Armor enchantments and Bracers of Armor. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor enchantments and Bracers of Armor. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sunic_Flames
02-09-08, 04:40 PM Bracers of Armor essentially fill the role of mundane armor, but without actually having to wear it (and therefore useful for unarmored types and such). You can apply Augment Crystals from the MIC to them as if they were armor. This of course begs the question of can you also enchant them with enhancement bonuses and special properties as if they were armor?
Salla
02-09-08, 05:01 PM According to the (3.0) Arms and Equipment Guide, yes.
Sunic_Flames
02-09-08, 05:25 PM Does a 3.5 source confirm this? I've seen what's basically homebrew (Lords of Hell, or something like that by Witch) that had Fortification bracers somewhere but that's not official.
Merestil Haye
02-09-08, 05:36 PM I've never seen a 3.5 source that confirmed it.

However, anything in 3.0 that was not changed in the 3.5 conversion remains valid for use. There is no real difference between the two items in the two versions.

The 3.5 SRD :Bracers of Armor
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage armor, creator’s caster level must be at least two times that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Price 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), 64,000 gp (+8); Weight 1 lb.And the 3.0 :Bracers of Armor
These items surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he or she were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.
Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, mage armor, creator’s class level must be twice that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Market Price: 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), or 64,000 gp (+8); Weight: 1 lb.There is no substantive difference. So why shouldn't the 3.0 rules still be applicable?

This is an issue of DM's discretion.
Sunic_Flames
02-10-08, 02:16 PM So... does the cost just add on, or does it stack on?

In other words, is a Bracers of Armor +8 with a +5 enhancement bonus 89,000 GP, or 169,000 GP?
Merestil Haye
02-11-08, 06:56 AM You price using the same rule as pricing armour, adding the market price adjustments of the armour powers to the armour bonus the Bracers provide. Your example would be +13 equivalent, and the price would be 169,000gp.

(This is not an Epic item, even though the bonus is +13, because the rules concerned say that this is OK).
FriendoftheDork
02-11-08, 07:57 AM Woah! So instead of having to buy expensive bracers of armor you can buy bracers of armor +2 and just enchant them?

This doesen't seem right to me at all. I'm Seeing Fighters with +5 Bracers of armor +8 here, as that is much better than a full plate (especially with gloves of dex. +6 as well).
Sunic_Flames
02-11-08, 08:59 AM And a +10 (+1, and +9 of special properties) Bracers of Armor +8 would be... 324,000? Is that considered epic?

What happens if you have both bracers and normal armor? Obviously the armor bonus doesn't stack, but what about special properties?

By the way, it's normal for everyone to move away from heavy armor later.
Merestil Haye
02-11-08, 09:55 AM There is a limit on the level of power you can put into bracers; the AEG says no more than a +8 armour bonus and no more than a +13 equivalent market price modifier.

FriendoftheDork, you can't apply an enhancement bonus to the armour bonus from Bracers of Armour, so I don't understand what you are suggesting.
FriendoftheDork
02-11-08, 12:09 PM There is a limit on the level of power you can put into bracers; the AEG says no more than a +8 armour bonus and no more than a +13 equivalent market price modifier.

FriendoftheDork, you can't apply an enhancement bonus to the armour bonus from Bracers of Armour, so I don't understand what you are suggesting.

This is what we've been playing with all along. But the OP said otherwise, and no one contradicted him when he said "can you also enchant them with enhancement bonuses"

And yeah normal Full plate isn't that good at higher levels, but Mithral armors work well (full plate or breastplate). In any case armor should be alot less expensive than bracers of armor.
Sunic_Flames
02-11-08, 02:29 PM Ok, you two just lost me with contradictions. @.@
Merestil Haye
02-11-08, 04:55 PM I did get a little confused over your OP because I didn't note that you were asking if you can add enhancement bonuses to the armour bonus to AC provided by Bracers of Armour. Sorry.

Bracers of Armour are not armour. They provide an armour bonus to AC, but they are not armour. They have no values for ASF, ACP or Max Dex to armour. Consequently, you cannot enhance the armour bonus they provide in the same way you can enhance the armour bonus a real, physical suit of armour provides.

The maximum armour bonus Bracers can provide is a +8 bonus. (Some would argue that the limit is a +10 bonus, but the exact value isn't important here).

Bracers of armour with armour properties (say Fortification) add the market price adjustment of the powers to the armour bonus provided by the Bracers to determine the AC bonus equivalent for price determination purposes. This cannot increase the bonus equivalent above +13.
FriendoftheDork
02-11-08, 06:04 PM Ah, that's what you meant. Well it needed clarification though, as the Original Poster asked both about enchantment bonuses as well as armor properties, and no one pointed out that bracers cannot have armor enhancement bonuses on top of the armor bonus they provide.
Sunic_Flames
02-12-08, 07:54 AM So... you could wear Bracers of Armor +1, and +12 of special properties... then a +1 armor with +9 of special properties... :P
Merestil Haye
02-12-08, 08:22 AM In theory. If you want to waste your resources that way.

This is what you can get from the DMG (excluding fixed price enhancements).

+1 bonus : Light Fortification
+2 bonus : Spell resistance (13)
+3 bonus : Ghost touch
+3 bonus : Invulnerability
+3 bonus : Moderate Fortification
+3 bonus : Spell resistance (15)
+3 bonus : Wild
+4 bonus : Spell resistance (17)
+5 bonus : Heavy Fortification
+5 bonus : Spell resistance (19)

Be honest. How many of these would you bother with?

The MIC might open up other avenues, but unless you're using that book, it's not worth doing. If I'm an armour wearer, I'll wear armour +1 with special properties and increase the enhancement bonus with Magic Vestment spells.
Sunic_Flames
02-12-08, 10:18 AM +1 with special properties armor is basic optimization. If however you want to pile on more worthwhile properties the bracers provide a means for doing so. The SR one is garbage, but heavy fort is nice. And some MIC stuff is nice. Maybe something worthwhile in the DMGII as well.

Remind me, is the cap for armor 100k or 200k? If the latter, there's a means of more straight cost stuff.
Merestil Haye
02-12-08, 12:06 PM The SRD doesn't list separate caps for separate classes of items. So it would be 200k - if you use that limit.

Of the SRD list, I rank Fortification the highest. Wild is important if you're a druid and Ghost Touch if you face a lot of incorporeal undead. I wouldn't touch SR with a bargepole, frankly. If the ability gave me SR of 12 + HD then it might be worth taking (and not worry too much about a +4 or +5 pricetag). But that fixed SR is nothing but a speed bump to most of the powerful enemies.

There are some interesting ones in the MIC, but several of those are fixed price as well.
deathbane
02-12-08, 05:10 PM Woah! So instead of having to buy expensive bracers of armor you can buy bracers of armor +2 and just enchant them?

This doesen't seem right to me at all. I'm Seeing Fighters with +5 Bracers of armor +8 here, as that is much better than a full plate (especially with gloves of dex. +6 as well).

The enchantment bonus on real armor makes the armor harder. The higher level version of bracers of armor makes the force field, which provides an armor bonus, more effective. The effect is not the same.
That forcefield also protects against incorpeal creatures attacks, which is another advantage of bracers of armor, and is added into the cost of the item.
Sunic_Flames
02-13-08, 11:37 AM Ok, so one more question. Can you put armor spikes on bracers of armor?
Marcus Majarra
02-13-08, 05:46 PM No, you cannot put armor spikes on bracers of armor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sunic_Flames 02-09-08, 04:40 PM	Bracers of Armor essentially fill the role of mundane armor, but without actually having to wear it (and therefore useful for unarmored types and such). You can apply Augment Crystals from the MIC to them as if they were armor. This of course begs the question of can you also enchant them with enhancement bonuses and special properties as if they were armor?
Salla 02-09-08, 05:01 PM	According to the (3.0) Arms and Equipment Guide, yes.
Sunic_Flames 02-09-08, 05:25 PM	Does a 3.5 source confirm this? I've seen what's basically homebrew (Lords of Hell, or something like that by Witch) that had Fortification bracers somewhere but that's not official.
Merestil Haye 02-09-08, 05:36 PM	I've never seen a 3.5 source that confirmed it. However, anything in 3.0 that was not changed in the 3.5 conversion remains valid for use. There is no real difference between the two items in the two versions. The 3.5 SRD :Bracers of Armor These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage armor, creator’s caster level must be at least two times that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Price 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), 64,000 gp (+8); Weight 1 lb.And the 3.0 :Bracers of Armor These items surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he or she were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective. Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, mage armor, creator’s class level must be twice that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Market Price: 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), or 64,000 gp (+8); Weight: 1 lb.There is no substantive difference. So why shouldn't the 3.0 rules still be applicable? This is an issue of DM's discretion.
Sunic_Flames 02-10-08, 02:16 PM	So... does the cost just add on, or does it stack on? In other words, is a Bracers of Armor +8 with a +5 enhancement bonus 89,000 GP, or 169,000 GP?
Merestil Haye 02-11-08, 06:56 AM	You price using the same rule as pricing armour, adding the market price adjustments of the armour powers to the armour bonus the Bracers provide. Your example would be +13 equivalent, and the price would be 169,000gp. (This is not an Epic item, even though the bonus is +13, because the rules concerned say that this is OK).
FriendoftheDork 02-11-08, 07:57 AM	Woah! So instead of having to buy expensive bracers of armor you can buy bracers of armor +2 and just enchant them? This doesen't seem right to me at all. I'm Seeing Fighters with +5 Bracers of armor +8 here, as that is much better than a full plate (especially with gloves of dex. +6 as well).
Sunic_Flames 02-11-08, 08:59 AM	And a +10 (+1, and +9 of special properties) Bracers of Armor +8 would be... 324,000? Is that considered epic? What happens if you have both bracers and normal armor? Obviously the armor bonus doesn't stack, but what about special properties? By the way, it's normal for everyone to move away from heavy armor later.
Merestil Haye 02-11-08, 09:55 AM	There is a limit on the level of power you can put into bracers; the AEG says no more than a +8 armour bonus and no more than a +13 equivalent market price modifier. FriendoftheDork, you can't apply an enhancement bonus to the armour bonus from Bracers of Armour, so I don't understand what you are suggesting.
FriendoftheDork 02-11-08, 12:09 PM	There is a limit on the level of power you can put into bracers; the AEG says no more than a +8 armour bonus and no more than a +13 equivalent market price modifier. FriendoftheDork, you can't apply an enhancement bonus to the armour bonus from Bracers of Armour, so I don't understand what you are suggesting. This is what we've been playing with all along. But the OP said otherwise, and no one contradicted him when he said "can you also enchant them with enhancement bonuses" And yeah normal Full plate isn't that good at higher levels, but Mithral armors work well (full plate or breastplate). In any case armor should be alot less expensive than bracers of armor.
Sunic_Flames 02-11-08, 02:29 PM	Ok, you two just lost me with contradictions. @.@
Merestil Haye 02-11-08, 04:55 PM	I did get a little confused over your OP because I didn't note that you were asking if you can add enhancement bonuses to the armour bonus to AC provided by Bracers of Armour. Sorry. Bracers of Armour are not armour. They provide an armour bonus to AC, but they are not armour. They have no values for ASF, ACP or Max Dex to armour. Consequently, you cannot enhance the armour bonus they provide in the same way you can enhance the armour bonus a real, physical suit of armour provides. The maximum armour bonus Bracers can provide is a +8 bonus. (Some would argue that the limit is a +10 bonus, but the exact value isn't important here). Bracers of armour with armour properties (say Fortification) add the market price adjustment of the powers to the armour bonus provided by the Bracers to determine the AC bonus equivalent for price determination purposes. This cannot increase the bonus equivalent above +13.
FriendoftheDork 02-11-08, 06:04 PM	Ah, that's what you meant. Well it needed clarification though, as the Original Poster asked both about enchantment bonuses as well as armor properties, and no one pointed out that bracers cannot have armor enhancement bonuses on top of the armor bonus they provide.
Sunic_Flames 02-12-08, 07:54 AM	So... you could wear Bracers of Armor +1, and +12 of special properties... then a +1 armor with +9 of special properties... :P
Merestil Haye 02-12-08, 08:22 AM	In theory. If you want to waste your resources that way. This is what you can get from the DMG (excluding fixed price enhancements). +1 bonus : Light Fortification +2 bonus : Spell resistance (13) +3 bonus : Ghost touch +3 bonus : Invulnerability +3 bonus : Moderate Fortification +3 bonus : Spell resistance (15) +3 bonus : Wild +4 bonus : Spell resistance (17) +5 bonus : Heavy Fortification +5 bonus : Spell resistance (19) Be honest. How many of these would you bother with? The MIC might open up other avenues, but unless you're using that book, it's not worth doing. If I'm an armour wearer, I'll wear armour +1 with special properties and increase the enhancement bonus with Magic Vestment spells.
Sunic_Flames 02-12-08, 10:18 AM	+1 with special properties armor is basic optimization. If however you want to pile on more worthwhile properties the bracers provide a means for doing so. The SR one is garbage, but heavy fort is nice. And some MIC stuff is nice. Maybe something worthwhile in the DMGII as well. Remind me, is the cap for armor 100k or 200k? If the latter, there's a means of more straight cost stuff.
Merestil Haye 02-12-08, 12:06 PM	The SRD doesn't list separate caps for separate classes of items. So it would be 200k - if you use that limit. Of the SRD list, I rank Fortification the highest. Wild is important if you're a druid and Ghost Touch if you face a lot of incorporeal undead. I wouldn't touch SR with a bargepole, frankly. If the ability gave me SR of 12 + HD then it might be worth taking (and not worry too much about a +4 or +5 pricetag). But that fixed SR is nothing but a speed bump to most of the powerful enemies. There are some interesting ones in the MIC, but several of those are fixed price as well.
deathbane 02-12-08, 05:10 PM	Woah! So instead of having to buy expensive bracers of armor you can buy bracers of armor +2 and just enchant them? This doesen't seem right to me at all. I'm Seeing Fighters with +5 Bracers of armor +8 here, as that is much better than a full plate (especially with gloves of dex. +6 as well). The enchantment bonus on real armor makes the armor harder. The higher level version of bracers of armor makes the force field, which provides an armor bonus, more effective. The effect is not the same. That forcefield also protects against incorpeal creatures attacks, which is another advantage of bracers of armor, and is added into the cost of the item.
Sunic_Flames 02-13-08, 11:37 AM	Ok, so one more question. Can you put armor spikes on bracers of armor?
Marcus Majarra 02-13-08, 05:46 PM	No, you cannot put armor spikes on bracers of armor.