Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChrisRogers 03-04-07, 10:31 PM	Hey all, quick question . . . When a multi-class wizard gains a level in a class that states that he gains "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" does he also get to learn 2 new spells automatically scribed into his spell book (as a wizard would)?
TwiddleStootch 03-04-07, 11:41 PM	When a new archmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he became an archmage, he must decide to which class he adds each level of archmage for the purpose of determining spells per day. Hmm, going by this example, it is a little unclear. It just says new spells per day and spells known, but that is only for sorcerer. But I would rule that you would, seems that must be what was intended.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-04-07, 11:46 PM	Yes. Sorcerers get more spells know, clerics get access to higher-level spells, and wizards get two new spells from anything they can cast.
ChrisRogers 03-05-07, 06:42 AM	Hu-Ra! Thanks guys!
Lord Nedd 03-06-07, 01:29 PM	Quote: Originally Posted by Example From Archmage When a new archmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he became an archmage, he must decide to which class he adds each level of archmage for the purpose of determining spells per day. Yes. Sorcerers get more spells know, clerics get access to higher-level spells, and wizards get two new spells from anything they can cast. See the above quote and notice the bolded area. From what I can tell that means that the wizard doesn't get the 2 bonus spells that he would if he was a wizard. He doesn't get the free feat selection at the 5th level increments as well. That doesn't mean the archmage can't learn spells from scrolls or othe players or spend explicit RP time crafting spells. I don't recollect seeing anything in the SRD or FAQ to disprove this. But my memory is fuzzy (must be having children). -LN
Epicweaver 03-06-07, 01:56 PM	Quote: He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.This quote directly refers to advancement of familiar, class features (such as turn undead, wild shape, animal companion, etc). When you cast spells as a wizard and gain a casting level, you gain the standard spells scribed in your spellbook as normal.
Epicweaver 03-06-07, 02:02 PM	Ironically, I went looking for references to cite to disprove LN's POV. However, I did find a quirk in the Spellbook paragraph under Wizard.... "At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook." - Player's Handbook (page 57) I felt this was pretty funny... by a strict reading... Yes... Prestige Classed Wizards don't, technically, gain new spells scribed when they level.. Very short sighted of the writing staff for the PHB. I still think the intent was to give them them the spells scribed as they level, but, it's possible to argue otherwise (even if it doesn't make any sense).
WinterPsionic 03-06-07, 02:07 PM	Ironically, I went looking for references to cite to disprove LN's POV. However, I did find a quirk in the Spellbook paragraph under Wizard.... "At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook." - Player's Handbook (page 57) I felt this was pretty funny... by a strict reading... Yes... Prestige Classed Wizards don't, technically, gain new spells scribed when they level.. Very short sighted of the writing staff for the PHB. I still think the intent was to give them them the spells scribed as they level, but, it's possible to argue otherwise (even if it doesn't make any sense). I always took "+1 level of existing spell casting class" to mean an effective "+1 level of Wizard" etc. The idea that it would stop a wizard from getting new spells is rather ludicrous IMHO.
Epicweaver 03-06-07, 02:20 PM	I always took "+1 level of existing spell casting class" to mean an effective "+1 level of Wizard" etc. The idea that it would stop a wizard from getting new spells is rather ludicrous IMHO.I completely agree with you and think just about any reasonable DM does too. Arguing RAW tends to frequently disregard the assumed intent of the writers. Especially if you're arguing the side more favorable to you. But it's still fun/useful to know where the sore points are in the text as a DM. If only the designers would use more rigid formats and get better editors... Ah well, I guess that's a lot to ask for $30-40 a book... >.<
Lord Nedd 03-08-07, 04:36 PM	I completely agree with you and think just about any reasonable DM does too. Arguing RAW tends to frequently disregard the assumed intent of the writers. Especially if you're arguing the side more favorable to you. But it's still fun/useful to know where the sore points are in the text as a DM. If only the designers would use more rigid formats and get better editors... Ah well, I guess that's a lot to ask for $30-40 a book... >.< I suppose that poses the question, what exactly does a straight wizard inherently get every level that a PrC doesn't. His familiar improves, get get a bonus feat from a very narrow selection, and he gets a bonus two spells that signify that he has been researching spells with his free time (he also has started with a free feat, scribe scroll). The big advantage of a wizard over, let us say any other arcane caster is that they can improve their spell list ad infinitim from exterior sources. Given materials and a modicum of time, they can learn every spell within their spell circle known to man. No other arcane caster comes close that versatility. The drawback is that because they have to prepare their spells ahead of time, they can either be caught in an encounter where their spells that they have prepared are utterly useless (or they didn't prepare a spell yet and haven't the time to do so). A Sorceror, besides having on average 50% more spells per level, has a narrow band of focus per Spell Circle to allow to draw from, but he will never find out, "Damn, I really needed that invisibility today instead of scorching ray." I remember reading that excerpt from the Wizard's spellbook section as well and trying to wrap my mind around this. Has anyone posited to the Sage about this issue? -LN
Merestil Haye 03-08-07, 10:46 PM	I remember reading that excerpt from the Wizard's spellbook section as well and trying to wrap my mind around this. Has anyone posited to the Sage about this issue?-LNThis question came up quite frequently - in 3.0 days. It was so definitively settled that it's no longer really questioned. From the 3.0 FAQ.I can’t find any information about how many spells prestige class spellcasters know. I am going on the presumption that those that gain bonus spells per day of their existing class (such as loremaster and spellsword) do not automatically add additional spells to their spellbook as they gain levels. They do add spells to their lists. For example, a wizard /loremaster gains 2 spells for her spellbook when using a loremaster level to increase spellcasting. A sorcerer/loremaster would learn more spells as well. Adding spells to your spellbook or personal repertoire is part of spellcasting.This is the principle. Learning spells is a part of spellcasting. So yes, the wizard does get new spells when he takes a level in a prestige class that grants "+1 level in existing spellcasting class."
Dragonteuthis 03-13-07, 06:25 PM	Besides the FAQ, just think how absolutely stupid it would be if a Sorcerer taking a prestige class learned new spells but a wizard taking the same prestige class did not learn new spells.
Lord Nedd 03-13-07, 11:47 PM	Besides the FAQ, just think how absolutely stupid it would be if a Sorcerer taking a prestige class learned new spells but a wizard taking the same prestige class did not learn new spells. See the aforementioned Sig for clarification about D&D and Common sense about being sometimes orthogonal. -LN
Marcus Majarra 03-16-07, 01:09 PM	Besides, a wizard's known spell selection is that found in his spellbook(s). Thus, by adding spells to the spellbook(s), he gets new spells known.