An elemental line spell targeting a solid stone block [Archive] - Wizards Community

An elemental line spell targeting a solid stone block [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gojumamoru
09-10-07, 03:55 PM A player casts a "lighting bolt" but wants to alter the damage type to puch the deepest hole possible into a stone wall. Are there rules for different element types vs objects? What element would be best? How deep could the hole possibly be?
Gemstone
09-10-07, 04:34 PM There are rules for this under "Attacking objects" in the PHB :)
The_Ditto
09-10-07, 04:34 PM A player casts a "lighting bolt" but wants to alter the damage type to puch the deepest hole possible into a stone wall. Are there rules for different element types vs objects? What element would be best? How deep could the hole possibly be?

Probably acid ... he'd need the metamagic feat to alter the elemental type .. can't recall the name ...

But I'm pretty sure acid does the best vs objects ...
(Sonic via the Psionics handbook does best - but normal sonic doesn't bypass hardness ... )
gojumamoru
09-10-07, 05:15 PM Well my question is more about the area the lightning bolt effects. Lets say the bolt does enough damage to destroy the first say 5 feet. Should I reduce the damage as the bolt drills deeper into the stone for each 5 foot section or apply the damage for the whole range of the lightning bolt allowing the player to form a very long tunnel through the object?
Mysteria
09-10-07, 05:45 PM I wouldn't reduce it. Stone has 15 hit points per inch of thickness, so 5ft of stone have 60 hit points. If he can do a lightning bolt that does that kind of damage, after bypassing damage reduction of 8, I think he deserves to get his tunnel. :D Especially as it would take a maximised and energy substituted lightning bolt as a normal one does 10d6 max.
heffroncm
09-12-07, 04:31 PM I wouldn't reduce it. Stone has 15 hit points per inch of thickness, so 5ft of stone have 60 hit points. If he can do a lightning bolt that does that kind of damage, after bypassing damage reduction of 8, I think he deserves to get his tunnel. :D Especially as it would take a maximised and energy substituted lightning bolt as a normal one does 10d6 max.

Um... your math is a little off there... 5ft of stone would have 900HP (15 per inch, 12 inches per foot, 5 feet). So, for every 15 HP, he blasts away an inch. Going to take a lot of lightning bolts.
lint trap
09-12-07, 04:48 PM Each 5 ft. square of stone has a hardness of 8 and 15 hp/inch.

Energy Attacks

Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

So for an average lightning bolt dealing 35 damage, you'd divide it in half for 17, subtract 8 for the hardness, and have 9 points of damage done to the wall (not enough to even break an inch).

If you used the Energy Substitution: Acid feat, you'd deal 35 damage, minus 8 for hardness, for a total of 27 points of damage, or almost two inches of stone destroyed.

So in the end, you're better off with an adamantine two-handed weapon and a fella with Power Attack.
heffroncm
09-12-07, 05:04 PM Each 5 ft. square of stone has a hardness of 8 and 15 hp/inch.

So for an average lightning bolt dealing 35 damage, you'd divide it in half for 17, subtract 8 for the hardness, and have 9 points of damage done to the wall (not enough to even break an inch).

If you used the Energy Substitution: Acid feat, you'd deal 35 damage, minus 8 for hardness, for a total of 27 points of damage, or almost two inches of stone destroyed.

So in the end, you're better off with an adamantine two-handed weapon and a fella with Power Attack.

Acid and Sonic ignore hardness by the quote you just gave. You roll damage and apply it normally. The other energy types specify applying the hardness, Acid and Sonic do not.
lint trap
09-12-07, 05:12 PM Acid and Sonic ignore hardness by the quote you just gave. You roll damage and apply it normally. The other energy types specify applying the hardness, Acid and Sonic do not.

Not quite.

Hardness applies to all types of damage unless specifically stated otherwise by the effect. (Page 165 in the Player’s Handbook is sometimes misinterpreted to suggest that hardness doesn’t apply to acid and sonic damage; in fact, the phrase “apply [damage] normally after a successful hit” simply means that the damage isn’t halved or quartered, as other energy damage is.)
heffroncm
09-12-07, 05:21 PM As I said, the quote you used at the time said to apply damage normally. That there is further errata has little bearing on my point. I'm glad to see that any 3rd level Sorceror with Lesser Acid Orb can't break into an Adamantine bank vault, any more than said power attacking fighter with the adamantine greatsword can.
Sixam
09-13-07, 04:20 AM Sounds like a job for the Warlock.

Although a metamagic feat that allowed damage to bypass DR would be interesting.
The_Ditto
09-13-07, 05:26 PM As I said, the quote you used at the time said to apply damage normally. That there is further errata has little bearing on my point.

*sigh* .. not quite .. and nope, don't even need the FAQ to spell it out ... it's just nice to have the FAQ clarify what the intent of the rules was:

Hardness: Each object has hardness - a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage.

again .. "normally" indicates (quite clearly I may add) .. that you "normally" deduct hardness from ANY damage incoming.

Note the difference between hardness and Damage reduction ... DR (in the DMG) specifically calls out "energy attacks ignore DR" ... Hardness does not .. therefore, energy attacks "normally" are reduced by hardness.

Energy Cone
... Sonic: ... and ignores an object's hardness

There it is specifically called out ...

So yes, Acid and "normal" Sonic are reduced by Hardness ... they are not halved .. but they do not "ignore hardness" ... only (for some odd reason) psionics "sonics" ignore hardness .. (which I might add, I quickly houserule those lines away - applying hardness to sonic attacks ... ::rolleyes: )

Cheers
:tiphat:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gojumamoru 09-10-07, 03:55 PM	A player casts a "lighting bolt" but wants to alter the damage type to puch the deepest hole possible into a stone wall. Are there rules for different element types vs objects? What element would be best? How deep could the hole possibly be?
Gemstone 09-10-07, 04:34 PM	There are rules for this under "Attacking objects" in the PHB :)
The_Ditto 09-10-07, 04:34 PM	A player casts a "lighting bolt" but wants to alter the damage type to puch the deepest hole possible into a stone wall. Are there rules for different element types vs objects? What element would be best? How deep could the hole possibly be? Probably acid ... he'd need the metamagic feat to alter the elemental type .. can't recall the name ... But I'm pretty sure acid does the best vs objects ... (Sonic via the Psionics handbook does best - but normal sonic doesn't bypass hardness ... )
gojumamoru 09-10-07, 05:15 PM	Well my question is more about the area the lightning bolt effects. Lets say the bolt does enough damage to destroy the first say 5 feet. Should I reduce the damage as the bolt drills deeper into the stone for each 5 foot section or apply the damage for the whole range of the lightning bolt allowing the player to form a very long tunnel through the object?
Mysteria 09-10-07, 05:45 PM	I wouldn't reduce it. Stone has 15 hit points per inch of thickness, so 5ft of stone have 60 hit points. If he can do a lightning bolt that does that kind of damage, after bypassing damage reduction of 8, I think he deserves to get his tunnel. :D Especially as it would take a maximised and energy substituted lightning bolt as a normal one does 10d6 max.
heffroncm 09-12-07, 04:31 PM	I wouldn't reduce it. Stone has 15 hit points per inch of thickness, so 5ft of stone have 60 hit points. If he can do a lightning bolt that does that kind of damage, after bypassing damage reduction of 8, I think he deserves to get his tunnel. :D Especially as it would take a maximised and energy substituted lightning bolt as a normal one does 10d6 max. Um... your math is a little off there... 5ft of stone would have 900HP (15 per inch, 12 inches per foot, 5 feet). So, for every 15 HP, he blasts away an inch. Going to take a lot of lightning bolts.
lint trap 09-12-07, 04:48 PM	Each 5 ft. square of stone has a hardness of 8 and 15 hp/inch. Energy Attacks Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness. So for an average lightning bolt dealing 35 damage, you'd divide it in half for 17, subtract 8 for the hardness, and have 9 points of damage done to the wall (not enough to even break an inch). If you used the Energy Substitution: Acid feat, you'd deal 35 damage, minus 8 for hardness, for a total of 27 points of damage, or almost two inches of stone destroyed. So in the end, you're better off with an adamantine two-handed weapon and a fella with Power Attack.
heffroncm 09-12-07, 05:04 PM	Each 5 ft. square of stone has a hardness of 8 and 15 hp/inch. So for an average lightning bolt dealing 35 damage, you'd divide it in half for 17, subtract 8 for the hardness, and have 9 points of damage done to the wall (not enough to even break an inch). If you used the Energy Substitution: Acid feat, you'd deal 35 damage, minus 8 for hardness, for a total of 27 points of damage, or almost two inches of stone destroyed. So in the end, you're better off with an adamantine two-handed weapon and a fella with Power Attack. Acid and Sonic ignore hardness by the quote you just gave. You roll damage and apply it normally. The other energy types specify applying the hardness, Acid and Sonic do not.
lint trap 09-12-07, 05:12 PM	Acid and Sonic ignore hardness by the quote you just gave. You roll damage and apply it normally. The other energy types specify applying the hardness, Acid and Sonic do not. Not quite. Hardness applies to all types of damage unless specifically stated otherwise by the effect. (Page 165 in the Player’s Handbook is sometimes misinterpreted to suggest that hardness doesn’t apply to acid and sonic damage; in fact, the phrase “apply [damage] normally after a successful hit” simply means that the damage isn’t halved or quartered, as other energy damage is.)
heffroncm 09-12-07, 05:21 PM	As I said, the quote you used at the time said to apply damage normally. That there is further errata has little bearing on my point. I'm glad to see that any 3rd level Sorceror with Lesser Acid Orb can't break into an Adamantine bank vault, any more than said power attacking fighter with the adamantine greatsword can.
Sixam 09-13-07, 04:20 AM	Sounds like a job for the Warlock. Although a metamagic feat that allowed damage to bypass DR would be interesting.
The_Ditto 09-13-07, 05:26 PM	As I said, the quote you used at the time said to apply damage normally. That there is further errata has little bearing on my point. sigh .. not quite .. and nope, don't even need the FAQ to spell it out ... it's just nice to have the FAQ clarify what the intent of the rules was: Hardness: Each object has hardness - a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. again .. "normally" indicates (quite clearly I may add) .. that you "normally" deduct hardness from ANY damage incoming. Note the difference between hardness and Damage reduction ... DR (in the DMG) specifically calls out "energy attacks ignore DR" ... Hardness does not .. therefore, energy attacks "normally" are reduced by hardness. Energy Cone ... Sonic: ... and ignores an object's hardness There it is specifically called out ... So yes, Acid and "normal" Sonic are reduced by Hardness ... they are not halved .. but they do not "ignore hardness" ... only (for some odd reason) psionics "sonics" ignore hardness .. (which I might add, I quickly houserule those lines away - applying hardness to sonic attacks ... ::rolleyes: ) Cheers :tiphat: