A rogue and a hydra walk into a bar... [Archive] - Wizards Community

A rogue and a hydra walk into a bar... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elessar
07-29-07, 08:52 AM OK... so if a rogue is flanking a hydra and makes a sunder attempt against one of its heads (and succeeds), does the hydra take sneak attack damage from the hit? Under normal sunder rules, I know a rogue should never deal sneak attack damage, since he's not hitting something with a discernible anatomy. But when sundering the living head off of something, should the rogue be able to sneak attack?
Sildatorak
07-29-07, 01:30 PM I see no reason why not, assuming the rogue lives through the massive AoO.
Someone
07-29-07, 01:32 PM I'd say no, because as you said, a Sunder isn't the same thing as a normal attack. Now, if the rogue were attacking the body, then they would get sneak attack.

Sneak attack requires the rogue to pick out some vital spot. If you're limiting yourself to just the creature's head/neck area, you can't really pick out an especially "vital" area. Of course, the whole head/neck areas of a hydra are somewhat vital in their own way, as they can be chopped off!
Some_call_me_Tim
07-30-07, 02:09 PM I'm going to say, yes you can. Sunder begins with "You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike..." That says that sunder is a melee attack. Sneak attacks states "[t]he rogue’s attack deals extra damage...when the rogue flanks her target."

So far nothing to deny a rogue the use of sneak attack. The only sticking point comes latter; "A rogue cannot sneak attack while...striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach." Well, technically speaking the head is not a limb.
Phrennzy
07-30-07, 02:55 PM I would give it to him simply because when fighting hydras/hydrae/hydroloxi, you need all the help you can get.

Plus, rogues get hosed by having to fight undead all the time, and missing out on Sneak Attacks.
Tedronai
07-31-07, 12:10 AM Very few creatures have more vulnerable points on their bodies than those in and around their heads and necks.
By the rules, there is nothing to prevent it, and by flavour, the issue could be hotly debated both ways.
One point in favour, and one point tied. Let the Hydra eat that Rogue Blade.
Infernostrider
07-31-07, 07:18 AM i'd let you sneak attack it, but you're gonna have a hard time sneaking past all those heads and i'd impose a humongous DC on it

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elessar 07-29-07, 08:52 AM	OK... so if a rogue is flanking a hydra and makes a sunder attempt against one of its heads (and succeeds), does the hydra take sneak attack damage from the hit? Under normal sunder rules, I know a rogue should never deal sneak attack damage, since he's not hitting something with a discernible anatomy. But when sundering the living head off of something, should the rogue be able to sneak attack?
Sildatorak 07-29-07, 01:30 PM	I see no reason why not, assuming the rogue lives through the massive AoO.
Someone 07-29-07, 01:32 PM	I'd say no, because as you said, a Sunder isn't the same thing as a normal attack. Now, if the rogue were attacking the body, then they would get sneak attack. Sneak attack requires the rogue to pick out some vital spot. If you're limiting yourself to just the creature's head/neck area, you can't really pick out an especially "vital" area. Of course, the whole head/neck areas of a hydra are somewhat vital in their own way, as they can be chopped off!
Some_call_me_Tim 07-30-07, 02:09 PM	I'm going to say, yes you can. Sunder begins with "You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike..." That says that sunder is a melee attack. Sneak attacks states "[t]he rogue’s attack deals extra damage...when the rogue flanks her target." So far nothing to deny a rogue the use of sneak attack. The only sticking point comes latter; "A rogue cannot sneak attack while...striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach." Well, technically speaking the head is not a limb.
Phrennzy 07-30-07, 02:55 PM	I would give it to him simply because when fighting hydras/hydrae/hydroloxi, you need all the help you can get. Plus, rogues get hosed by having to fight undead all the time, and missing out on Sneak Attacks.
Tedronai 07-31-07, 12:10 AM	Very few creatures have more vulnerable points on their bodies than those in and around their heads and necks. By the rules, there is nothing to prevent it, and by flavour, the issue could be hotly debated both ways. One point in favour, and one point tied. Let the Hydra eat that Rogue Blade.
Infernostrider 07-31-07, 07:18 AM	i'd let you sneak attack it, but you're gonna have a hard time sneaking past all those heads and i'd impose a humongous DC on it