Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Muspelheim 03-17-07, 03:56 PM	I cannot quite find what I'm looking for, so some of you might be able to help me out with this. When a creature gains a template which changes its type it usually gains the augmented subtype. It retains its features (BAB, hd, saves, skill points) but gains the traits of the new type. However, does it retain its old traits in addition to the new ones it gains? Usually, this doesn't matter much, but in certain cases, this could be quite important. Consider a spellwarped plant - it gains the aberration type and the augmented plant subtype. Does it retain plant traits or does it lose them? I cannot seem to find anything really conclusive on this; I'm leaning towards that it doesn't retain the traits, since I cannot find anything that says it does - however, from a common sense point of view, it does seem somewhat strange that an augmented plant loses all the good stuff from the plant type. So, does anyone know something I might have missed regarding this?
calronmoonflower 03-17-07, 07:59 PM	Check page 306 of the Monster Manual. It says "usually" and doesn't define "features", but i would say it would have the original traits and new traits, unless they clash.
Muspelheim 03-18-07, 06:54 PM	Yeah, that's one of the passages I've looked at, but it doesn't really say much about the whole thing, to be honest. At least, it doesn't give any hard rules for it which is what I'm looking for.
Frugal 03-18-07, 07:42 PM	I'm inclined to think that since a template is applied to a base creature that all of the base creatures traits and features carry over unless the template explicitly states otherwise.
Lord Nedd 03-19-07, 12:43 PM	I'm inclined to think that since a template is applied to a base creature that all of the base creatures traits and features carry over unless the template explicitly states otherwise. Augment [Origin: 1375–1425; late ME au(g)menten < AF, MF au(g)menter < LL augmentāre to increase, deriv. of augmentum an increase (aug(ére) to increase (akin to eke) + -mentum -ment) + -ā- thematic vowel + -re inf. ending] Hence the term Augmented implies just an increase of the current form. An augmented creature keeps all the base creature stats and has some stuff added to it that are included in the augmented template. -LN
Marcus Majarra 03-20-07, 04:35 PM	Most templates (or other effects resulting in a change of type) will indicate whether or not special qualities (such as type traits) are retained as a result of changing types. For example, the spellwarped creature template indicates that the creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature. You'll notice, in the shambler's description, that it has the plant traits as a special quality. This means that a spellwarped shambler will still have these traits, despite not being a plant anymore.
Muspelheim 03-21-07, 01:21 PM	Most templates (or other effects resulting in a change of type) will indicate whether or not special qualities (such as type traits) are retained as a result of changing types. For example, the spellwarped creature template indicates that the creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature. You'll notice, in the shambler's description, that it has the plant traits as a special quality. This means that a spellwarped shambler will still have these traits, despite not being a plant anymore. Ah, right! That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot :)
sparkster4242 03-26-07, 09:28 PM	in general, a creature with an augmented subtype retains the features of his original type, but gets the traits of his new type. (MM3, p. 208-209). the features and traits of each type are listed in the MM3's glossary. basically, features are: hit-die size, base attack progression, save progression, and skill points, with traits being everything else. the Spellwarped Creature template, as marcus pointed out, overrides that general rule. i would tend to think that a creature which changes its type would lose its old traits, and gain new ones.