Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shinryouga 04-14-07, 02:30 PM	Ok, help is appreciated, so here we go: 1. If a creature with natural reach (not a reach weapon) charges, can it choose to close to adjacent to the target, or must it stay on the outside of it's reach, as that is technically the "closest" path to the target. Main reason is for preventing easy escape on target's turn with a withdraw action or 5' step. 2. Does damage "sent" through a Shield Other spell become "typeless"? In other words, if a fighter with Shield Other cast on him by a cleric takes 40 fire damage, but the cleric has fire resist 20 (ring, racial, spell), will the cleric take no damage because the 20 he takes is nullified by his resistance? Or does the damage become "not fire" and go straight through? 3. Do poisions that cause sleep (drow, psuedodragon) render the target asleep for the duration, regardless of disturbance (noise, injury, etc), or do they operate like the sleep spell, which can be broken by injury. The idea that such poisons are like anesthetic was made, suggesting at least that victims might not wake from damage. Help with these is greatly appreciated!
tos_shai_hulud 04-14-07, 03:05 PM	Ok, help is appreciated, so here we go: 1. If a creature with natural reach (not a reach weapon) charges, can it choose to close to adjacent to the target, or must it stay on the outside of it's reach, as that is technically the "closest" path to the target. Main reason is for preventing easy escape on target's turn with a withdraw action or 5' step. According to the RAW, "First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent." By that statement, it is saying that if you have reach (natural reach or a reach weapon), the first space you can attack, you must stop your charge and attack. The idea, I believe, is not that the character actually stops there, but at the moment when the attack is adjudicated, the charging attacker is at the extent of his reach, giving the opponent the opportunity to react (possibly with a 5' step). 2. Does damage "sent" through a Shield Other spell become "typeless"? In other words, if a fighter with Shield Other cast on him by a cleric takes 40 fire damage, but the cleric has fire resist 20 (ring, racial, spell), will the cleric take no damage because the 20 he takes is nullified by his resistance? Or does the damage become "not fire" and go straight through? Since it states that the wounds are transferred, a burn would transfer as a burn, and it seems likely would be fire damage, still. If the cleric has fire resist 20, yes, I would agree that he would resist up to 20 fire damage. 3. Do poisions that cause sleep (drow, psuedodragon) render the target asleep for the duration, regardless of disturbance (noise, injury, etc), or do they operate like the sleep spell, which can be broken by injury. The idea that such poisons are like anesthetic was made, suggesting at least that victims might not wake from damage. Help with these is greatly appreciated! As outlined in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#tablePoisons), Drow poison causes the target to become unconscious/knocked out. This usually results from having hit points below 0, indicating that the target cannot be awoken. Since the secondary effect is listed as lasting for 2d4 hours, that might be a good guideline to use for similar effects.
Nom 04-16-07, 07:13 AM	2. Does damage "sent" through a Shield Other spell become "typeless"? In other words, if a fighter with Shield Other cast on him by a cleric takes 40 fire damage, but the cleric has fire resist 20 (ring, racial, spell), will the cleric take no damage because the 20 he takes is nullified by his resistance? Or does the damage become "not fire" and go straight through?To start with, there are two sensible ways this could be done: (1) the shielder takes half damage before any modifiers. The damage is typed. (2) the shielder takes half of the hit points the subject actually loses. The damage is untyped. Anything that allows the damage to actually be applied to the target and then transferred typed and have resistances reapplied is double-dipping and doesn't really make sense. So which is it? The text says "the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you.". It doesn't say "half of the damage applied by any attack is applied to you", but rather "the subject takes half damage, and you lose the other hit points that the subject should have lost". While not explicit, this strongly suggests interpretation #2. It's interesting to note that the Expanded Psionics Handbook has several similar abilities, and most of them add text to clarify that it is hit point loss that is transferred, not half the attack.
tos_shai_hulud 04-16-07, 07:40 AM	Nom's advice is better than mine in this case. I would go with his recommendations.
mvincent 04-16-07, 01:09 PM	It doesn't say "half of the damage applied by any attack is applied to you", but rather "the subject takes half damage, and you lose the other hit points that the subject should have lost". While not explicit, this strongly suggests interpretation #2.So if you have a charmed/dominated troll in your basement using a ring of friend shield, the troll could shrug off any damage you split with him, including fire damage (since it becomes untyped)?
Marcus Majarra 04-16-07, 01:25 PM	By RAW, that would be correct, mvincent. I prefer to adjudicate the simple ruling that nothing can prevent you from taking the damage not sustained by your ward. In other words, if your ward is spared 3 points of nonlethal damage, you take 3 points of nonlethal damage; if your ward is spared 3 points of lethal damage, you take 3 points of lethal damage.
rmccowen 04-16-07, 01:27 PM	1. If a creature with natural reach (not a reach weapon) charges, can it choose to close to adjacent to the target, or must it stay on the outside of it's reach, as that is technically the "closest" path to the target. Main reason is for preventing easy escape on target's turn with a withdraw action or 5' step. No, the creature cannot choose to close. If you have reach, charging prevents you from "basing" another creature. 2. Does damage "sent" through a Shield Other spell become "typeless"? In other words, if a fighter with Shield Other cast on him by a cleric takes 40 fire damage, but the cleric has fire resist 20 (ring, racial, spell), will the cleric take no damage because the 20 he takes is nullified by his resistance? Or does the damage become "not fire" and go straight through? I use Nom's #2; figure out how much damage the fighter takes (40), then apply half of it as "untyped" damage to the cleric. If the fighter had the resistance, then both the fighter and the cleric would take 10 damage, instead. 3. Do poisions that cause sleep (drow, psuedodragon) render the target asleep for the duration, regardless of disturbance (noise, injury, etc), or do they operate like the sleep spell, which can be broken by injury. The idea that such poisons are like anesthetic was made, suggesting at least that victims might not wake from damage. I'd treat "unconscious" as a separate condition from "asleep". So if you have a charmed/dominated troll in your basement using a ring of friend shield, the troll could shrug off any damage you split with him, including fire damage (since it becomes untyped)? Well... yeah. :blink:
mvincent 04-16-07, 01:52 PM	I'd treat "unconscious" as a separate condition from "asleep".Exactly. Drow poison causes unconsciousness rather than sleep. From the 3.5 FAQ: "Dragons are immune to sleep and paralysis effects. Does this include “unconsciousness” effects, such as from drow poison or a color spray spell? No. Both sleep and paralysis effects create specific conditions defined in the rules (although the “sleeping” condition created by most sleep effects is typically defined in the effect, rather than the glossary). Unconsciousness is an entirely different condition, and dragons are not immune to becoming unconscious."
Evil DM Mk3 04-16-07, 02:27 PM	MUST NOT LET PLAYERS SEE TROLL IDEA. Very useful thread this, thatnks guys!