophy the LN Serpent held, at least at that point in time; that Law must always reject Evil but is still in some way a higher concept than Good).
ArcTan 09-19-07, 03:08 AM	Actually the Pact Primeval just says that Asmodeus has the right to the souls of the evil. It's the binding contract that specifies where souls should go, sort of thing. Asmodeus presented it as "here's how we can deal with evil mortals". The loophole is that nowhere did it actually specify any code of conduct, and therefore he started tempting people to BECOME evil, and therefore fall into his power when they die. In business, they call this kind of thing "moral hazard". This specifically is an example of the "principal-agent problem".
Deacon Liadon 09-19-07, 05:38 PM	But if Asmo gets all the evil souls, none should be left for Demons, Yugoloth and all the other lower planes. Or does Asmo just get the LE souls? Yugoloths don't get souls. It's a side effect of the purge. Souls that go to the three central lower planes generally become hoardlings I believe if they aren't taken by Night Hags, Ba'atezu, Tana'ri and whatever other nasties are running around down there.
Shemeska the Marauder 09-19-07, 07:35 PM	Yugoloths don't get souls. It's a side effect of the purge. Oh, they get them. They get a lot of them. They just don't use them to make more of themselves the way the other fiends do. The Abyss and Baator at least have the potential to rise to the top, a means to share in and elevate yourself atop your tormentors by tormenting those around you. The Waste never provides that option: you'll suffer and there won't be either an escape from it, or any upside to it. There is no hope in this bleak wonderland, etc. Not using mortal souls probably doesn't have anything to do with the purge of Law and Chaos though. It's probably the default condition based on their age w/ respect to mortal life being in existance. But larvae sure are yummy. *gnosh gnosh* Souls that go to the three central lower planes generally become hoardlings I believe if they aren't taken by Night Hags, Ba'atezu, Tana'ri and whatever other nasties are running around down there. If they stay on the Gray Waste: Larvae -> Hordeling -> Night Hag (potentially)
goldomark 09-20-07, 02:10 AM	So Yugoloth bread like «normal» beings? Like the Obyrith did?
Shemeska the Marauder 09-20-07, 07:47 AM	So Yugoloth bread like «normal» beings? Like the Obyrith did? Mostly they form spontaneously from the raw stuff of their native plane(s). A minority of them are formed via breeding.