AoO question [Archive] - Wizards Community

AoO question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LCD2YOU
10-22-07, 03:26 PM PC has gotten into a tussle with a NPC. Neither have Improved Unarmed Combat.

Neither have weapons ready. One swings at other.

Question. Does the second get a swing because the first provoked an AoO?
drizzt420
10-22-07, 04:38 PM According to the SRD I would say yes.

Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.

Attack (melee) No
Attack (ranged) Yes
Attack (unarmed) Yes

I would also say that depending on if the NPC was aware he was going to be hit would be a factor. If he was not, then he would be flat footed and possibly considered surprised - unaware that he was in combat. Then again this is all up to DM preference and could even call for opposed initiative checks or a reflex save to avoid being hit.

We have always had disagreements about this as well in my group.
IllyannaFarseer
10-22-07, 04:55 PM I believe you can only take an AoO when your armed with a melee weapon. Without the Improved Unarmed combat feat I don't think you count as armed, so wouldn't get the AoO.

according to the SRD, you only attack when you threaten squares, and you don't threaten squares if you are unarmed.

So I'd say both are considered unarmed, and thus don't threaten each other, so wouldn't get an AoO.
Cifer
10-22-07, 05:18 PM according to the SRD, you only attack when you threaten squares, and you don't threaten squares if you are unarmed.
Well, you don't threaten squares unarmed if you don't have IUS. Otherwise, this is precisely what it boils down to. You don't get to make any AoOs if you're not threatening the field where the enemy is.
StevenO
10-22-07, 07:24 PM With no weapon (including natural weapons) or improved unarmed strike neither would threaten any area and thus can't take AoO. Not threatening also means they couldn't flank.

Now if one character IS trained with Improved Unarmed Strike vs. someone without that one character would get an AoO to which the other can't respond. This makes entering fist fights with monks a VERY bad idea as they'll often get at least one extra attack for every one an unskilled fighter attempts.
Lokathor
10-24-07, 12:11 AM The unskilled fighter can always wear gauntlets against the monk.
calronmoonflower
10-24-07, 02:08 AM If you are not armed you do not threaten any squares and therefor cannot make an attack of opportunity.

It's spelled out on page 137 of the Player's Handbook page 137 and it states the answer directly as no. There is an exception for armed unarmed attacks, but in this case neither meets the conditions for that.
meabolex
10-24-07, 08:53 AM The unskilled fighter can always wear gauntlets against the monk.

Gauntlets only convert unarmed strike damage from non-lethal to lethal.

Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack.

They don't allow you to threaten an area.

If one character wants to cheese another, armor spikes might be a way to drastically overpower one side in the fight q:
Scribbler
10-24-07, 01:52 PM As has been said:
Unarmed strikes, when untrained, provoke AoOs. However, you can only make AoOs when you threaten the opponent's square, and you need a weapon, natural weapon, or Improved Unarmed Strike to do that.

So you potentially provoke an attack, but the other character can't take it so it doesn't really matter.
ShadowChemosh
10-25-07, 02:28 PM Gauntlets only convert unarmed strike damage from non-lethal to lethal....
True but this is why their is a Spiked Gauntlet which any martial class should have as it has many uses including the fact that you are considered armed with a spiked Gauntlet.

Gauntlet, Spiked
Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of spiked gauntlets. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.
1 ton ghost
10-26-07, 02:22 PM your example, no. just plain ole' fisticuffs, no bells and whistles, not even for grapple

you need a weapon or natural weapon or Improved Unarmed Strike to threaten any squares around you. threaten = possible AoO. simple.
this is why archers get the shaft quick.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LCD2YOU 10-22-07, 03:26 PM	PC has gotten into a tussle with a NPC. Neither have Improved Unarmed Combat. Neither have weapons ready. One swings at other. Question. Does the second get a swing because the first provoked an AoO?
drizzt420 10-22-07, 04:38 PM	According to the SRD I would say yes. Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square. Attack (melee) No Attack (ranged) Yes Attack (unarmed) Yes I would also say that depending on if the NPC was aware he was going to be hit would be a factor. If he was not, then he would be flat footed and possibly considered surprised - unaware that he was in combat. Then again this is all up to DM preference and could even call for opposed initiative checks or a reflex save to avoid being hit. We have always had disagreements about this as well in my group.
IllyannaFarseer 10-22-07, 04:55 PM	I believe you can only take an AoO when your armed with a melee weapon. Without the Improved Unarmed combat feat I don't think you count as armed, so wouldn't get the AoO. according to the SRD, you only attack when you threaten squares, and you don't threaten squares if you are unarmed. So I'd say both are considered unarmed, and thus don't threaten each other, so wouldn't get an AoO.
Cifer 10-22-07, 05:18 PM	according to the SRD, you only attack when you threaten squares, and you don't threaten squares if you are unarmed. Well, you don't threaten squares unarmed if you don't have IUS. Otherwise, this is precisely what it boils down to. You don't get to make any AoOs if you're not threatening the field where the enemy is.
StevenO 10-22-07, 07:24 PM	With no weapon (including natural weapons) or improved unarmed strike neither would threaten any area and thus can't take AoO. Not threatening also means they couldn't flank. Now if one character IS trained with Improved Unarmed Strike vs. someone without that one character would get an AoO to which the other can't respond. This makes entering fist fights with monks a VERY bad idea as they'll often get at least one extra attack for every one an unskilled fighter attempts.
Lokathor 10-24-07, 12:11 AM	The unskilled fighter can always wear gauntlets against the monk.
calronmoonflower 10-24-07, 02:08 AM	If you are not armed you do not threaten any squares and therefor cannot make an attack of opportunity. It's spelled out on page 137 of the Player's Handbook page 137 and it states the answer directly as no. There is an exception for armed unarmed attacks, but in this case neither meets the conditions for that.
meabolex 10-24-07, 08:53 AM	The unskilled fighter can always wear gauntlets against the monk. Gauntlets only convert unarmed strike damage from non-lethal to lethal. Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. They don't allow you to threaten an area. If one character wants to cheese another, armor spikes might be a way to drastically overpower one side in the fight q:
Scribbler 10-24-07, 01:52 PM	As has been said: Unarmed strikes, when untrained, provoke AoOs. However, you can only make AoOs when you threaten the opponent's square, and you need a weapon, natural weapon, or Improved Unarmed Strike to do that. So you potentially provoke an attack, but the other character can't take it so it doesn't really matter.
ShadowChemosh 10-25-07, 02:28 PM	Gauntlets only convert unarmed strike damage from non-lethal to lethal.... True but this is why their is a Spiked Gauntlet which any martial class should have as it has many uses including the fact that you are considered armed with a spiked Gauntlet. Gauntlet, Spiked Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of spiked gauntlets. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.
1 ton ghost 10-26-07, 02:22 PM	your example, no. just plain ole' fisticuffs, no bells and whistles, not even for grapple you need a weapon or natural weapon or Improved Unarmed Strike to threaten any squares around you. threaten = possible AoO. simple. this is why archers get the shaft quick.