2-wpn fighting + imp shield bash + wpn finesse? [Archive] - Wizards Community

2-wpn fighting + imp shield bash + wpn finesse? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nightwing
12-03-07, 03:07 PM I have a human paladin with the stats:s 10,d 15,c 10,i 14,w 12,ch 14.

my plan is to have him be a 2-weapon wielder, where his off-hand weapon is a light spiked shield. He has 2-weapon fighting and improved shield bash as his first 2 feats. I also want to give him weapon finesse to take advantage of his high dex and he'd use a rapier. However, looking at the weapon finesse feat I see that having a shield in the off-hand causes problems. Should this drawback apply if he has all 3 of these feats? It doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I think I can combine these three feats for a total attack scheme (at third level, when he gets his third feat) of +3/+3 primary/secondary (+3 BAB, -2 two-weapon fighting, light off-hand weapon, +2 weapon finesse applying to rapier and light shield) with no loss of shield bonus to AC.

Yes?
rimble
12-03-07, 04:27 PM I have a human paladin with the stats:s 10,d 15,c 10,i 14,w 12,ch 14.

my plan is to have him be a 2-weapon wielder, where his off-hand weapon is a light spiked shield. He has 2-weapon fighting and improved shield bash as his first 2 feats. I also want to give him weapon finesse to take advantage of his high dex and he'd use a rapier. However, looking at the weapon finesse feat I see that having a shield in the off-hand causes problems. Should this drawback apply if he has all 3 of these feats? It doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I don't see anything that would allow you to ignore that additional -1 to your attack roll that the light shield would impose when using Weapon Finesse. You'll just need to aim for getting a Mithral Light Shield to make that penalty go away.
nightwing
12-03-07, 04:41 PM I guess I don't understand why a light shield should impose a penalty when any other light weapon would not. The light shield, in this case, IS a weapon, just like a short sword or whatever.
rimble
12-03-07, 05:10 PM I guess I don't understand why a light shield should impose a penalty when any other light weapon would not. The light shield, in this case, IS a weapon, just like a short sword or whatever.

Just realized mithral is overkill...a masterwork light shield will take care of it...

I don't think it's that crazy to say a 12" platter strapped to your arm interferes more with your fluid dexterous attacks than a dagger or light mace or whatever...
weasel0
12-03-07, 05:12 PM sorta. You're using it as a weapon, but it still is a sheild. It's like fastening a sword to your arm and then claiming it's a sheild and wondering why it doesn't work as well as a sheild.

It's similar(not is) to a wizard who is proficient with medium armor doesn't take any attack penalties, but still has a spell failure chance when casting ray spells(or any spell for that matter).

There are just some penalties that just will never go away for using certain things in a manner they weren't meant to be used in.
nightwing
12-04-07, 10:17 AM ok, I can accept that. Thanks guys.
FaithlessOfLux
12-06-07, 10:54 PM There's a way around this. Noted in races of stone, and complete warrior I believe. There are some weapons such as the gnome tortise blade which provide the +1 ac and impose no penalties. I'm pulling this off the top of my head but that's what these shield/weapons are designed for. They are a weapon that is a shield as well. There's a dwarf variety as well.
Cantankerous
12-07-07, 03:50 AM I'm not sure where I saw it, but the main gauche, the basket hilted parrying dagger that was made to use off hand with the rapier in the other should do the same thing... that IS what it was designed for after all.

Isshia
A_Ninja_Errant
12-07-07, 05:22 PM There's a way around this. Noted in races of stone, and complete warrior I believe. There are some weapons such as the gnome tortise blade which provide the +1 ac and impose no penalties. I'm pulling this off the top of my head but that's what these shield/weapons are designed for. They are a weapon that is a shield as well. There's a dwarf variety as well.
Actually they never state (in Races of Stone at least) that that is the effect. They work just like a normal light shield, but they have better crits. x3 for the Dwarven Bucker-axe, 19-20/x2 for the Gnome Tortoise Blade. Otherwise they seem to work exactly like a normal light shield. It even states that when you attack with it you do not gain the AC bonus. And you have to burn another feat to learn to use it too, which really sucks for a paladin who doesn't get many feats to start with. So yeah you're probably better off with a masterwork light shield.
As for the Maine-gauche, I don't recall a 3.5 source for it, but there probably is one. Anyone know?
EDIT: oh yeah they do a d6 instead of a d4 as well. So not too bad.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nightwing 12-03-07, 03:07 PM	I have a human paladin with the stats:s 10,d 15,c 10,i 14,w 12,ch 14. my plan is to have him be a 2-weapon wielder, where his off-hand weapon is a light spiked shield. He has 2-weapon fighting and improved shield bash as his first 2 feats. I also want to give him weapon finesse to take advantage of his high dex and he'd use a rapier. However, looking at the weapon finesse feat I see that having a shield in the off-hand causes problems. Should this drawback apply if he has all 3 of these feats? It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I think I can combine these three feats for a total attack scheme (at third level, when he gets his third feat) of +3/+3 primary/secondary (+3 BAB, -2 two-weapon fighting, light off-hand weapon, +2 weapon finesse applying to rapier and light shield) with no loss of shield bonus to AC. Yes?
rimble 12-03-07, 04:27 PM	I have a human paladin with the stats:s 10,d 15,c 10,i 14,w 12,ch 14. my plan is to have him be a 2-weapon wielder, where his off-hand weapon is a light spiked shield. He has 2-weapon fighting and improved shield bash as his first 2 feats. I also want to give him weapon finesse to take advantage of his high dex and he'd use a rapier. However, looking at the weapon finesse feat I see that having a shield in the off-hand causes problems. Should this drawback apply if he has all 3 of these feats? It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I don't see anything that would allow you to ignore that additional -1 to your attack roll that the light shield would impose when using Weapon Finesse. You'll just need to aim for getting a Mithral Light Shield to make that penalty go away.
nightwing 12-03-07, 04:41 PM	I guess I don't understand why a light shield should impose a penalty when any other light weapon would not. The light shield, in this case, IS a weapon, just like a short sword or whatever.
rimble 12-03-07, 05:10 PM	I guess I don't understand why a light shield should impose a penalty when any other light weapon would not. The light shield, in this case, IS a weapon, just like a short sword or whatever. Just realized mithral is overkill...a masterwork light shield will take care of it... I don't think it's that crazy to say a 12" platter strapped to your arm interferes more with your fluid dexterous attacks than a dagger or light mace or whatever...
weasel0 12-03-07, 05:12 PM	sorta. You're using it as a weapon, but it still is a sheild. It's like fastening a sword to your arm and then claiming it's a sheild and wondering why it doesn't work as well as a sheild. It's similar(not is) to a wizard who is proficient with medium armor doesn't take any attack penalties, but still has a spell failure chance when casting ray spells(or any spell for that matter). There are just some penalties that just will never go away for using certain things in a manner they weren't meant to be used in.
nightwing 12-04-07, 10:17 AM	ok, I can accept that. Thanks guys.
FaithlessOfLux 12-06-07, 10:54 PM	There's a way around this. Noted in races of stone, and complete warrior I believe. There are some weapons such as the gnome tortise blade which provide the +1 ac and impose no penalties. I'm pulling this off the top of my head but that's what these shield/weapons are designed for. They are a weapon that is a shield as well. There's a dwarf variety as well.
Cantankerous 12-07-07, 03:50 AM	I'm not sure where I saw it, but the main gauche, the basket hilted parrying dagger that was made to use off hand with the rapier in the other should do the same thing... that IS what it was designed for after all. Isshia
A_Ninja_Errant 12-07-07, 05:22 PM	There's a way around this. Noted in races of stone, and complete warrior I believe. There are some weapons such as the gnome tortise blade which provide the +1 ac and impose no penalties. I'm pulling this off the top of my head but that's what these shield/weapons are designed for. They are a weapon that is a shield as well. There's a dwarf variety as well. Actually they never state (in Races of Stone at least) that that is the effect. They work just like a normal light shield, but they have better crits. x3 for the Dwarven Bucker-axe, 19-20/x2 for the Gnome Tortoise Blade. Otherwise they seem to work exactly like a normal light shield. It even states that when you attack with it you do not gain the AC bonus. And you have to burn another feat to learn to use it too, which really sucks for a paladin who doesn't get many feats to start with. So yeah you're probably better off with a masterwork light shield. As for the Maine-gauche, I don't recall a 3.5 source for it, but there probably is one. Anyone know? EDIT: oh yeah they do a d6 instead of a d4 as well. So not too bad.