Why Not Frey as God of the Elves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Why Not Frey as God of the Elves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DrowLover
02-13-08, 11:52 AM Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves?

Why is Corellon Larethian God of the Elves?

Why was Corellon Larethian even created when Frey was there?

Surtur and Thrym are Norse Gods of Giants but other Giant Gods where'nt created?

I have a need/hate relationship with Corellon Larethian.

I hate Corellon Larethian but I need her as a foil for my Drow.

But I would perfer to use someone else.

Thank You.

p.s. I don't know why but for some reason I feel I must say that I do not now nor have I ever played Forgotten Realms. It just never apealed to me. I never whent into Eberron cause it sounded like a title of a Japaniese Anime and I didn't want to play Japinese Anime D&D.

p.p.s. I'm a first edition player. I have a full set of 1e books. I don't have any 2e or 3e books cause I had bills to pay first but now that I have some extra money I am looking forward to 4e.
RAGNAROKISCOMING2007
02-13-08, 05:27 PM Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves?

He is the god of elves, just in the norse pantheon.

Why is Corellon Larethian God of the Elves?
Because he is a DND core deity.

Why was Corellon Larethian even created when Frey was there? Because he is a DND core deity.

Surtur and Thrym are Norse Gods of Giants but other Giant Gods where'nt created?
Some were created. You just have to look for them.
Taeldrin Laesrash
02-13-08, 11:55 PM Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves?

Why don't we have Hades ruling the dead instead of Nerull? Why do we have Obad-Hai when we have Silvanus, or Elhonna when there's Artemis? Should there even be a chief god of the D&D pantheon?

D&D isn't a simulation of these old times by default. If you want Frey to be your elf god, go ahead, but the rest of us may want a different kind of elf.

p.s. I don't know why but for some reason I feel I must say that I do not now nor have I ever played Forgotten Realms. It just never apealed to me. I never whent into Eberron cause it sounded like a title of a Japaniese Anime and I didn't want to play Japinese Anime D&D.

p.p.s. I'm a first edition player. I have a full set of 1e books. I don't have any 2e or 3e books cause I had bills to pay first but now that I have some extra money I am looking forward to 4e.

:confused:

PS. Ebberon is nothing close to anime, and anime in D&D is not bad.
DrowLover
02-14-08, 11:28 AM Because he is a DND core deity.QUOTE]

OK , perhaps I should have asked why Corellon Larethian is core instead of Frey. Frey is a Norse God but so is Tyr and Tyr became core in Forgotten Realms. Frey is more interisting becouse it seems to me that Corellon Larethian was made just to be an opposite to Loth. Where as Frey seems so much more.

[QUOTE=Taeldrin Laesrash;15087687]Why don't we have Hades ruling the dead instead of Nerull? Why do we have Obad-Hai when we have Silvanus, or Elhonna when there's Artemis? Should there even be a chief god of the D&D pantheon?

D&D isn't a simulation of these old times by default.QUOTE]

There is over 100 Gods and Goddesses in the Deities and Demigods book yet almost none of them are core in any setting. There's Tyr , Loviatar and the nonhuman Deities but I haven't heard of anybody else.

[QUOTE=Taeldrin Laesrash;15087687]If you want Frey to be your elf god, go ahead, but the rest of us may want a different kind of elf.

Core has intergrated Loth and Corellon together to such an extent that I can't realy get rid of Corellon without missing up Loth's backstory. Unless I want to make her Good or Neutral and then would the players recognize Loth as Loth

:confused:

PS. Ebberon is nothing close to anime, and anime in D&D is not bad.

When Eberron comes out for 4E I'll give it a try. I realy shouldn't be such a snob and you're right , I guess Anime in D&D wouldn't be bad , especially seeing how much I really love Anime. Which is a lot.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus
02-14-08, 01:36 PM The Developers are trying to get rid od interloping gods (like Tyr) from D&D anyways...
DrowLover
02-14-08, 03:08 PM The Developers are trying to get rid od interloping gods (like Tyr) from D&D anyways...

I don't see how Tyr is interloping , after all he is only core in Forgotten Realms not in any of the other game worlds and though I may be wrong isn't he the only law God or some such in the realms.

Besides didn't they , for 4E , create four different Elf races with four different Elf Deities? I'm propaly wrong on that but even so why create a whole new Pantheon of Elven Deities and not at least include Frey?

What do they have against Frey? He's a good Elf. So's his sister. Sure thier Norse but that didn't stop Tyr from becomeing core in the Forgotten Realms.
sciborg3
02-14-08, 03:25 PM Designers have said Thor will be part of 4e...they may change their minds however...
Taeldrin Laesrash
02-15-08, 01:16 AM OK , perhaps I should have asked why Corellon Larethian is core instead of Frey. Frey is a Norse God but so is Tyr and Tyr became core in Forgotten Realms. Frey is more interisting becouse it seems to me that Corellon Larethian was made just to be an opposite to Loth. Where as Frey seems so much more.

There is over 100 Gods and Goddesses in the Deities and Demigods book yet almost none of them are core in any setting. There's Tyr , Loviatar and the nonhuman Deities but I haven't heard of anybody else.

I'm not quite sure on the details, but I think C.L. and Lolth were created before the inclusion of Tyr and Bast and Loviatar in the FR pantheons. And it's worth noting that C.L. and Lolth were created and defined pretty much around the same time.

Core has intergrated Loth and Corellon together to such an extent that I can't realy get rid of Corellon without missing up Loth's backstory. Unless I want to make her Good or Neutral and then would the players recognize Loth as Loth

It's easier than you think. It's practically Biblical in nature. Lolth goes against the god of the elves, and he banishes her and her supporters.
Kain_Darkwind
02-15-08, 03:40 AM The Developers are trying to get rid od interloping gods (like Tyr) from D&D anyways...

You are kidding right? Thor is core for 4e.
turalisj
02-15-08, 04:31 AM Tyr is in FR, but not everyone plays FR. I personally stay away from the setting like the plague (a single god controlling every bit of magic?)
Naderion
02-15-08, 05:57 AM Older official books say that Tyr is really the norse Tyr who created a copy of himself in faerūn. Back then, D&D considerd all worlds to be part of the same multiverse, also the real world were Tyr originates from.
ripvanwormer
02-15-08, 12:49 PM You are kidding right? Thor is core for 4e.

That was true in earlier stages of development, but I don't think it's true now. They have a mixture of Greyhawk gods and completely new gods. Historical deities like Thor and Set are out.
Kain_Darkwind
02-15-08, 12:51 PM That was true in earlier stages of development, but I don't think it's true now. They have a mixture of Greyhawk gods and completely new gods. Historical deities like Thor and Set are out.

Really? Interesting. Can you point me toward where this was said?
ripvanwormer
02-15-08, 12:53 PM Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves?

Because there's more to D&D than Norse mythology. If Frey was the default god of the elves, elves would have a specifically Norse feel. They wanted elves to have a generic-fantasy feel instead.

If your campaign is built around the Norse gods, then Frey is the god of the elves.

If your campaign does not have Norse gods in it, the elves don't worship Norse gods either. It doesn't make much sense for a major PC race like elves to be a bunch of vikings if the humans aren't.

There is indeed a complete giant pantheon, which Surtr and Thrym have been incorporated into. The gods are all described in detail here, with bibliographies showing the official books they're described in: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Giant_deities
Drackthor
02-15-08, 02:05 PM PS. Ebberon is nothing close to anime, and anime in D&D is not bad.

For you. For some people, anime in D&D and, heck, anime in general, is very, very bad.
turalisj
02-15-08, 02:33 PM That's a matter of personal opinion. Anime/manga in the U.S is currently one of the biggest animated money makers. Give me a bit and I'm sure there are statistics out there.
DrowLover
02-16-08, 02:34 AM I'm not quite sure on the details, but I think C.L. and Lolth were created before the inclusion of Tyr and Bast and Loviatar in the FR pantheons. And it's worth noting that C.L. and Lolth were created and defined pretty much around the same time.

It's easier than you think. It's practically Biblical in nature. Lolth goes against the god of the elves, and he banishes her and her supporters.

Yes but weren't they supposed to have been of Grayhawk? The Giant and Drow series is set in Grayhawk or it was back in '78. Which is why whenever I thank of Drow I thank of Grayhawk. I wonder when and why they were moved to FR or are they still in Grayhawk?

You're right it is kinda Biblical isn't it , Thank for the advice.

You are kidding right? Thor is core for 4e.

That's great but I'm A BIG comics fan and thanks to Marvel whenever I thank of Thor I thank of The Avengers and I can just see Captian America as a shield swinging Paladin bringing law and order to the planet , oh that would be cool.

Tyr is in FR, but not everyone plays FR. I personally stay away from the setting like the plague (a single god controlling every bit of magic?)

I have one for my world , the Egyptians have Isis , the Greeks have Hecate , so it's not as uncommen as you might thank. As for playing FR , well I never have before but I plan on giving it a fair shot when it comes out for 4E.

Older official books say that Tyr is really the norse Tyr who created a copy of himself in faerūn. Back then, D&D considerd all worlds to be part of the same multiverse, also the real world were Tyr originates from.

But I thought that was why Spelljammer came out , as a way to make core all worlds in one universe but that was in 2E , did they change that for 3E?

Because there's more to D&D than Norse mythology. If Frey was the default god of the elves, elves would have a specifically Norse feel. They wanted elves to have a generic-fantasy feel instead.

If your campaign is built around the Norse gods, then Frey is the god of the elves.

If your campaign does not have Norse gods in it, the elves don't worship Norse gods either. It doesn't make much sense for a major PC race like elves to be a bunch of vikings if the humans aren't.

There is indeed a complete giant pantheon, which Surtr and Thrym have been incorporated into. The gods are all described in detail here, with bibliographies showing the official books they're described in: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Giant_deities

But Tyr is Norse and he's in FR. Just becouse a Deity is Norse doesn't mean that Deity can't be used anywhere else. Just twik thyem a bit and voila Thor in Babaylonian , Sif in Sumerian , Odin in Celtic , any Deity can fit anywhere with just a bit of twiking. Just a bit mind you twik them to much and you might as well give them a new name. Which is how I Create new Deities for my world.

I'm just trying to get inside WotC heads to find out why they didn't want to twik Frey to be core in Forgoten Realms or Grayhawk or Eberron or one of the other words? They are constently creating new Gods and Goddess' for the Elves while igoring the one that's alwady there. The Elven God of Sunsine , Frey.

However , that being said , what you say DOES make a lot of sense. Back in 1E if you were Norse or Greek or whatever , that was it , you were stuck , Norse was Norse , Greek was Greek and you couldn't change them up. So your'e right , they needed to come up with a generic Deity that could be put in any world. Thanks for the help.

Thanks for the info on the Giants , preshate-it. :)
Artifact
02-16-08, 02:58 AM Really? Interesting. Can you point me toward where this was said?

I'll second this request, since I was anxious to finally see actual gods of myth as core in 4e. I've been waiting for a "core Thor" since 1st edition. I've enjoyed classical mythology since grade school (sorta like some kids dig dinosaurs ;)).

Ahh, dinosaurs and D&D, that's a whole other thread :).
ripvanwormer
02-16-08, 12:56 PM Really? Interesting. Can you point me toward where this was said?

It was in Races and Classes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/0786948019). The god Zehir was known as Set in earlier stages of development.

The pantheon mentioned in Worlds and Monsters (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/216497400) is: Bahamut, Vecna, Avandra, Zehir, Ioun, Pelor, Tiamat, Gruumsh, Lolth, Corellon, Moradin, Kord, Bane, The Raven Queen, Asmodeus, Torog. I'm assuming Kord takes the place of Thor. The full pantheon has 'twenty plus one' gods - most people are assuming the "plus one" is Tharizdun, who was mentioned in the article on the Abyss. The halfling article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080208a) mentions Melora, who seems to replace Obad-Hai (since Races and Classes said the halflings were created by Sehanine and Obad-Hai).

See also Design and development (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071029).

There was a time when the team working on "the world" of D&D thought we could get away with creating general rules useful to clerics regardless of which pantheon existed in the campaign, and then presenting a variety of fictional and historical pantheons for DMs to adopt or adapt as they saw fit...

We ended up creating a new pantheon. At first, we used some of the gods from 3rd Edition as placeholder names -- we thought we'd come up with new names for [Pelor] the sun god and [Moradin] the god of the forge. Ultimately we decided that using some familiar faces was preferable to giving our players a whole new set of names to learn. Besides, if a god looks like an elf and took out the orc-god's eye like a certain well-known elf god, why not call him Corellon?
turalisj
02-16-08, 01:16 PM Just to note that Bahumut and Tiamat both existed in mesopatamian mythos.

Continue :P
ripvanwormer
02-16-08, 01:27 PM Just to note that Bahumut and Tiamat both existed in mesopatamian mythos.

Tiamat did. Bahamut is of Arabic/Semitic origin, and was never part of Mesopotamian myth. But these are the D&D versions, which share little in common with their mythological namesakes other than their names (the Chromatic Dragon and the Platinum Dragon existed in D&D before they were given personal names, in fact).

But point taken. Other than Bahamut and Tiamat, historical deity names seem to be out of the core rules.
ripvanwormer
02-16-08, 01:34 PM Oh, and Seraph of Karsus wasn't kidding. Tyr is out of the Forgotten Realms (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=213048).

Tyr was originally included by Ed Greenwood, who intended his pantheon to be a mix of real-world and re-named real-world and literary deities. Corellon Larethian was created years before that by James M. Ward and Robert J. Kuntz as part of the "nonhuman deities" chapter of Deities & Demigods. They wouldn't have known about Ed Greenwood's decision to include Tyr in his campaign, since Greenwood hadn't made that decision yet. Frey was in 1st edition Deities & Demigods too, however, and it was mentioned that some elves worship him in those campaigns that use Norse gods.

Anyway, it looks like the 4e Forgotten Realms won't have Tyr in it, so it's unlikely it'll have Frey either.

Note that there is no "God of the elves" in 4e. Corellon, Sehanine, and Lolth are all 4e gods, but they're worshipped by many races, not just elves and eladrins. In 4e, Sehanine will be treated as the same deity as the Forgotten Realms moon goddess Selune (probably), and Corellon will replace Boccob and Mystra (it looks like) as the god of magic.

Note that there's been no suggestion that the 4e core pantheon will replace the Faerunian pantheon entirely. The Sehanine-Selune connection was suggested by Rich Baker, but not confirmed definitively. It seems logical to assume that core deities like Corellon (who does replace Boccob as the core god of magic), Lolth, and Sehanine who also have established places in the Forgotten Realms will have roles similar to their core ones in Faerun. Mystra's death is, as most people know by now, confirmed.
RavinRay
02-18-08, 06:33 PM Oh, and Seraph of Karsus wasn't kidding. [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=213048]It seems logical to assume that core deities like Corellon (who does replace Boccob as the core god of magic)…
Boccob's uncaring, anyway, he can just migrate to another world. That's what you get for being a negligent god. :smirk:
Drackthor
02-20-08, 02:35 AM *gasp* No! Not Boccob! Spare him!

At least we have his evil twin brother, Boccob. (I reversed the letters in his name.)
RavinRay
02-20-08, 06:28 AM How can Boccob have an "evil twin" Boccob if he's neutral? Assuming they're antithetical to each other, maybe one is passively neutral, the other is strongly neutral. :ayyyy!:
Drackthor
02-20-08, 03:01 PM How can Boccob have an "evil twin" Boccob if he's neutral? Assuming they're antithetical to each other, maybe one is passively neutral, the other is strongly neutral. :ayyyy!:

Oh he doesn't, I just wanted a setup for a joke about his name is the same backwards.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus
02-21-08, 01:46 AM For your peace of mind, They are killing Mystra for the reason you describe above even though that's a BIG miscomseption she does control ALL magic. Let me Explain :

In FR casters use the Weave for their spells and Mystra IS the Weave, However there's also The Shadow Weave(controled by Shar) witch have a symbiotic(?) relationship with the Weave.

that said Mystra can not restrict no one from using the Weave (The Overdiety Ao forbids her to because its against her responsabilities as a godess of magic).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DrowLover 02-13-08, 11:52 AM	Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves? Why is Corellon Larethian God of the Elves? Why was Corellon Larethian even created when Frey was there? Surtur and Thrym are Norse Gods of Giants but other Giant Gods where'nt created? I have a need/hate relationship with Corellon Larethian. I hate Corellon Larethian but I need her as a foil for my Drow. But I would perfer to use someone else. Thank You. p.s. I don't know why but for some reason I feel I must say that I do not now nor have I ever played Forgotten Realms. It just never apealed to me. I never whent into Eberron cause it sounded like a title of a Japaniese Anime and I didn't want to play Japinese Anime D&D. p.p.s. I'm a first edition player. I have a full set of 1e books. I don't have any 2e or 3e books cause I had bills to pay first but now that I have some extra money I am looking forward to 4e.
RAGNAROKISCOMING2007 02-13-08, 05:27 PM	Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves? He is the god of elves, just in the norse pantheon. Why is Corellon Larethian God of the Elves? Because he is a DND core deity. Why was Corellon Larethian even created when Frey was there? Because he is a DND core deity. Surtur and Thrym are Norse Gods of Giants but other Giant Gods where'nt created? Some were created. You just have to look for them.
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-13-08, 11:55 PM	Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves? Why don't we have Hades ruling the dead instead of Nerull? Why do we have Obad-Hai when we have Silvanus, or Elhonna when there's Artemis? Should there even be a chief god of the D&D pantheon? D&D isn't a simulation of these old times by default. If you want Frey to be your elf god, go ahead, but the rest of us may want a different kind of elf. p.s. I don't know why but for some reason I feel I must say that I do not now nor have I ever played Forgotten Realms. It just never apealed to me. I never whent into Eberron cause it sounded like a title of a Japaniese Anime and I didn't want to play Japinese Anime D&D. p.p.s. I'm a first edition player. I have a full set of 1e books. I don't have any 2e or 3e books cause I had bills to pay first but now that I have some extra money I am looking forward to 4e. :confused: PS. Ebberon is nothing close to anime, and anime in D&D is not bad.
DrowLover 02-14-08, 11:28 AM	Because he is a DND core deity.QUOTE] OK , perhaps I should have asked why Corellon Larethian is core instead of Frey. Frey is a Norse God but so is Tyr and Tyr became core in Forgotten Realms. Frey is more interisting becouse it seems to me that Corellon Larethian was made just to be an opposite to Loth. Where as Frey seems so much more. [QUOTE=Taeldrin Laesrash;15087687]Why don't we have Hades ruling the dead instead of Nerull? Why do we have Obad-Hai when we have Silvanus, or Elhonna when there's Artemis? Should there even be a chief god of the D&D pantheon? D&D isn't a simulation of these old times by default.QUOTE] There is over 100 Gods and Goddesses in the Deities and Demigods book yet almost none of them are core in any setting. There's Tyr , Loviatar and the nonhuman Deities but I haven't heard of anybody else. [QUOTE=Taeldrin Laesrash;15087687]If you want Frey to be your elf god, go ahead, but the rest of us may want a different kind of elf. Core has intergrated Loth and Corellon together to such an extent that I can't realy get rid of Corellon without missing up Loth's backstory. Unless I want to make her Good or Neutral and then would the players recognize Loth as Loth :confused: PS. Ebberon is nothing close to anime, and anime in D&D is not bad. When Eberron comes out for 4E I'll give it a try. I realy shouldn't be such a snob and you're right , I guess Anime in D&D wouldn't be bad , especially seeing how much I really love Anime. Which is a lot.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-14-08, 01:36 PM	The Developers are trying to get rid od interloping gods (like Tyr) from D&D anyways...
DrowLover 02-14-08, 03:08 PM	The Developers are trying to get rid od interloping gods (like Tyr) from D&D anyways... I don't see how Tyr is interloping , after all he is only core in Forgotten Realms not in any of the other game worlds and though I may be wrong isn't he the only law God or some such in the realms. Besides didn't they , for 4E , create four different Elf races with four different Elf Deities? I'm propaly wrong on that but even so why create a whole new Pantheon of Elven Deities and not at least include Frey? What do they have against Frey? He's a good Elf. So's his sister. Sure thier Norse but that didn't stop Tyr from becomeing core in the Forgotten Realms.
sciborg3 02-14-08, 03:25 PM	Designers have said Thor will be part of 4e...they may change their minds however...
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-15-08, 01:16 AM	OK , perhaps I should have asked why Corellon Larethian is core instead of Frey. Frey is a Norse God but so is Tyr and Tyr became core in Forgotten Realms. Frey is more interisting becouse it seems to me that Corellon Larethian was made just to be an opposite to Loth. Where as Frey seems so much more. There is over 100 Gods and Goddesses in the Deities and Demigods book yet almost none of them are core in any setting. There's Tyr , Loviatar and the nonhuman Deities but I haven't heard of anybody else. I'm not quite sure on the details, but I think C.L. and Lolth were created before the inclusion of Tyr and Bast and Loviatar in the FR pantheons. And it's worth noting that C.L. and Lolth were created and defined pretty much around the same time. Core has intergrated Loth and Corellon together to such an extent that I can't realy get rid of Corellon without missing up Loth's backstory. Unless I want to make her Good or Neutral and then would the players recognize Loth as Loth It's easier than you think. It's practically Biblical in nature. Lolth goes against the god of the elves, and he banishes her and her supporters.
Kain_Darkwind 02-15-08, 03:40 AM	The Developers are trying to get rid od interloping gods (like Tyr) from D&D anyways... You are kidding right? Thor is core for 4e.
turalisj 02-15-08, 04:31 AM	Tyr is in FR, but not everyone plays FR. I personally stay away from the setting like the plague (a single god controlling every bit of magic?)
Naderion 02-15-08, 05:57 AM	Older official books say that Tyr is really the norse Tyr who created a copy of himself in faerūn. Back then, D&D considerd all worlds to be part of the same multiverse, also the real world were Tyr originates from.
ripvanwormer 02-15-08, 12:49 PM	You are kidding right? Thor is core for 4e. That was true in earlier stages of development, but I don't think it's true now. They have a mixture of Greyhawk gods and completely new gods. Historical deities like Thor and Set are out.
Kain_Darkwind 02-15-08, 12:51 PM	That was true in earlier stages of development, but I don't think it's true now. They have a mixture of Greyhawk gods and completely new gods. Historical deities like Thor and Set are out. Really? Interesting. Can you point me toward where this was said?
ripvanwormer 02-15-08, 12:53 PM	Why is Frey of the Norse Gods not THE God of the Elves? Because there's more to D&D than Norse mythology. If Frey was the default god of the elves, elves would have a specifically Norse feel. They wanted elves to have a generic-fantasy feel instead. If your campaign is built around the Norse gods, then Frey is the god of the elves. If your campaign does not have Norse gods in it, the elves don't worship Norse gods either. It doesn't make much sense for a major PC race like elves to be a bunch of vikings if the humans aren't. There is indeed a complete giant pantheon, which Surtr and Thrym have been incorporated into. The gods are all described in detail here, with bibliographies showing the official books they're described in: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Giant_deities
Drackthor 02-15-08, 02:05 PM	PS. Ebberon is nothing close to anime, and anime in D&D is not bad. For you. For some people, anime in D&D and, heck, anime in general, is very, very bad.
turalisj 02-15-08, 02:33 PM	That's a matter of personal opinion. Anime/manga in the U.S is currently one of the biggest animated money makers. Give me a bit and I'm sure there are statistics out there.
DrowLover 02-16-08, 02:34 AM	I'm not quite sure on the details, but I think C.L. and Lolth were created before the inclusion of Tyr and Bast and Loviatar in the FR pantheons. And it's worth noting that C.L. and Lolth were created and defined pretty much around the same time. It's easier than you think. It's practically Biblical in nature. Lolth goes against the god of the elves, and he banishes her and her supporters. Yes but weren't they supposed to have been of Grayhawk? The Giant and Drow series is set in Grayhawk or it was back in '78. Which is why whenever I thank of Drow I thank of Grayhawk. I wonder when and why they were moved to FR or are they still in Grayhawk? You're right it is kinda Biblical isn't it , Thank for the advice. You are kidding right? Thor is core for 4e. That's great but I'm A BIG comics fan and thanks to Marvel whenever I thank of Thor I thank of The Avengers and I can just see Captian America as a shield swinging Paladin bringing law and order to the planet , oh that would be cool. Tyr is in FR, but not everyone plays FR. I personally stay away from the setting like the plague (a single god controlling every bit of magic?) I have one for my world , the Egyptians have Isis , the Greeks have Hecate , so it's not as uncommen as you might thank. As for playing FR , well I never have before but I plan on giving it a fair shot when it comes out for 4E. Older official books say that Tyr is really the norse Tyr who created a copy of himself in faerūn. Back then, D&D considerd all worlds to be part of the same multiverse, also the real world were Tyr originates from. But I thought that was why Spelljammer came out , as a way to make core all worlds in one universe but that was in 2E , did they change that for 3E? Because there's more to D&D than Norse mythology. If Frey was the default god of the elves, elves would have a specifically Norse feel. They wanted elves to have a generic-fantasy feel instead. If your campaign is built around the Norse gods, then Frey is the god of the elves. If your campaign does not have Norse gods in it, the elves don't worship Norse gods either. It doesn't make much sense for a major PC race like elves to be a bunch of vikings if the humans aren't. There is indeed a complete giant pantheon, which Surtr and Thrym have been incorporated into. The gods are all described in detail here, with bibliographies showing the official books they're described in: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Giant_deities But Tyr is Norse and he's in FR. Just becouse a Deity is Norse doesn't mean that Deity can't be used anywhere else. Just twik thyem a bit and voila Thor in Babaylonian , Sif in Sumerian , Odin in Celtic , any Deity can fit anywhere with just a bit of twiking. Just a bit mind you twik them to much and you might as well give them a new name. Which is how I Create new Deities for my world. I'm just trying to get inside WotC heads to find out why they didn't want to twik Frey to be core in Forgoten Realms or Grayhawk or Eberron or one of the other words? They are constently creating new Gods and Goddess' for the Elves while igoring the one that's alwady there. The Elven God of Sunsine , Frey. However , that being said , what you say DOES make a lot of sense. Back in 1E if you were Norse or Greek or whatever , that was it , you were stuck , Norse was Norse , Greek was Greek and you couldn't change them up. So your'e right , they needed to come up with a generic Deity that could be put in any world. Thanks for the help. Thanks for the info on the Giants , preshate-it. :)
Artifact 02-16-08, 02:58 AM	Really? Interesting. Can you point me toward where this was said? I'll second this request, since I was anxious to finally see actual gods of myth as core in 4e. I've been waiting for a "core Thor" since 1st edition. I've enjoyed classical mythology since grade school (sorta like some kids dig dinosaurs ;)). Ahh, dinosaurs and D&D, that's a whole other thread :).
ripvanwormer 02-16-08, 12:56 PM	Really? Interesting. Can you point me toward where this was said? It was in Races and Classes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/0786948019). The god Zehir was known as Set in earlier stages of development. The pantheon mentioned in Worlds and Monsters (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/216497400) is: Bahamut, Vecna, Avandra, Zehir, Ioun, Pelor, Tiamat, Gruumsh, Lolth, Corellon, Moradin, Kord, Bane, The Raven Queen, Asmodeus, Torog. I'm assuming Kord takes the place of Thor. The full pantheon has 'twenty plus one' gods - most people are assuming the "plus one" is Tharizdun, who was mentioned in the article on the Abyss. The halfling article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080208a) mentions Melora, who seems to replace Obad-Hai (since Races and Classes said the halflings were created by Sehanine and Obad-Hai). See also Design and development (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071029). There was a time when the team working on "the world" of D&D thought we could get away with creating general rules useful to clerics regardless of which pantheon existed in the campaign, and then presenting a variety of fictional and historical pantheons for DMs to adopt or adapt as they saw fit... We ended up creating a new pantheon. At first, we used some of the gods from 3rd Edition as placeholder names -- we thought we'd come up with new names for [Pelor] the sun god and [Moradin] the god of the forge. Ultimately we decided that using some familiar faces was preferable to giving our players a whole new set of names to learn. Besides, if a god looks like an elf and took out the orc-god's eye like a certain well-known elf god, why not call him Corellon?
turalisj 02-16-08, 01:16 PM	Just to note that Bahumut and Tiamat both existed in mesopatamian mythos. Continue :P
ripvanwormer 02-16-08, 01:27 PM	Just to note that Bahumut and Tiamat both existed in mesopatamian mythos. Tiamat did. Bahamut is of Arabic/Semitic origin, and was never part of Mesopotamian myth. But these are the D&D versions, which share little in common with their mythological namesakes other than their names (the Chromatic Dragon and the Platinum Dragon existed in D&D before they were given personal names, in fact). But point taken. Other than Bahamut and Tiamat, historical deity names seem to be out of the core rules.
ripvanwormer 02-16-08, 01:34 PM	Oh, and Seraph of Karsus wasn't kidding. Tyr is out of the Forgotten Realms (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=213048). Tyr was originally included by Ed Greenwood, who intended his pantheon to be a mix of real-world and re-named real-world and literary deities. Corellon Larethian was created years before that by James M. Ward and Robert J. Kuntz as part of the "nonhuman deities" chapter of Deities & Demigods. They wouldn't have known about Ed Greenwood's decision to include Tyr in his campaign, since Greenwood hadn't made that decision yet. Frey was in 1st edition Deities & Demigods too, however, and it was mentioned that some elves worship him in those campaigns that use Norse gods. Anyway, it looks like the 4e Forgotten Realms won't have Tyr in it, so it's unlikely it'll have Frey either. Note that there is no "God of the elves" in 4e. Corellon, Sehanine, and Lolth are all 4e gods, but they're worshipped by many races, not just elves and eladrins. In 4e, Sehanine will be treated as the same deity as the Forgotten Realms moon goddess Selune (probably), and Corellon will replace Boccob and Mystra (it looks like) as the god of magic. Note that there's been no suggestion that the 4e core pantheon will replace the Faerunian pantheon entirely. The Sehanine-Selune connection was suggested by Rich Baker, but not confirmed definitively. It seems logical to assume that core deities like Corellon (who does replace Boccob as the core god of magic), Lolth, and Sehanine who also have established places in the Forgotten Realms will have roles similar to their core ones in Faerun. Mystra's death is, as most people know by now, confirmed.
RavinRay 02-18-08, 06:33 PM	Oh, and Seraph of Karsus wasn't kidding. [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=213048]It seems logical to assume that core deities like Corellon (who does replace Boccob as the core god of magic)… Boccob's uncaring, anyway, he can just migrate to another world. That's what you get for being a negligent god. :smirk:
Drackthor 02-20-08, 02:35 AM	gasp No! Not Boccob! Spare him! At least we have his evil twin brother, Boccob. (I reversed the letters in his name.)
RavinRay 02-20-08, 06:28 AM	How can Boccob have an "evil twin" Boccob if he's neutral? Assuming they're antithetical to each other, maybe one is passively neutral, the other is strongly neutral. :ayyyy!:
Drackthor 02-20-08, 03:01 PM	How can Boccob have an "evil twin" Boccob if he's neutral? Assuming they're antithetical to each other, maybe one is passively neutral, the other is strongly neutral. :ayyyy!: Oh he doesn't, I just wanted a setup for a joke about his name is the same backwards.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-21-08, 01:46 AM	For your peace of mind, They are killing Mystra for the reason you describe above even though that's a BIG miscomseption she does control ALL magic. Let me Explain : In FR casters use the Weave for their spells and Mystra IS the Weave, However there's also The Shadow Weave(controled by Shar) witch have a symbiotic(?) relationship with the Weave. that said Mystra can not restrict no one from using the Weave (The Overdiety Ao forbids her to because its against her responsabilities as a godess of magic).