Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pheron 05-13-07, 12:40 PM	I'd be very interested in hearing the opinion of this group of sages on this spell issue. Character cast Evard Black Tac (EBT) on a spot on the ground just outside of a tent. when the area of effect is drawn it include the enitre area of the tent. The tent in question has a floor. So the tentacles spring up from the dirt/groun outside the tent, but within the tent which is the proper call. 1) the tentacle spring up from the floor of the tent, but not the ground under the floor. 2) the tentacles sprng up from the ground under the floor of the tent, but not the floor. or 3) the tentacles spring up from both the floor and the ground. My call as gamemaster was for number 2, but it lead to quite a debate....
Phrennzy 05-13-07, 02:26 PM	Your DM is right. His game. My game: #1. If the tent was pulled outside the area of effect of the spell, the tentacles would disappear from the tent, and there would be tentacles sprouting from the ground where the tent was.
The_Ditto 05-14-07, 08:34 AM	After reading the spell description .. I'd just rule that they "spring up" from the ground .. and burst through the fabric of the tent floor ... (scarier that way too, hehe) :P
mvincent 05-14-07, 02:03 PM	I'd be very interested in hearing the opinion of this group of sages on this spell issue. Character cast Evard Black Tac (EBT) on a spot on the ground just outside of a tent. when the area of effect is drawn it include the enitre area of the tent. The tent in question has a floor. So the tentacles spring up from the dirt/groun outside the tent, but within the tent which is the proper call. 1) the tentacle spring up from the floor of the tent, but not the ground under the floor. 2) the tentacles sprng up from the ground under the floor of the tent, but not the floor. or 3) the tentacles spring up from both the floor and the ground. My call as gamemaster was for number 2, but it lead to quite a debate....Black tentacles is a "spread" spell. Essentially: 10' long tentacles spring up in a 20'x 20' area (10' radius) and reach out to anything within a 20' radius... so a tentacle could even reach in through the tent's front door (if it was open). Regardless, I personally think your DM's call was the best here (i.e. the most interesting, most intuitive, and what I would have done, assuming the floor was comprised of light blanks that could easily be pushed aside), but #1 would also be a common interpretation.
Xykon 05-14-07, 09:36 PM	How high was the gap between the floor and the ground? if the gap is of sufficient height (i.e. 1 foot or more) then yes the tentacles would be on the floor -- and can potentially burst through the floor (DC 20) since they have a str of 19. Re: DM's call. Assuming that it isn't known whether there is a gap or not, i think he did a good call on the situation. Thats what DM's are for, to adjudicate situations where it is dubious from the rules standpoint.
AtmaWeapon 05-14-07, 09:46 PM	Personally, I would have left it up to the mage casting the spell. The description says they spring up from "the ground, floor, or whatever happens to be underfoot." It seems logical to me that the mage, as the one who selects the area for the spell, would also be allowed to define "the floor". But that's just me. I don't think it was a bad call by any means, but mine would have differed.
pheron 05-14-07, 10:19 PM	I was doing additional reading -- something I should have done before posting -- and came across what looks like the answer, but it plays magical effect a little differently thatn how I had expected. Here's the RAW on the subject. Line of Effect A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight. You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast. A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin). It seems to me that the straight forward reading of this means that the spell effect would not extend into the tent unless there was an opening on the tent. But it also would appear to say that the far side of the tent would create a 'shawdo' where the spell was not in effect either. (Or any other emanation spell effect.) Any agreement on this?
tos_shai_hulud 05-14-07, 11:57 PM	10' long tentacles spring up in a 20'x 20' area (10' radius) and reach out to anything within a 20' radius... The spell indicates a 20' radius. A 20'x 20' area would be a square, not a circle (as the spell indicates). I am not sure what you meant by a 20'x 20' area (10' radius)...
The_Ditto 05-15-07, 08:19 AM	Any agreement on this? Line of effect is only in reference to the point of origin ... a burst, spread or emanation can affect things that you do not have line of effect to ... You only need line of effect to the point of origin of a spell .. :tiphat:
Phrennzy 05-15-07, 10:54 AM	ILine of Effect It seems to me that the straight forward reading of this means that the spell effect would not extend into the tent unless there was an opening on the tent. But it also would appear to say that the far side of the tent would create a 'shawdo' where the spell was not in effect either. (Or any other emanation spell effect.) Any agreement on this? The line of effect is needed to target the center of the spell's area of effect. The spell could be targeted right next to the tent, and the area of effect would spread into the tent's area, since Evard's Black Tentacles is a spread effect, like a fireball.