A metamagic/conjuring question [Archive] - Wizards Community

A metamagic/conjuring question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pheron
12-21-07, 12:01 AM When using the Summon Monster spells, if you untilize a metamagic feat such as Maximized Spell, are the hit dice for the summoned creature rolled as normal or are they subject to the Metamagic feat?
Colmarr
12-21-07, 12:12 AM HD are not maximised.

The creature's HD are determined by its existence on the celestial/fiendish planes, not by the spell.

As such Maximum and Empower aren't useful for summoning spells.
Tedronai
12-21-07, 12:32 AM The CAN be SLIGHTLY useful, depending on what you want to do with the summoned creatures. Maximize and Empower will have their full normal effect on the use of such spells to summon lower level creatures (such as using a Summon Monster 5 to summon 1D4+1 creatures from the Summon Monster 3 list). This tactic can be useful for activating traps if the party lacks a capable PC or NPC trapfinder, thus (hopefully) rendering those traps ineffective against the rest of the party, or at the least notifying the party where those traps are located.
mvincent
12-21-07, 01:34 PM For reference (if desired) from the 3.5 FAQ:
"Do metamagic effects apply to creatures summoned by
summoning spell? For example, does a monster summoned
by a maximized summon monster spell have maximum hit
points?
No. The metamagic effect applies only to the specific rules
of the spell itself -- the spell’s range, its casting time, the
variable number of creatures summoned, and so forth -- not to
the monsters it brings.
For example, an extended summon monster I would double
the duration that the monsters remain, but wouldn’t have any
effect on the durations of the monsters’ special powers."
Some Like It Hot
12-21-07, 06:43 PM How about Invisible Spell? I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe it says something to the effect that the effect of the spell is invisible. The summon spells list a number of "summoned monsters" as the effect. So, does the feat make them invisible?
mvincent
12-21-07, 06:46 PM How about Invisible Spell? I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe it says something to the effect that the effect of the spell is invisible. The summon spells list a number of "summoned monsters" as the effect. So, does the feat make them invisible?Heh. Er... no. (or rather: it could be viewed as open to some interpretation, but given the above information, do you think that any DM would says yes?)

And before it's asked: the Archmage's 'Mastery of Elements' ability cannot be used to summon a [Sonic] elemental, even though the rules say:
"This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor"
and
"When you use a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pheron 12-21-07, 12:01 AM	When using the Summon Monster spells, if you untilize a metamagic feat such as Maximized Spell, are the hit dice for the summoned creature rolled as normal or are they subject to the Metamagic feat?
Colmarr 12-21-07, 12:12 AM	HD are not maximised. The creature's HD are determined by its existence on the celestial/fiendish planes, not by the spell. As such Maximum and Empower aren't useful for summoning spells.
Tedronai 12-21-07, 12:32 AM	The CAN be SLIGHTLY useful, depending on what you want to do with the summoned creatures. Maximize and Empower will have their full normal effect on the use of such spells to summon lower level creatures (such as using a Summon Monster 5 to summon 1D4+1 creatures from the Summon Monster 3 list). This tactic can be useful for activating traps if the party lacks a capable PC or NPC trapfinder, thus (hopefully) rendering those traps ineffective against the rest of the party, or at the least notifying the party where those traps are located.
mvincent 12-21-07, 01:34 PM	For reference (if desired) from the 3.5 FAQ: "Do metamagic effects apply to creatures summoned by summoning spell? For example, does a monster summoned by a maximized summon monster spell have maximum hit points? No. The metamagic effect applies only to the specific rules of the spell itself -- the spell’s range, its casting time, the variable number of creatures summoned, and so forth -- not to the monsters it brings. For example, an extended summon monster I would double the duration that the monsters remain, but wouldn’t have any effect on the durations of the monsters’ special powers."
Some Like It Hot 12-21-07, 06:43 PM	How about Invisible Spell? I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe it says something to the effect that the effect of the spell is invisible. The summon spells list a number of "summoned monsters" as the effect. So, does the feat make them invisible?
mvincent 12-21-07, 06:46 PM	How about Invisible Spell? I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe it says something to the effect that the effect of the spell is invisible. The summon spells list a number of "summoned monsters" as the effect. So, does the feat make them invisible?Heh. Er... no. (or rather: it could be viewed as open to some interpretation, but given the above information, do you think that any DM would says yes?) And before it's asked: the Archmage's 'Mastery of Elements' ability cannot be used to summon a [Sonic] elemental, even though the rules say: "This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor" and "When you use a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type."