Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jadehawk 04-02-07, 02:45 PM	Say you are standing by a 10' passage waiting for an enemy to walk through so you can spank him with your sword, but he happens to step out on the far side of the doorway. You have readied a standard action to strike, but can you also use a free action to get a 5' step so you can get within reach? For that matter, can you use other free actions during a readied action like yelling to someone in your party? The reason I bring this up is because my DM and I argued about this last session. RAW indicates that you are readying a standard action (only) when you do so, but a free action is supposed to be done (within a limit set at your DM's discretion) on your turn, whether it be done around a standard action, move equivalent, or full round action for that matter. Technically I saw no problem in it. Saying you can't suggests that while you can ready an action to hit someone, you can't ready your action to drop something out of your hands and punch somebody, or yell at someone when you punch them. Your thoughts?
olshanski_home 04-02-07, 02:53 PM	I certainly allow readied actions to also involve a 5' shift. I ask that the player clarify that he attacks as soon as he is able (which means a 5' shift is acceptable), or whether he stands his ground until the action is available (no 5' shift). Note that you cannot take your move action to move 20 feet, then ready an action to shift 5' and attack. You can only 5' shift if you don't also move in the round.
orionm42 04-02-07, 02:58 PM	As Olshanski noted, a five foot step on a readied action is RAW... READY You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round. As for free actions, the number of free actions in any round is at your DM's discretion (as you noted). However, I allow them as part of a readied action within reason (and I think calling out to your fellow adventurers is within reason).
jadehawk 04-02-07, 04:05 PM	Thanks guys, I will refer my DM to this post before next session, and try not to rub it in too much...while still rubbing it in a little.
mvincent 04-02-07, 06:38 PM	I will refer my DM to this post before next session, and try not to rub it in too much...while still rubbing it in a little.Why hold back? I recommend really poking that bees nest. You should even dare him to off your character. I assume he'll be reading this thread, so I'll help: DM: I dare ya to just try and kill 'im (then have an NPC raise him and kill him several more times, selling off his gear to pay for it). I double-dog dare ya!
jadehawk 04-03-07, 11:27 AM	Why hold back? I recommend really poking that bees nest. You should even dare him to off your character. I assume he'll be reading this thread, so I'll help: DM: I dare ya to just and try and kill 'im (then have an NPC raise him and kill him several more times, selling off his gear to pay for it). I double-dog dare ya! I see no way that this could possibly backfire...though I do believe I should first poke him with a stick or something just to get him agitated before I insult and provoke him further.
Ace_of_time 04-03-07, 11:36 AM	When did a 5' step count as a free action? Just wondered.
olshanski_home 04-03-07, 11:42 AM	5' step is not a free action. The OP was incorect in saying that it was a free action. It is a "not an action" that you take on your turn, as long as you have no other movement during that round.
jadehawk 04-03-07, 12:07 PM	right; i stand corrected.
Ace_of_time 04-03-07, 07:34 PM	Anyway as far as I know when you ready an action as long as the action happens before your next turn you than you take all action after that on that init count. And that you can take a 5' step as part of that action if you didn't move last turn before you readied the action. There is a number of things that can be counted as a move action beside moving. I'd check that first before jumping the DM. And don't forget rule #1 the DM is always right even if his is wrong.
Marcus Majarra 04-04-07, 04:52 PM	I'm not sure what you mean: if you ready an action and the conditions are met before the start of your next turn, your initiative count moves to the point where the conditions for the readied action takes place, you make your readied action, and your turn ends there until the next time your initiative count reaches your new initiative.
Ace_of_time 04-04-07, 08:41 PM	yes that is what I was trying to say.
ryryguy 04-04-07, 09:19 PM	Does anybody allow someone to ready a partial charge? I think by RAW it's not allowed, but it seems like it would be reasonable, assuming you meet the other conditions. Plus I wouldn't allow you to take any regular move action and then ready it (so you couldn't game your way around the straight line restriction).
Ace_of_time 04-04-07, 10:04 PM	1st what is a partial charge. 2nd I don't think you can ready a full round action. May I would allow it on a surprise round.
tos_shai_hulud 04-04-07, 10:22 PM	1st what is a partial charge. 2nd I don't think you can ready a full round action. May I would allow it on a surprise round. A partial charge can be made on a surprise round or during a round in which you are slowed (or if you are a zombie). Rather than moving double your normal move, you can only move at maximum your normal move.
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 12:09 AM	Not to fight but it would still be a full round action , I think I would allow it if the player spoke a good reason for it.
mvincent 04-05-07, 11:59 AM	Does anybody allow someone to ready a partial charge? I think by RAW it's not allowedAs mentioned above, by strict RAW it is technically allowed, but only if you are limited to partial actions to begin with: on the surprise round, you are slowed, you are a zombie, etc.. This is a glitch, but it's there. it seems like it would be reasonableAs mentioned above, this would effectively make charging a standard action for all purposes, and one could avoid most of the restrictions associated with charging. This is a significant change to the rules, and would have some balance issue. Also note: even just readying a move action (which is currently allowed) has been shown to create difficulties/oddities for DM's.
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 12:11 PM	I don't believe I have seen where the RAW says a surprise round charge is a standard action. Can you point me at a Page number please? Thank you.
Merestil Haye 04-05-07, 12:20 PM	It's a footnote to the table on full-round actions. Personally, yes I would allow it, but only if the character has not changed position on the board at all during his turn. So he can not move and ready a charge, or even 5' step and ready a charge.
mvincent 04-05-07, 12:21 PM	I don't believe I have seen where the RAW says a surprise round charge is a standard action.From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge): "If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed)." and (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm#surprise) "combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round"
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 12:31 PM	So on page 154 PHB where it says that if you move 10' or double your speed a charge is still a full round actions. that doesn't mean anything.
mvincent 04-05-07, 12:43 PM	So on page 154 PHB where it says that if you move 10' or double your speed a charge is still a full round actions. that doesn't mean anything.I'm unsure what you are asking. Can you rephrase the question (possibly with quotes from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/))? Are you reading the complete rules on charging (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge)?
ryryguy 04-05-07, 01:19 PM	As mentioned above, this would effectively make charging a standard action for all purposes, and one could avoid most of the restrictions associated with charging. This is a significant change to the rules, and would have some balance issue. Yeah, that's why I said (though not very clearly) I'd only allow it if it wasn't being used to avoid those restrictions. As per Merestil Haye, only if the player hasn't actually moved at all before readying it. Perhaps even just say that it takes a full-round action (and no 5' step) to ready the partial charge. Thus no drinking a potion, then readying it... and also, the character is still only able to move up to his speed with the readied charge, instead of up to twice his speed as with a regular charge. So the character is actually giving something up in exchange for being able to ready it. Also note: even just readying a move action (which is currently allowed) has been shown to create difficulties/oddities for DM's. Such as?
mvincent 04-05-07, 01:25 PM	Such as?Readying an action to move can allow someone to move outside of a spell effect, move behind cover, moving during the middle of an opponent's charge, etc. Timed right, it can be truly annoying to a DM (and many have expressed frustration in adjudicating it).
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 05:22 PM	I'm unsure what you are asking. Can you rephrase the question (possibly with quotes from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/))? Are you reading the complete rules on charging (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge)? This is a quote from your link. "Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move. Movement During a Charge You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent. You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge. If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn. Attacking on a Charge After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn. A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush an opponent. Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge. Lances and Charge Attacks A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge. Weapons Readied against a Charge Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character." This is the same the on page154 of the PHB and nether of them say that you can ready full round action. There is a place that says you can charge on a surprise round when you are only allowed a standard or move action, but not that in this EX that a charge is not counted a full round action which it always is.
mvincent 04-05-07, 05:50 PM	nether of them say that you can ready full round action. There is a place that says you can charge on a surprise round when you are only allowed a standard or move action, but not that in this EX that a charge is not counted a full round action which it always is.You still make no sense. Are you arguing that the charge is still technically a full-round action even in cases where it can be done with a standard action? The following seems to imply that the charge becomes a standard action in such cases: "If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed)." (in fact, I'm not sure how to interpret that otherwise). Then there is the previously mentioned footnote (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundActions) which says: "May be taken as a standard action if you are limited to taking only a single action in a round." That certainly seems unambiguous. What exactly are you arguing?
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 06:02 PM	Yes that is in-fact what I have said twice. That it is still a full round action, and that a shortened round doesn't change that. But that I might allow it if the Player could tell me a good reason for letting it happen. And it really says, "If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn." But it doesn't say it is a standard action just that the action is shorter.
mvincent 04-05-07, 06:10 PM	Yes that is in-fact what I have said twice.No (although you might believe that is what you implied each time, it was not very clear at all). That it is still a full round actionAs indicated (several times), by Rules As Written it becomes a standard action.
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 06:13 PM	AS i just edited it does not. If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
mvincent 04-05-07, 06:16 PM	AS i just edited it does not.What part of (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundActions) "May be taken as a standard action" confuses you?
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 06:20 PM	What part of "May be taken as a standard action" confuses you? Maybe it's the part about it not being in there. That might just have something to do with it.
mvincent 04-05-07, 06:33 PM	Maybe it's the part about it not being in there. That might just have something to do with it.It certainly is in the rules. It was just not in the stuff you were quoting (even though that certainly seemed to imply the same). It's in a footnote in the Full-Round Action table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundActions) (as mentioned earlier, several times). I quoted it several times, and I had even supplied links. I'm not sure what more can be done to help you here. I believe I have been pretty darn patient.
Ace_of_time 04-05-07, 06:40 PM	Then the table says it is a full round that is consided a standard action because it can't be a move action. I'm sorry for think since you said it was under charge and having read under charge it was not there . You could have just told me to look under full round action for the quote.
Toki_Wartooth 04-05-07, 06:43 PM	Maybe it's the part about it not being in there.Hey Ace: it's there (in the links provided). You seem to be getting savagely pwn'd here (prison style), but by a very polite person. Wazzup?
mvincent 04-05-07, 06:50 PM	You could have just told me to look under full round action for the quote.Ah, I will endeaver to be clearer about this in the future, like in Merestil Haye's earlier post in this thread: It's a footnote to the table on full-round actions. ... or possibly like in (any one of) my latter posts which referenced it, quoted the appropriate text, and provided a link.
rmccowen 04-05-07, 07:48 PM	In response to the OP, rather than the troll's clever derailment, your DM is indeed in conflict with the RAW in this case. However, your post didn't specify whether you were in combat or not. You can never ready an action outside of combat. If you've heard an ogre up ahead, then he steps out from behind a door, that's either a surprise round (if he was unaware of your party's approach) or normal initiative.
Ace_of_time 04-06-07, 02:58 AM	I still consider it a full round action no matter how short the action is. You would think it would depend on whether you move full speed or double for the charge. Sometimes I just get a stick up my but, sorry people.
JustinA 04-10-07, 07:51 PM	I still consider it a full round action no matter how short the action is. You would think it would depend on whether you move full speed or double for the charge. Sometimes I just get a stick up my but, sorry people. I'm increasingly convinced this guy is a troll. I don't see how anyone could actually be this functionally illiterate and still be able to create an account in order to post here. Seriously. Who could possibly read the phrase "may be taken as a standard action" and conclude that this means it's still a full round action? What part of "standard action" could he possibly be incapable of understanding? Justin Alexander http://www.thealexandrian.net
Ace_of_time 04-11-07, 02:16 AM	I'm increasingly convinced this guy is a troll. I don't see how anyone could actually be this functionally illiterate and still be able to create an account in order to post here. Seriously. Who could possibly read the phrase "may be taken as a standard action" and conclude that this means it's still a full round action? What part of "standard action" could he possibly be incapable of understanding? Justin Alexander http://www.thealexandrian.net "may be taken as a standard action" means that during special times, like on a surprise round, it can be taken as a standard action. Not that it is a standard action. I learn the rules like everyone else. I play until the rules question comes up then we look up the rules and I'm sorry that I don't go to every source on earth to find every meaning for every rule in this game. No where in the books I had did it say ("may be taken as a standard action" ) so I posted on the rules that I had on the matter. Is that a problem?
JustinA 04-11-07, 04:11 AM	"may be taken as a standard action" means that during special times, like on a surprise round, it can be taken as a standard action. Not that it is a standard action. So it's a standard action, but it's not a standard action? Stop trolling. No where in the books I had did it say ("may be taken as a standard action" ) Hmm... So you're claiming that you don't even own a Player's Handbook. This would probably explain why you're having a problem figuring out the rules. Stop trolling. Justin Alexander http://www.thealexandrian.net
Ace_of_time 04-11-07, 11:49 PM	So it's a standard action, but it's not a standard action? Stop trolling. Hmm... So you're claiming that you don't even own a Player's Handbook. This would probably explain why you're having a problem figuring out the rules. Stop trolling. Justin Alexander http://www.thealexandrian.net In the PHB it says that a charge action is a full round action that can be taken on a surprise round. And under full round action page 141 is where quote is. I didn't see that at the time and have been helped on it by a friend. Yes if it was a standard action it would be under standard actions table not full round action table.
TheDarkLord 04-12-07, 12:01 AM	*snip* Um, check out his Join date, March of 2007. He might not have been playing DnD as long as you or I and have yet to figure the entire system out. It's quite a daunting task. To say he's trolling is pretty much a CoC violation, when in fact, he himself was unclear of the ruling and couldn't quite put 2 and 2 together yet. I know it took me a while to figure out just how a 1 round action was different than a full round action, and how to split them up. It happens, deal with it, if you don't like it, dont post.
Ace_of_time 04-12-07, 12:15 AM	yes I'm new. What is trolling? If by 1 round action you mean like surprise rounds and the like I do under stand that it is considered a standard action at these times and what I was saying is that the overall charge action was a full round action and that these other times are just special circumstances. I don't try to fight with people on purpose. could you please point out what ruling and I hope he doesn't start on you like he has me?
TheDarkLord 04-12-07, 12:33 AM	Basically a partial charge is one of those exceptions. It is treated as a standard action or a move action and can be used in the suprise round. This is pretty much saying that a Partial charge Is a standard action or move action depending on what you want it to be. But only if you have only 1 standard or move action available to you in a round. Such as a suprise round. See, DnD wasn't written in Lawyer speak, and the rules can have many interpretations, this is one of those that is universally agreed upon and RAW legal. You can use a partial charge as part of the suprise round. Edit: I may have misunderstood you, but I was talking about spells that require 1 full round to cast such as summon spells. As far as him coming at me, I'll pull the WizO card outta my sleeve and play it ;).
Ace_of_time 04-12-07, 01:41 PM	Basically a partial charge is one of those exceptions. It is treated as a standard action or a move action and can be used in the suprise round. This is pretty much saying that a Partial charge Is a standard action or move action depending on what you want it to be. But only if you have only 1 standard or move action available to you in a round. Such as a suprise round. See, DnD wasn't written in Lawyer speak, and the rules can have many interpretations, this is one of those that is universally agreed upon and RAW legal. You can use a partial charge as part of the suprise round. Edit: I may have misunderstood you, but I was talking about spells that require 1 full round to cast such as summon spells. As far as him coming at me, I'll pull the WizO card outta my sleeve and play it ;). The OP wanted to know if you could ready a charge on a surprise round. That is what got all this started.
Kuronue 04-13-07, 08:49 AM	I think this is one of those cases where the vision- characters heroically charging in on a surprise round- creates an odd, ambiguious ruling that can be used to other intents. I think it should be pretty clear- unless your readied action would take place in a surprise round or while your movement is hampered, you can't use a partial charge at all, just like you can't decide arbitrarily, "I want to charge but I want to do so with my soulknife, so I'll take a move action to ready the soulknife and then a standard action for a partial charge". Partial charges occur only in really special case, and are not a normal combat action you can ready like that, I think. Also, for Ace: Trolling is coming to a thread and posting inflammatory messages with the intent to cause a fight, much like JustinA with his "functionally illiterate" comment ;)
Ace_of_time 04-13-07, 09:21 PM	Thanks.
JustinA 04-17-07, 03:23 PM	Um, check out his Join date, March of 2007. Check mine. Talk about your irrelevant arguments. To say he's trolling is pretty much a CoC violation, when in fact, he himself was unclear of the ruling and couldn't quite put 2 and 2 together yet. I know it took me a while to figure out just how a 1 round action was different than a full round action, and how to split them up. It becomes trolling when: 1. You say the rules don't say something. 2. Someone quotes the rules saying exactly that. 3. You say the rules don't say that. 4. Someone else quotes the rules saying exactly that. 5. You say the rules don't say that. It happens, deal with it, if you don't like it, dont post. I would humbly suggest that you should follow your own advice.
mvincent 04-17-07, 04:15 PM	It becomes trolling when: 1. You say the rules don't say something. 2. Someone quotes the rules saying exactly that. 3. You say the rules don't say that. 4. Someone else quotes the rules saying exactly that. 5. You say the rules don't say that.To be fair, 'trolling' implies that he was deliberately baiting. In this case the behavior seems does not seem deliberate. However, I do not believe it should be tolerated. Childish behavior is still childish even done by an actual child. He refused to read the rules given to him (several times) in a very clear format (with rules quotes links, etc.), then accused us of not been clear enough. If someone has a better idea for self-policing such behavior, I would like to hear it. "Stop trolling" is at least similar to "Stop this behavior, as it is inconsiderate, annoying, and makes you seem like a troll", which seems like a suitable response.
DaMullet 04-17-07, 06:52 PM	The OP wanted to know if you could ready a charge on a surprise round. That is what got all this started. Actually, the OP wanted to know if you could 5 foot step before taking a readied action. You decided to start some kind of crazy argument about nothing.
Ace_of_time 04-17-07, 11:13 PM	Does anybody allow someone to ready a partial charge? I think by RAW it's not allowed, but it seems like it would be reasonable, assuming you meet the other conditions. Plus I wouldn't allow you to take any regular move action and then ready it (so you couldn't game your way around the straight line restriction). Sorry it was this one, Not the OP. I don't always read every post on here and that is a flaw of my. So I didn't read the post by the other person saying where it is. The only thing I have read before this thread was the entry of charge in the DMG and I have never looked at that one table. Truely sorry. But I never insulted anyone just because they don't see things my way. Didn't mean to make anyone mad.
TheDarkLord 04-20-07, 02:12 AM	Check mine. Talk about your irrelevant arguments. One day, one month, one year, all in all still longer. 8 hours extra could mean the difference between knowing alot, and knowing little. Irrelevant huh? It becomes trolling when: 1. You say the rules don't say something. 2. Someone quotes the rules saying exactly that. 3. You say the rules don't say that. 4. Someone else quotes the rules saying exactly that. 5. You say the rules don't say that. You're definition, not the actual definition. Not to mention, someone already mentioned deliberate attempt. The rules weren't written by lawyers, but by average people. There will be some discrepancy. I would humbly suggest that you should follow your own advice. I wasn't rude. I was just educating those who needed it.