Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Martryn 05-21-07, 03:44 PM	Some questions have come up recently in my PnP game, and I've tried to make note of them all to ask here, as you guys have always been good about coming to my rescue in the past. I hope I haven't asked these before, but no promises. 1. Cold iron weapons. To enchant, you must pay an additional 2,000 gp. Is this a one time fee? I'm thinking it must be. As in, if I bought a +1 Cold Iron longsword, and paid for it with the extra 2,000 gold, if I wanted to make it Holy later on down the road, I'd not have to pay the extra 2,000 again later, would I? 2. Grappled foes don't get a Dex bonus to their AC. This means they can be sneak attacked, right? I'd thought that would be mentioned somewhere, but I don't see any references to sneak attack and grapple, so the group isn't sure. Sub-question: If you get multiple attacks a round, could you start a grapple against an adjacent foe AND try to pin them/deal damage/etc the same round, or would the movement into the opponent's space be considered an actual movement action such that you can't? 3. In the Book of the Nine Swords (sorry about wrong sub-forum or whatever), the Legacy Weapons in the back, I don't understand the Legacy Ritual stuff. What is a Lesser Legacy Ability. or a Greater, etc? What abilities do you get from the feats? 4. In the Complete Arcane it doesn't list a starting gold for any of the classes like it does in other supplimental books, or at least not where we could find. 1st level Wu Jen, so we were thinking it'd be the same as a Wizard, but just to be sure... 5. Invisible casters make noise casting spells with verbal components. I know with a high enough spot that someone could potentially pinpoint the square of an invisible creature. but what sort of listen check would it be to locate the square of an invisible caster (greater invisibility) casting spells?
weasel0 05-21-07, 03:55 PM	1) don't have books in front of me but sense I would think once 2) No dex to anyone not in the grapple so a rogue outside of the grapple could SA away merrily. 2b) yes, every grapple check is in place of an attack and the move is part of the grappling itself so it doesn't count as moving. 3)don't have that book 4)don't have that book 5)Well, it's at least a 0 DC check to hear the caster chanting at the spell, so a -1 per 5 feet cause it's hard to hear a distance than see it to figure the exact square(depending on anyother noise varables going on around the listener) seems reasonable to me.
Karui_Kage 05-21-07, 04:24 PM	Some questions have come up recently in my PnP game, and I've tried to make note of them all to ask here, as you guys have always been good about coming to my rescue in the past. I hope I haven't asked these before, but no promises. 1. Cold iron weapons. To enchant, you must pay an additional 2,000 gp. Is this a one time fee? I'm thinking it must be. As in, if I bought a +1 Cold Iron longsword, and paid for it with the extra 2,000 gold, if I wanted to make it Holy later on down the road, I'd not have to pay the extra 2,000 again later, would I? 1Answer. To be honest, I'm not sure. The example is unclear, as they use a +2 longsword, and say it would only be an extra 2,000. However, this could be because it's done all at once, and enchanting it in the future may be another 2,000. It also could be because you only need to do it once, and then it's ready for future enchantments. Personally, I'd lean towards the former. Let it be 'enchantable' for a week or two, then need the 2,000 cost again. 2. Grappled foes don't get a Dex bonus to their AC. This means they can be sneak attacked, right? I'd thought that would be mentioned somewhere, but I don't see any references to sneak attack and grapple, so the group isn't sure. 2A. Yes, a character not involved in the grapple could sneak attack either participant of the grapple. I don't believe there's a miss chance here, but I could be wrong. Sub-question: If you get multiple attacks a round, could you start a grapple against an adjacent foe AND try to pin them/deal damage/etc the same round, or would the movement into the opponent's space be considered an actual movement action such that you can't? 2SubA. The movement into the opponent's space "is free and doesn't count as part of your movement in the round". Performing things like Pins, etc. are fine so long as they are described as "use in place of an attack". In this case, do remember to use the appropriate BAB level for them (IE: The third 'attack' would be a -10 from the primary standard attack). 3. In the Book of the Nine Swords (sorry about wrong sub-forum or whatever), the Legacy Weapons in the back, I don't understand the Legacy Ritual stuff. What is a Lesser Legacy Ability. or a Greater, etc? What abilities do you get from the feats? 3A. These are all concerning feats created in the Weapons of Legacy book. You would need the actual book to understand all the feats, but the basics of it are gotten from wikipedia (as I lack the actual book): "Legacy weapons are unique weapons that have been forged or used by legendary beings, and are themselves unique in regards to gameplay in that their magical abilities start out locked. Unlocking them requires some sort of sacrifice on the part of the wielder, in varying amounts, referred to as least legacy, lesser legacy, and greater legacy, in order from worst to best. The sacrifices required vary with each weapon, but they include some sort of permanent reduction in a player's abilities, i.e. loss of maximum hit points, permanent penalties to certain skills or abilities, etc. These penalties end when the wielder forswears the weapon." 4. In the Complete Arcane it doesn't list a starting gold for any of the classes like it does in other supplimental books, or at least not where we could find. 1st level Wu Jen, so we were thinking it'd be the same as a Wizard, but just to be sure... 4A. Because of the lack of an errata correcting this (I believe), would go with the Bard's gold for a Warlock, 3d4x10 for the Warmage (according to Miniatures Handbook), and Wizard's gold for the Wu Jen. 5. Invisible casters make noise casting spells with verbal components. I know with a high enough spot that someone could potentially pinpoint the square of an invisible creature. but what sort of listen check would it be to locate the square of an invisible caster (greater invisibility) casting spells? 5A. The base DC for someone talking is 0, or 15 if they are whispering. If an invisible person was casting in combat, I'd imagine they would be whispering, but some spells require a pretty vocal command. Add a +1 to the DC for every 10 feet they are away, a +5 if the listener is involved in combat with other creatures (for distraction), and probably a +20 to 'pinpoint' the square. Without that last +20, I'd say give them a direction, but you'd need another +20 (I believe) or so for the actual square they'd be in. Hope that all helps. :)
pres_man 05-21-07, 04:35 PM	1. Cold iron weapons. To enchant, you must pay an additional 2,000 gp. Is this a one time fee? I'm thinking it must be. As in, if I bought a +1 Cold Iron longsword, and paid for it with the extra 2,000 gold, if I wanted to make it Holy later on down the road, I'd not have to pay the extra 2,000 again later, would I? I believe everytime you enhance it, you have to pay the 2000 gp cost. So it makes more sense to boost it up as much as you can at one time. On the other hand it still only is worth (as for using to sell it) as much as if it was all magiced up at once even if it was done in individual steps. As bad as this sounds, I believe if you use the rules in the MIC it is even worse. 2. Grappled foes don't get a Dex bonus to their AC. This means they can be sneak attacked, right? I'd thought that would be mentioned somewhere, but I don't see any references to sneak attack and grapple, so the group isn't sure. You can sneak attack someone when they are denied their dex from your attacks. There is no need to make a special statement about this, it is a natural consequences of grapplying and sneak attacks. Sub-question: If you get multiple attacks a round, could you start a grapple against an adjacent foe AND try to pin them/deal damage/etc the same round, or would the movement into the opponent's space be considered an actual movement action such that you can't? The easiest way to think about grappling is to base it on BAB. How many grappling checks you can make in a round is based on what your BAB is. Got a +6, they you can make two grapple checks (the second could be for a pin), the second at +1 (-5 penalty). I would stay away from thinking of "multiple attacks" because then you have to worry about monks, TWFers, creatures with natural attacks, etc. Stick to BAB and it is a lot easier to deal with. 4. In the Complete Arcane it doesn't list a starting gold for any of the classes like it does in other supplimental books, or at least not where we could find. 1st level Wu Jen, so we were thinking it'd be the same as a Wizard, but just to be sure... Yeah it looks like they overlooked that in most of the first wave of complete books (I think complete adventurer is the first time they started including it). I would just use your best judgement, like Wu Jen uses wizard makes sense. You might look at the example build at the end and just assign that gear for all first level characters, or use it to judge how much to give. 5. Invisible casters make noise casting spells with verbal components. I know with a high enough spot that someone could potentially pinpoint the square of an invisible creature. but what sort of listen check would it be to locate the square of an invisible caster (greater invisibility) casting spells? Listen DC Sound –10 A battle 0 People talking I would say one of these. Probably DC 0. Here is what it says under invisible. A creature can use hearing to find an invisible creature. A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature's Move Silently check result reveals its presence. (A creature with no ranks in Move Silently makes a Move Silently check as a Dexterity check to which an armor check penalty applies.) A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature "over there somewhere." It's practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature's location. Listen Check DCs to Detect Invisible Creatures Invisible Creature Is . . . DC In combat or speaking . . . 0 Moving at up to half speed . . . Move Silently check result Moving at more than half speed . . . Move Silently check result -5 Running or charging . . . Move Silently check result -20 Some distance away . . . +1 per 10 feet Behind an obstacle (door) . . . +5 Behind an obstacle (stone wall) . . . +15 So the DC for a spellcaster would be 0 + 1/10' to know he is present. 1 + 1/10' to know what general direction he is in. And 20 + 1/10' to know exactly what square they are in.
mvincent 05-21-07, 06:54 PM	1. Cold iron weapons. To enchant, you must pay an additional 2,000 gp. Is this a one time fee? From the 3.5 FAQ: "You pay +2,000 gp each time you enhance the item, not for each magical property. When you first create the item, you add +2,000 gp on top of the cost of all other enhancements you add to the weapon, and that 2,000 gp increases only the item’s market price. So your example +1 cold iron frost longsword would have a market price of 10,330 gp (30+300+8,000+2,000). The cost to create the sword would be 6,330 gp (30+300+4,000+2,000) and 320 XP (1/25th of the 8,000 gp cost for the enhancements). The sword would take 8 days to make (the 8,000 gp divided by 1,000). If you later went back and added another +1 enhancement, you’d have to pay the extra 2,000 gp again."
Martryn 05-21-07, 10:07 PM	Ah ha! 1. Ok, that makes sense to me. I wasn't sure if there was some sort of ritual that needed to be performed once that treated cold iron and made it accept enchantments easier, or if cold iron was always resistant to enchantments and every enchantment put into it had to be put in with a little extra umph to get it to stick. The forum looks to be leaning more toward the latter. I guess this is acceptable. 2. Yeah, I thought that was the case with Grapple, so that's how I ruled it. 3. Legacy Weapons... I had forgotten I had seen a book describing those in more detail. I guess now I know where to look for the answer. I thought it was something they overlooked, but I could find any errata on it, and Book of the Nine Swords made no reference to any other source books concerning those, or at least not that I remember, and certainly not in a manner that cleared it up for me. 4. Wizard it is. That'll do. 5. Ok, so for a spellcaster whispering the incantations that's a DC 15 listen check I guess. During battle they'd take perhaps a -5 for being distracted, and another -1 for every ten feet from the actual square that the caster is in (calculated in by the DM to prevent any form of deducing). Then they must succeed by 20+ to pinpoint the location. So a modified result of 40 on a listen check can pinpoint an invisible spellcaster who isn't casting a spell like command or power word and is standing within ten feet. Command or Power Word would make the DC something more along the lines of 25, I guess. Does this "sound" about right. Maybe they can make a DC 10 or 15 concentration check to avoid the distraction penalty of battle, though that might make them susceptible to an attack of opportunity or a loss of DEX bonus to AC if they aren't paying any attention to what's going on around them and they are threatened. Guess I'll not bring that up with the group and hope for the best.
pres_man 05-21-07, 10:57 PM	I would hesitate to allow spellcasters to whisper their spell components. It devalues the silent spell feat.
Karui_Kage 05-22-07, 12:40 AM	That's actually a good point. The DC is high enough already when you consider the 20 needed to pinpoint their location. So go with this method: Base DC 0 +20 if attempting to pinpoint location +1 for every 10 feet away +5 if the player is distracted (in combat with other things) Probably something like that.
Martryn 05-22-07, 10:50 AM	Well, I've always been fond of the description of mumbled spell casting, or casting under the wizard's breath. Maybe above a whisper, but below regular talking volume. I guess in my game I can make the base DC for hearing it 5-10 instead of 15.
pres_man 05-22-07, 06:04 PM	Well, I've always been fond of the description of mumbled spell casting, or casting under the wizard's breath. Maybe above a whisper, but below regular talking volume. I guess in my game I can make the base DC for hearing it 5-10 instead of 15. Personally, I have always liked the idea of the group of adventures in a darkened area when suddenly they hear strange speech in dark languages just before they are blasted. Party: Where to now, anybody have any idea? BBEG: Argpubuiez blpwreiza (strange speech)! Rogue: What the hell was that (spinning around)? *Fireball engulfs the party* BBEG: It was me. :devil:
DreadArchon 05-22-07, 11:29 PM	That you must be able to speak in a strong voice for spellcasting implies that you actually cast spells in a strong voice (although IIRC it doesn't specifically say that). This doesn't necessarily mean that you'd have to yell, but I think whispering is out of the question.