A couple of rule clarifications [Archive] - Wizards Community

A couple of rule clarifications [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rebel581
08-09-07, 04:38 AM There are just some things I'd like to clear up for combat situations. First is can Spring Attack be used during a charge (and in turn, Ride-By Attack with Spirited Charge)?

Then there's cover, total cover, etc. How do those work? Is it a +4 if anything is blocking the way? What if the person is standing behind a tree and there's no change that the person can ever shoot through the tree? And would cover apply when in combat say 3 players are on a straight line. The archer has to fire through the fighter to hit the enemy. Would the enemy gain a +2/+4 to AC because of the fighter's existence there?

And then finally, Invisibility. What can a player do to find someone who's invisible? What checks do they get to make?

Thank you for any help. Sorry if the post sounds rude or too blunt in anyway. It's 4:38 AM where I am right now.
calronmoonflower
08-09-07, 04:57 AM There are just some things I'd like to clear up for combat situations. First is can Spring Attack be used during a charge (and in turn, Ride-By Attack with Spirited Charge)?

No. A change is a full-round action.

Then there's cover, total cover, etc. How do those work? Is it a +4 if anything is blocking the way? What if the person is standing behind a tree and there's no change that the person can ever shoot through the tree? And would cover apply when in combat say 3 players are on a straight line. The archer has to fire through the fighter to hit the enemy. Would the enemy gain a +2/+4 to AC because of the fighter's existence there?

Total cover= cannot be attacked. Lesser cover provides AC and reflex bonuses.

Creatures provide soft cover bonuses. I'm not sure if they stack but the bonus is +4.

And then finally, Invisibility. What can a player do to find someone who's invisible? What checks do they get to make?

Spot and Listen checks can be used to find the square an invisible creature is in.
Zealot
08-09-07, 12:11 PM If you can guess the correct square you can throw a handfull of dirt into the square an invisible creature is in. Unless the invisible creature can tuck it into their clothing any thing new that they pick up remains visible, including any dirt that lands on them. One hand full of dirt might not provide enough to see and strike them without a penalty, but enough of it should be. At the least you should be left with visual signs as to what square they are in from that point on.

Of course if they can cast or activate Invisibility again, the new dirt will go invis with them.
Rebel581
08-09-07, 02:29 PM For Invisibility, what would the DC of the check be if the person didn't move silently?

And Soft Cover provides a +4 bonus to AC? Would this stack with shooting into a melee penalties?
weasel0
08-09-07, 05:52 PM You can locate an invisible opponents' square by beating their move or hide check by 20. Hard, but doable.
Karui_Kage
08-09-07, 06:44 PM And Soft Cover provides a +4 bonus to AC? Would this stack with shooting into a melee penalties?

As far as I know it would. I may be proven wrong though. And probably by Marcus.
weasel0
08-10-07, 12:54 AM They do stack as they are two separate things.

Cover provides an AC bonus to the defender.
Firing into Melee is a -4 to hit penalty.

Yes, a person standing in the way could(and given the size of the one your trying to not hit), would qualify for both.
Marcus Majarra
08-10-07, 11:09 AM There are just some things I'd like to clear up for combat situations. First is can Spring Attack be used during a charge (and in turn, Ride-By Attack with Spirited Charge)?
Spring Attack cannot be used while charging. Spring Attack can only be used when you use the attack standard action. Charging isn't this.

Now, Spirited Charge and Ride-by Attack interact with one another in a completely different way than Spring Attack does with normal attacking. For starters, Ride-by Attack requires that the mounted attacker charge with his mount. Spirited Charge merely increases the damage output of a mounted character while charing. So yes, these two feats work together.

Then there's cover, total cover, etc. How do those work? Is it a +4 if anything is blocking the way? What if the person is standing behind a tree and there's no change that the person can ever shoot through the tree? And would cover apply when in combat say 3 players are on a straight line. The archer has to fire through the fighter to hit the enemy. Would the enemy gain a +2/+4 to AC because of the fighter's existence there?
I suggest you read the entire section on Cover in your PHB. Just keep in mind the following: cover benefits never stack. As with all aspects of D&D, nothing ever stacks unless specifically stated as such.

Here's the Cover section from the SRD:

To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

Low Obstacles and Cover
A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target.

Cover and Attacks of Opportunity
You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with cover relative to you.

Cover and Reflex Saves
Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.

Cover and Hide Checks
You can use cover to make a Hide check. Without cover, you usually need concealment to make a Hide check.

Soft Cover
Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.

Big Creatures and Cover
Any creature with a space larger than 5 feet (1 square) determines cover against melee attacks slightly differently than smaller creatures do. Such a creature can choose any square that it occupies to determine if an opponent has cover against its melee attacks. Similarly, when making a melee attack against such a creature, you can pick any of the squares it occupies to determine if it has cover against you.

Total Cover
If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.

Varying Degrees of Cover
In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks.

And then finally, Invisibility. What can a player do to find someone who's invisible? What checks do they get to make?
These rules are covered in your DMG, in the Special Abilities section. You'll find all the answers you need there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rebel581 08-09-07, 04:38 AM	There are just some things I'd like to clear up for combat situations. First is can Spring Attack be used during a charge (and in turn, Ride-By Attack with Spirited Charge)? Then there's cover, total cover, etc. How do those work? Is it a +4 if anything is blocking the way? What if the person is standing behind a tree and there's no change that the person can ever shoot through the tree? And would cover apply when in combat say 3 players are on a straight line. The archer has to fire through the fighter to hit the enemy. Would the enemy gain a +2/+4 to AC because of the fighter's existence there? And then finally, Invisibility. What can a player do to find someone who's invisible? What checks do they get to make? Thank you for any help. Sorry if the post sounds rude or too blunt in anyway. It's 4:38 AM where I am right now.
calronmoonflower 08-09-07, 04:57 AM	There are just some things I'd like to clear up for combat situations. First is can Spring Attack be used during a charge (and in turn, Ride-By Attack with Spirited Charge)? No. A change is a full-round action. Then there's cover, total cover, etc. How do those work? Is it a +4 if anything is blocking the way? What if the person is standing behind a tree and there's no change that the person can ever shoot through the tree? And would cover apply when in combat say 3 players are on a straight line. The archer has to fire through the fighter to hit the enemy. Would the enemy gain a +2/+4 to AC because of the fighter's existence there? Total cover= cannot be attacked. Lesser cover provides AC and reflex bonuses. Creatures provide soft cover bonuses. I'm not sure if they stack but the bonus is +4. And then finally, Invisibility. What can a player do to find someone who's invisible? What checks do they get to make? Spot and Listen checks can be used to find the square an invisible creature is in.
Zealot 08-09-07, 12:11 PM	If you can guess the correct square you can throw a handfull of dirt into the square an invisible creature is in. Unless the invisible creature can tuck it into their clothing any thing new that they pick up remains visible, including any dirt that lands on them. One hand full of dirt might not provide enough to see and strike them without a penalty, but enough of it should be. At the least you should be left with visual signs as to what square they are in from that point on. Of course if they can cast or activate Invisibility again, the new dirt will go invis with them.
Rebel581 08-09-07, 02:29 PM	For Invisibility, what would the DC of the check be if the person didn't move silently? And Soft Cover provides a +4 bonus to AC? Would this stack with shooting into a melee penalties?
weasel0 08-09-07, 05:52 PM	You can locate an invisible opponents' square by beating their move or hide check by 20. Hard, but doable.
Karui_Kage 08-09-07, 06:44 PM	And Soft Cover provides a +4 bonus to AC? Would this stack with shooting into a melee penalties? As far as I know it would. I may be proven wrong though. And probably by Marcus.
weasel0 08-10-07, 12:54 AM	They do stack as they are two separate things. Cover provides an AC bonus to the defender. Firing into Melee is a -4 to hit penalty. Yes, a person standing in the way could(and given the size of the one your trying to not hit), would qualify for both.
Marcus Majarra 08-10-07, 11:09 AM	There are just some things I'd like to clear up for combat situations. First is can Spring Attack be used during a charge (and in turn, Ride-By Attack with Spirited Charge)? Spring Attack cannot be used while charging. Spring Attack can only be used when you use the attack standard action. Charging isn't this. Now, Spirited Charge and Ride-by Attack interact with one another in a completely different way than Spring Attack does with normal attacking. For starters, Ride-by Attack requires that the mounted attacker charge with his mount. Spirited Charge merely increases the damage output of a mounted character while charing. So yes, these two feats work together. Then there's cover, total cover, etc. How do those work? Is it a +4 if anything is blocking the way? What if the person is standing behind a tree and there's no change that the person can ever shoot through the tree? And would cover apply when in combat say 3 players are on a straight line. The archer has to fire through the fighter to hit the enemy. Would the enemy gain a +2/+4 to AC because of the fighter's existence there? I suggest you read the entire section on Cover in your PHB. Just keep in mind the following: cover benefits never stack. As with all aspects of D&D, nothing ever stacks unless specifically stated as such. Here's the Cover section from the SRD: To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC). When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks. Low Obstacles and Cover A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target. Cover and Attacks of Opportunity You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with cover relative to you. Cover and Reflex Saves Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus. Cover and Hide Checks You can use cover to make a Hide check. Without cover, you usually need concealment to make a Hide check. Soft Cover Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check. Big Creatures and Cover Any creature with a space larger than 5 feet (1 square) determines cover against melee attacks slightly differently than smaller creatures do. Such a creature can choose any square that it occupies to determine if an opponent has cover against its melee attacks. Similarly, when making a melee attack against such a creature, you can pick any of the squares it occupies to determine if it has cover against you. Total Cover If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover. Varying Degrees of Cover In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks. And then finally, Invisibility. What can a player do to find someone who's invisible? What checks do they get to make? These rules are covered in your DMG, in the Special Abilities section. You'll find all the answers you need there.