Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jtsimard 08-19-07, 02:23 PM	Ok. Maybe I'm just missing something, but I'm generating a home base city for a new campaign I'm just beginning to organize, and was using the DMG (pg. 137) to establish ready cash in the community. I'm creating a large city (20,000 adult inhabitants). Based on the formula, this city should have ready cash in the amount of 40 million gp. This would mean, to take from the example in the DMG, that this city of 20,000 people can come up with 2.66 million longswords, or 133 longswords per adult in said city. :confused: Am I missing something? I realize that the issue is highly unlikely to arise, but this hardly seems even remotely logical. I've gone over the math repeatedly, but I am human, after all. Where did I screw up?
Ebonarc 08-19-07, 03:06 PM	Your math is correct. It isn't a math error, just that abstractions don't always work well at extremes. The abstraction of ready cash is one of those abstractions that really breaks down if not taken with a grain (boulder?) of salt.
Sildatorak 08-19-07, 03:11 PM	Honestly, I would ignore the ready cash math and # of items available rules for anything larger than a town. I think the rule just exists to keep players from selling individually cheap loot items in bulk in a hamlet.
Ebonarc 08-19-07, 03:32 PM	Honestly, I would ignore the ready cash math and # of items available rules for anything larger than a town. I think the rule just exists to keep players from selling individually cheap loot items in bulk in a hamlet. Yup. The mechanics for economics, and all D&D mechanics actually, are made to work around a game, not recreate a realistic economy. The GP limits and "ready cash" values are there for when the PCs come to the market. Everything else is an abstraction.
Tyler Do'Urden 08-19-07, 03:53 PM	Based on the formula, this city should have ready cash in the amount of 40 million gp. This would mean, to take from the example in the DMG, that this city of 20,000 people can come up with 2.66 million longswords... Yes, if you get 20,000 grown men and women to blow all their life savings on longswords, then they could make a pile of 2.66 million of them. If you can come up with a reasonable way for that to happen, you win.
Salla 08-19-07, 04:54 PM	Yes, if you get 20,000 grown men and women to blow all their life savings on longswords, then they could make a pile of 2.66 million of them. If you can come up with a reasonable way for that to happen, you win. 8 Bit Theater's Fighter is the mayor. "I like swords. SO DO YOU."
ravenshrike 08-19-07, 09:36 PM	Wouldn't work because Black Mage would just kill anyone who listened to him.
Tyler Do'Urden 08-20-07, 02:36 PM	8 Bit Theater's Fighter is the mayor....a reasonable way. There is nothing reasonable about the phrase "Mayor Fighter."
Someone 08-21-07, 02:36 AM	That's what, 4 kilotons of salt? But that's probably what you would get if you tried to cash out the community- sure, they'll trade for your expensive dodad (or two million swords you hauled in...), but it probably won't be in gold coin.
eamon 08-21-07, 06:23 AM	Ok. Maybe I'm just missing something, but I'm generating a home base city for a new campaign I'm just beginning to organize, and was using the DMG (pg. 137) to establish ready cash in the community. I'm creating a large city (20,000 adult inhabitants). Based on the formula, this city should have ready cash in the amount of 40 million gp. This would mean, to take from the example in the DMG, that this city of 20,000 people can come up with 2.66 million longswords, or 133 longswords per adult in said city. :confused: Am I missing something? I realize that the issue is highly unlikely to arise, but this hardly seems even remotely logical. I've gone over the math repeatedly, but I am human, after all. Where did I screw up? It doesn't sound reasonable to me that commoners have no belongings except for longswords. They may have 40 million gp of wealth - but they have wealth in the form of tools, clothes, houses, foodstuffs, carts, etc... some potions, and some wealthy people will have artwork, jewelry, a few magical items, actual coin, etc... So they don't have 133 longswords a person, they have wealth equivalent to 133 longswords in value per person, and most will have less, and a select few far more.
gixanthrax 08-22-07, 11:34 AM	I always thought of that number as the answer to silence some obnoxious player. Like: P: Why is it impossible to sell my complete loot here. DM: This hamlet is not rich enough to buy all tha stuff at once. And most likely they won't need it. P: Man, they are soo F**** poor, if i wanted to, i could by this whole village... DM: Give me "please insert correct number here" gold and it's yours....:P
eue 08-24-07, 01:05 PM	Yes, if you get 20,000 grown men and women to blow all their life savings on longswords, then they could make a pile of 2.66 million of them. If you can come up with a reasonable way for that to happen, you win. A major cataclysmic battle between the god of longswords (there will be one in my next campaign :rolleyes:) and the god of life ended up with them being fused into the same being so, all the inhabitants of the first settlement to create a pile of 2.66 million of longswords will get eternal life....
Voran 08-24-07, 08:24 PM	If you went by wealth distribution sorta like the USA you'd possibly end up with wacky/sad things like: The richest 1 percent of households owns 38 percent of all wealth. The richest 5 percent owning abou 60 percent of wealth, the richest 20 percent owning about 80 percent of the wealth, The bottom 20 percent basically have zero wealth. They either have no assets, or their debt equals or exceeds their assets. The bottom 20 percent has typically accumulated no savings. These are cut and paste from various studies (pre-2000), but it might give you an idea how to setup wealth in your campaign settings. The rich dudes might be able to outfit everyone in swords, food and beer, but you can bet they sure as HELL won't. :)
Malruhn 08-24-07, 09:37 PM	Also, consider that this is TOTAL wealth. Each citizen (averaged) has wealth enough to have 133 longswords each. Consider that there are wagons, mules, horses, pictures on the walls, dresses for their teenaged daughters, tuition to send Junior to Mighty Wizard University - yeah, I believe it. Then, when you consider Voran's correct numbers, most jokers have enough money to get ONE meal per day... while a couple (the upper nobility and royalty) have money enough to have seventeen red velvet jackets, 112 horses in their stable, a 10,000 gp dowrie for their daughter, an oddly painted picture by some ancient artist named "Monay" (I had to!), yeah, it works out perfectly. Just because they have the average CASH to buy 133 longswords each doesn't mean they DID! Remember, that guy down the street bought 267 SHORT swords, instead!! :rofl::rimshot:
12Shark 08-25-07, 09:25 AM	Somehow, this reminds me of Discworld Dwarf culture.