Attitude adjustment against PCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attitude adjustment against PCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Martryn
01-22-08, 09:45 PM Can PCs be affected by things like diplomacy or what have you that influence their attitude? As in, could my players be affected by a Diplomacy check to make them friendly to an enemy bard? Or could a PC Warlock Intimidate another PC character? We're actually playing a Star Wars Sage game currently (I'm typing on my laptop) and an NPC politician is forcing us to be friendly to him even though he's a tool, though this has come up in our Sunday DnD game as well (my Warblade was Intimidated by a PC Warlock during our first meeting).
Marcus Majarra
01-22-08, 10:20 PM No. You cannot adjust the attitude of PCs through skills. You can use Intimidate to demoralize a PC, however, as normal for Intimidate.
Tedronai
01-22-08, 11:01 PM Listen to Marcus; he is not a fool.

Also, he happens to be right.

Neither Diplomacy nor Intimidate (when used to adjust attitudes rather than demoralize) affect PCs.

Bluff functions perfectly well, as does Sense Motive, and Intimidate, when used to demoralize PCs.
Martryn
01-22-08, 11:08 PM Ok, that's what I thought I had seen, but I can't remember where it was I saw it. Anyone know where the official rules for that is in writing so I can present it at the next game?
LeeAlucard
01-22-08, 11:13 PM http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm

Here it is. Says that it affects non-player characters. Since it specifies NPC's, I'd say that it doesn't work on PC's.
PenderGrass
01-23-08, 12:56 AM Ok, that's what I thought I had seen, but I can't remember where it was I saw it. Anyone know where the official rules for that is in writing so I can present it at the next game?
PHB, pages 71-72.

Another note, the Diplomacy skill can be used to win against a PC during negotiations, as well as NPCs being able to use it to plead opposite cases in front of a third party.

:dragon:
*****
Martryn
01-23-08, 07:01 PM Another note, the Diplomacy skill can be used to win against a PC during negotiations, as well as NPCs being able to use it to plead opposite cases in front of a third party.

As in the PCs make an opposed Diplomacy against an NPC to influence a third NPC's reaction?

EDIT: Oh, yeah, like it says word for word in the PHB. But I don't guess there is anywhere that states that diplomacy checks can't be used against PCs to influence their reaction? My party is more along the lines of thinking that unless it specifically says something then it must be ok.
Voran
01-23-08, 07:05 PM This is a toughie of Rping that transcends DnD. Dice roll can never really be used to tell a PC how their own PC feels about something. You can do stuff like "His roll was really high, so I'm going to give the PC some penalties towards other checks" but not "Yeah he rolls high, you're immediately Helpful to him."

Just like you can't tell a PC what emotion he feels unless its a magical effect. You can't go: "You're feeling paralyzing fear" or "You love her" or "You start crying" unless they're being magically manipulated.

Kinda the same way you can't expect a PC to automatically treat an NPC with respect and deference because you set it up so that would be the logical action.

Hence the whole "Yeah my 6th level PC tells the God Emperor of Man to go eff-off."
iserith
01-23-08, 07:29 PM Good players will take things like Diplomacy and Intimidate checks into account if an NPC is focused in those skills. In my campaigns, I will often roll a Diplomacy just to give the PCs an idea of how likeable an NPC is to help them in their decision making. Against a PC, it can be an aid to roleplaying.
Marcus Majarra
01-24-08, 12:46 AM But I don't guess there is anywhere that states that diplomacy checks can't be used against PCs to influence their reaction? My party is more along the lines of thinking that unless it specifically says something then it must be ok.
Nothing in the Jump skill description states I can't use it to counter spells. You have things the other way around: skills tell you what you can do with them. Unless it's stated, it's safer to assume that you can't.
Anathema
01-24-08, 01:14 PM Good players will take things like Diplomacy and Intimidate checks into account if an NPC is focused in those skills. In my campaigns, I will often roll a Diplomacy just to give the PCs an idea of how likeable an NPC is to help them in their decision making. Against a PC, it can be an aid to roleplaying.

An excellent suggestion :ayyyy!:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Martryn 01-22-08, 09:45 PM	Can PCs be affected by things like diplomacy or what have you that influence their attitude? As in, could my players be affected by a Diplomacy check to make them friendly to an enemy bard? Or could a PC Warlock Intimidate another PC character? We're actually playing a Star Wars Sage game currently (I'm typing on my laptop) and an NPC politician is forcing us to be friendly to him even though he's a tool, though this has come up in our Sunday DnD game as well (my Warblade was Intimidated by a PC Warlock during our first meeting).
Marcus Majarra 01-22-08, 10:20 PM	No. You cannot adjust the attitude of PCs through skills. You can use Intimidate to demoralize a PC, however, as normal for Intimidate.
Tedronai 01-22-08, 11:01 PM	Listen to Marcus; he is not a fool. Also, he happens to be right. Neither Diplomacy nor Intimidate (when used to adjust attitudes rather than demoralize) affect PCs. Bluff functions perfectly well, as does Sense Motive, and Intimidate, when used to demoralize PCs.
Martryn 01-22-08, 11:08 PM	Ok, that's what I thought I had seen, but I can't remember where it was I saw it. Anyone know where the official rules for that is in writing so I can present it at the next game?
LeeAlucard 01-22-08, 11:13 PM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm Here it is. Says that it affects non-player characters. Since it specifies NPC's, I'd say that it doesn't work on PC's.
PenderGrass 01-23-08, 12:56 AM	Ok, that's what I thought I had seen, but I can't remember where it was I saw it. Anyone know where the official rules for that is in writing so I can present it at the next game? PHB, pages 71-72. Another note, the Diplomacy skill can be used to win against a PC during negotiations, as well as NPCs being able to use it to plead opposite cases in front of a third party. :dragon: *****
Martryn 01-23-08, 07:01 PM	Another note, the Diplomacy skill can be used to win against a PC during negotiations, as well as NPCs being able to use it to plead opposite cases in front of a third party. As in the PCs make an opposed Diplomacy against an NPC to influence a third NPC's reaction? EDIT: Oh, yeah, like it says word for word in the PHB. But I don't guess there is anywhere that states that diplomacy checks can't be used against PCs to influence their reaction? My party is more along the lines of thinking that unless it specifically says something then it must be ok.
Voran 01-23-08, 07:05 PM	This is a toughie of Rping that transcends DnD. Dice roll can never really be used to tell a PC how their own PC feels about something. You can do stuff like "His roll was really high, so I'm going to give the PC some penalties towards other checks" but not "Yeah he rolls high, you're immediately Helpful to him." Just like you can't tell a PC what emotion he feels unless its a magical effect. You can't go: "You're feeling paralyzing fear" or "You love her" or "You start crying" unless they're being magically manipulated. Kinda the same way you can't expect a PC to automatically treat an NPC with respect and deference because you set it up so that would be the logical action. Hence the whole "Yeah my 6th level PC tells the God Emperor of Man to go eff-off."
iserith 01-23-08, 07:29 PM	Good players will take things like Diplomacy and Intimidate checks into account if an NPC is focused in those skills. In my campaigns, I will often roll a Diplomacy just to give the PCs an idea of how likeable an NPC is to help them in their decision making. Against a PC, it can be an aid to roleplaying.
Marcus Majarra 01-24-08, 12:46 AM	But I don't guess there is anywhere that states that diplomacy checks can't be used against PCs to influence their reaction? My party is more along the lines of thinking that unless it specifically says something then it must be ok. Nothing in the Jump skill description states I can't use it to counter spells. You have things the other way around: skills tell you what you can do with them. Unless it's stated, it's safer to assume that you can't.
Anathema 01-24-08, 01:14 PM	Good players will take things like Diplomacy and Intimidate checks into account if an NPC is focused in those skills. In my campaigns, I will often roll a Diplomacy just to give the PCs an idea of how likeable an NPC is to help them in their decision making. Against a PC, it can be an aid to roleplaying. An excellent suggestion :ayyyy!: