a question about a rogue hiding [Archive] - Wizards Community

a question about a rogue hiding [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
khelendros72
08-06-07, 01:18 PM hey guys this is my first time posting i came here looking for question boards and found em so here i go

i have been playing D&D for quite a few years now but im DMing my first campain (been doing it about once a week for 1 1/2 years) most rules questions can be found in the 3.5 PHB but there is allways the few we cant find and ill come to a decision because well im the DM. this happened last week

the party rogue was acting under npc mindcontrol influence
he was placed in a forcecage spell ( the type with bars not the solid walls ) the rogue used his "hide in plain sight" ability ( it comes from his prestige class ) to hide in a tree shadow, and rolled pretty high so the party members fail to see him, but know he cant get out of the cage. so the cleric casts detect magic knowing that the rogue has magic armor on with intentions of casting a hold monster/person so he can then remove the mind controling item.

the question is, is the rogues position given away and can spells be cast upon him

if more info is needed just speak up ill fill it in
weasel0
08-06-07, 01:28 PM If the rogue isn't actually hiding behind something, I'd let the armor light him up like a light bulb. As long as a caster has line of sight/effect, the magic aura should be more than enough to use to track down the rogue... on the second round of focusing of course.
Khazan
08-06-07, 01:35 PM If the rogue isn't actually hiding behind something, I'd let the armor light him up like a light bulb. As long as a caster has line of sight/effect, the magic aura should be more than enough to use to track down the rogue... on the second round of focusing of course.

Agreed.....with one caution: The spell is a 60' cone shaped emanation and will reveal the presence of magical auras in the first round, but, as the spell reads, "magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras".

Forcecage is a 7th level spell, so you will have to determine if the aura of his magical armor/items/weapons are of high enough "level" of enchantment to be seen through the aura of the forcecage spell's aura.

Anyone else? I'm not sure the best way to determine that; maybe ask what is the armor? +2? +3? Any other enchantments on it, like Slippery or Shadow or something that might raise its enchantment aura?

As to the rest of the questions: If the cleric can find the rogue using detect magic, then, yes he could cast Hold Person on him, and the rogue gets his Will save to shrug off the spell. Note that if the cleric's spell takes effect , then the rogue still gets another saving throw attempt to break the enchantment each round.

After that, the cleric or whomever still has to get into the forcecage in order to remove whatever mind-controlling device the hapless rogue has been made to wear. The duration of forcecage is 2 hours; maybe they are better off just waiting ;)
khelendros72
08-06-07, 01:44 PM thanks for the replys my answer at the time was yes you can see the rogue ( which he didnt like) and yes the armor is pretty powerfull ( the players are 14th lvl ) i dont remember the details of it off the top of my head but it would probably be a brighter aura then the force cage. thx for confirming my thoughts.
Marcus Majarra
08-06-07, 06:10 PM Hold person would not be a valid spell to use by virtue of detect magic against a hidden target. The thing is, hold person is a targetted spell. As such, you require line of sight to your intended target. Detect magic, although it will allow you to pin-point the source of the magical aura, will not allow you to see the hidden rogue. As such, you cannot target him with hold person.

What the cleric can do, however, is simply have a light spell cast on the tree casting the shadow. As it is, if the rogue's Hide in Plain Sight ability requires that he be within a shadow, removing the shadow will reveal the rogue.
Kouk
08-06-07, 11:38 PM Hold person would not be a valid spell to use by virtue of detect magic against a hidden target. The thing is, hold person is a targetted spell. As such, you require line of sight to your intended target. Detect magic, although it will allow you to pin-point the source of the magical aura, will not allow you to see the hidden rogue. As such, you cannot target him with hold person.

What the cleric can do, however, is simply have a light spell cast on the tree casting the shadow. As it is, if the rogue's Hide in Plain Sight ability requires that he be within a shadow, removing the shadow will reveal the rogue.

Right.

Detecting Invisible targets with Detect Magic is touched on in the official FAQ.
weasel0
08-06-07, 11:47 PM But he isn't hidden behind something or even invisible for that matter. Simply just that nobody has managed to spot him. It's like a military dude standing by a bush in full camo. Even looking right at him, you may just not identify him there. Now detect magic and up pops the aura of his armor. Kinda like putting a little orange arrow over top the guy. Doesn't really highlight him, but does point to where he's hiding. I would think that would give any check he makes at a -20 like attempting to hide right after attacking does as his position is now compromised.
Marcus Majarra
08-07-07, 12:27 AM Kinda like putting a little orange arrow over top the guy. Doesn't really highlight him, but does point to where he's hiding. I would think that would give any check he makes at a -20 like attempting to hide right after attacking does as his position is now compromised.
Except that, despite the proverbial "orange arrow," you still can't see the hidden rogue. His position isn't at all compromised as far as targeted effects go, since he has a shadow behind which to hide. However, he's still free game for area effects which, luckily, do not care for whether or not you can see the intended target.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
khelendros72 08-06-07, 01:18 PM	hey guys this is my first time posting i came here looking for question boards and found em so here i go i have been playing D&D for quite a few years now but im DMing my first campain (been doing it about once a week for 1 1/2 years) most rules questions can be found in the 3.5 PHB but there is allways the few we cant find and ill come to a decision because well im the DM. this happened last week the party rogue was acting under npc mindcontrol influence he was placed in a forcecage spell ( the type with bars not the solid walls ) the rogue used his "hide in plain sight" ability ( it comes from his prestige class ) to hide in a tree shadow, and rolled pretty high so the party members fail to see him, but know he cant get out of the cage. so the cleric casts detect magic knowing that the rogue has magic armor on with intentions of casting a hold monster/person so he can then remove the mind controling item. the question is, is the rogues position given away and can spells be cast upon him if more info is needed just speak up ill fill it in
weasel0 08-06-07, 01:28 PM	If the rogue isn't actually hiding behind something, I'd let the armor light him up like a light bulb. As long as a caster has line of sight/effect, the magic aura should be more than enough to use to track down the rogue... on the second round of focusing of course.
Khazan 08-06-07, 01:35 PM	If the rogue isn't actually hiding behind something, I'd let the armor light him up like a light bulb. As long as a caster has line of sight/effect, the magic aura should be more than enough to use to track down the rogue... on the second round of focusing of course. Agreed.....with one caution: The spell is a 60' cone shaped emanation and will reveal the presence of magical auras in the first round, but, as the spell reads, "magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras". Forcecage is a 7th level spell, so you will have to determine if the aura of his magical armor/items/weapons are of high enough "level" of enchantment to be seen through the aura of the forcecage spell's aura. Anyone else? I'm not sure the best way to determine that; maybe ask what is the armor? +2? +3? Any other enchantments on it, like Slippery or Shadow or something that might raise its enchantment aura? As to the rest of the questions: If the cleric can find the rogue using detect magic, then, yes he could cast Hold Person on him, and the rogue gets his Will save to shrug off the spell. Note that if the cleric's spell takes effect , then the rogue still gets another saving throw attempt to break the enchantment each round. After that, the cleric or whomever still has to get into the forcecage in order to remove whatever mind-controlling device the hapless rogue has been made to wear. The duration of forcecage is 2 hours; maybe they are better off just waiting ;)
khelendros72 08-06-07, 01:44 PM	thanks for the replys my answer at the time was yes you can see the rogue ( which he didnt like) and yes the armor is pretty powerfull ( the players are 14th lvl ) i dont remember the details of it off the top of my head but it would probably be a brighter aura then the force cage. thx for confirming my thoughts.
Marcus Majarra 08-06-07, 06:10 PM	Hold person would not be a valid spell to use by virtue of detect magic against a hidden target. The thing is, hold person is a targetted spell. As such, you require line of sight to your intended target. Detect magic, although it will allow you to pin-point the source of the magical aura, will not allow you to see the hidden rogue. As such, you cannot target him with hold person. What the cleric can do, however, is simply have a light spell cast on the tree casting the shadow. As it is, if the rogue's Hide in Plain Sight ability requires that he be within a shadow, removing the shadow will reveal the rogue.
Kouk 08-06-07, 11:38 PM	Hold person would not be a valid spell to use by virtue of detect magic against a hidden target. The thing is, hold person is a targetted spell. As such, you require line of sight to your intended target. Detect magic, although it will allow you to pin-point the source of the magical aura, will not allow you to see the hidden rogue. As such, you cannot target him with hold person. What the cleric can do, however, is simply have a light spell cast on the tree casting the shadow. As it is, if the rogue's Hide in Plain Sight ability requires that he be within a shadow, removing the shadow will reveal the rogue. Right. Detecting Invisible targets with Detect Magic is touched on in the official FAQ.
weasel0 08-06-07, 11:47 PM	But he isn't hidden behind something or even invisible for that matter. Simply just that nobody has managed to spot him. It's like a military dude standing by a bush in full camo. Even looking right at him, you may just not identify him there. Now detect magic and up pops the aura of his armor. Kinda like putting a little orange arrow over top the guy. Doesn't really highlight him, but does point to where he's hiding. I would think that would give any check he makes at a -20 like attempting to hide right after attacking does as his position is now compromised.
Marcus Majarra 08-07-07, 12:27 AM	Kinda like putting a little orange arrow over top the guy. Doesn't really highlight him, but does point to where he's hiding. I would think that would give any check he makes at a -20 like attempting to hide right after attacking does as his position is now compromised. Except that, despite the proverbial "orange arrow," you still can't see the hidden rogue. His position isn't at all compromised as far as targeted effects go, since he has a shadow behind which to hide. However, he's still free game for area effects which, luckily, do not care for whether or not you can see the intended target.