Bardic music and barbarian rage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bardic music and barbarian rage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drag0nUL
08-07-07, 04:12 PM I am planning to make a barbarian/bard character, and I was wondering how barbarian rage affects the ability to use bardic music. The only sentence that might apply to bardic music from the PHB barbarian rage description is 'the barbarian cannot[...]use any abilities that require patience or concentration' san some bardic effects require concentration to mantain, but not to initiate(?).
So, I would be grateful if somebody made this issue clear to me.
Zealot
08-07-07, 04:15 PM Put your perform ranks into, Perform: War Chant.

Chant your battle matra as you destroy your foes.

It'll be up to your DM to decide what ablilities still work while raging. Id say you can defidently inspire your comrads.
Karui_Kage
08-07-07, 04:41 PM From the SRD:

While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration,

Using bardic music relies on the Perform skill, which is Charisma based, but it doesn't say you need to make Perform checks to maintain, so that's out. A few specific bardic songs do require a Perform check to begin, so you couldn't be raging to start them (though you might be able to continue them while raging afterwards). As for concentration, some of the bardic musics do require you to maintain concentration, so raging would halt those (Inspire Competence, for example).
Drag0nUL
08-07-07, 04:48 PM From the SRD:

Using bardic music relies on the Perform skill, which is Charisma based, but it doesn't say you need to make Perform checks to maintain, so that's out. A few specific bardic songs do require a Perform check to begin, so you couldn't be raging to start them (though you might be able to continue them while raging afterwards). As for concentration, some of the bardic musics do require you to maintain concentration, so raging would halt those (Inspire Competence, for example).

So. according to the official ruling I could use any bardic music effect that doesn't require a perform check?
And about those requiring concentration to mantain, can I initiate them, but not mantain? (most tend to last 5 rounds after I stopped singing anyway).
DrMorganes
08-07-07, 04:50 PM You could spend a round to initiate the bardic music effect and then rage, but not the other way 'round.

If I recall correctly, Complete Adventurer has a feat that extends the duration of bardsong effects. You may find that useful.
Karui_Kage
08-07-07, 05:23 PM So. according to the official ruling I could use any bardic music effect that doesn't require a perform check?
And about those requiring concentration to mantain, can I initiate them, but not mantain? (most tend to last 5 rounds after I stopped singing anyway).

Requiring concentration to maintain means just that. You have to concentrate to maintain. So anything that required that could not be used while raging.

Basically, it comes down to a few things.

If it requires a Perform check but no concentration to maintain, you can only use it if you make the Perform check before you rage.

If it requires concentration to maintain, you cannot maintain it while raging. If it lists a time it goes for after concentration is lost, then that is how long the effect would persist for while raging.

If it does not require a perform check or concentration to maintain, then you can use it during a rage with no limitations.
Nom
08-07-07, 08:35 PM Not that it doesn't say "make checks in Cha-based skills", but "use". It would be legitimate to argue that applying your Perform ranks as a pre-req is "using" that skills. Not saying this interpretation is necessarily correct, merely legitimising it.
JulesCARV
08-07-07, 09:12 PM I would rule that a UA Savage Bard could use bardic music uninhibited during rages. :)
Einvaldurinn_mikli
08-07-07, 09:16 PM So, anyone else think that this class combination reeks of Vikings?
runestar
08-07-07, 11:04 PM Here you go.

Q: Dear Sage,
If my bard has the rage ability, can he use bardic music while raging?
--Jonas

(Producer's Note: There's a death metal joke somewhere in this question, I'm sure of it.)
A: You can’t use any ability that requires concentration while raging, nor can you use any Charisma-based skill other than Intimidate (so Perform is out). Thus, only a few of the bardic music abilities are available to a raging bard:

* Countersong: No (Perform check required).
* Fascinate: No (Perform check required).
* Inspire Courage: Yes.
* Inspire Competence: Only lasts 1 round per use (concentration required).
* Suggestion: No, because you can’t use fascinate.
* Inspire Greatness: Yes.
* Song of Freedom: No (requires concentration).
* Inspire Heroics: Yes.
* Mass Suggestion: No, because you can’t use fascinate.
Drag0nUL
08-08-07, 06:34 AM So, anyone else think that this class combination reeks of Vikings?

Actually that was the whole character idea. It is going to be a hobgoblin barbarian/bard/warrior skald(RoF) with a distinct viking flavor.

And thank you runestar for pointing that out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drag0nUL 08-07-07, 04:12 PM	I am planning to make a barbarian/bard character, and I was wondering how barbarian rage affects the ability to use bardic music. The only sentence that might apply to bardic music from the PHB barbarian rage description is 'the barbarian cannot[...]use any abilities that require patience or concentration' san some bardic effects require concentration to mantain, but not to initiate(?). So, I would be grateful if somebody made this issue clear to me.
Zealot 08-07-07, 04:15 PM	Put your perform ranks into, Perform: War Chant. Chant your battle matra as you destroy your foes. It'll be up to your DM to decide what ablilities still work while raging. Id say you can defidently inspire your comrads.
Karui_Kage 08-07-07, 04:41 PM	From the SRD: While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, Using bardic music relies on the Perform skill, which is Charisma based, but it doesn't say you need to make Perform checks to maintain, so that's out. A few specific bardic songs do require a Perform check to begin, so you couldn't be raging to start them (though you might be able to continue them while raging afterwards). As for concentration, some of the bardic musics do require you to maintain concentration, so raging would halt those (Inspire Competence, for example).
Drag0nUL 08-07-07, 04:48 PM	From the SRD: Using bardic music relies on the Perform skill, which is Charisma based, but it doesn't say you need to make Perform checks to maintain, so that's out. A few specific bardic songs do require a Perform check to begin, so you couldn't be raging to start them (though you might be able to continue them while raging afterwards). As for concentration, some of the bardic musics do require you to maintain concentration, so raging would halt those (Inspire Competence, for example). So. according to the official ruling I could use any bardic music effect that doesn't require a perform check? And about those requiring concentration to mantain, can I initiate them, but not mantain? (most tend to last 5 rounds after I stopped singing anyway).
DrMorganes 08-07-07, 04:50 PM	You could spend a round to initiate the bardic music effect and then rage, but not the other way 'round. If I recall correctly, Complete Adventurer has a feat that extends the duration of bardsong effects. You may find that useful.
Karui_Kage 08-07-07, 05:23 PM	So. according to the official ruling I could use any bardic music effect that doesn't require a perform check? And about those requiring concentration to mantain, can I initiate them, but not mantain? (most tend to last 5 rounds after I stopped singing anyway). Requiring concentration to maintain means just that. You have to concentrate to maintain. So anything that required that could not be used while raging. Basically, it comes down to a few things. If it requires a Perform check but no concentration to maintain, you can only use it if you make the Perform check before you rage. If it requires concentration to maintain, you cannot maintain it while raging. If it lists a time it goes for after concentration is lost, then that is how long the effect would persist for while raging. If it does not require a perform check or concentration to maintain, then you can use it during a rage with no limitations.
Nom 08-07-07, 08:35 PM	Not that it doesn't say "make checks in Cha-based skills", but "use". It would be legitimate to argue that applying your Perform ranks as a pre-req is "using" that skills. Not saying this interpretation is necessarily correct, merely legitimising it.
JulesCARV 08-07-07, 09:12 PM	I would rule that a UA Savage Bard could use bardic music uninhibited during rages. :)
Einvaldurinn_mikli 08-07-07, 09:16 PM	So, anyone else think that this class combination reeks of Vikings?
runestar 08-07-07, 11:04 PM	Here you go. Q: Dear Sage, If my bard has the rage ability, can he use bardic music while raging? --Jonas (Producer's Note: There's a death metal joke somewhere in this question, I'm sure of it.) A: You can’t use any ability that requires concentration while raging, nor can you use any Charisma-based skill other than Intimidate (so Perform is out). Thus, only a few of the bardic music abilities are available to a raging bard: * Countersong: No (Perform check required). * Fascinate: No (Perform check required). * Inspire Courage: Yes. * Inspire Competence: Only lasts 1 round per use (concentration required). * Suggestion: No, because you can’t use fascinate. * Inspire Greatness: Yes. * Song of Freedom: No (requires concentration). * Inspire Heroics: Yes. * Mass Suggestion: No, because you can’t use fascinate.
Drag0nUL 08-08-07, 06:34 AM	So, anyone else think that this class combination reeks of Vikings? Actually that was the whole character idea. It is going to be a hobgoblin barbarian/bard/warrior skald(RoF) with a distinct viking flavor. And thank you runestar for pointing that out.