Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Justisaur 01-14-08, 06:22 PM	I'm playing a bard in another DM's game and this keeps coming up. Most of the bardic music says the subject(s) must be able to hear him sing. Just how far is this? If we use listen talking is DC 0, (DC 5 in combat) and your average listener would be able to hear this at 100' (50' in combat). But presumably the bard is trying to be heard. I suggested a perform check to lower the DC, but that means your average newb shouting some awful off-tune crap would be able to be heard at 200' which seems a bit far. Anyone have any suggestions official or otherwise that would put an end to this debate?
Kouk 01-15-08, 01:01 AM	You routinely need it at farther than 100 feet? Since it is presumably louder than people talking, but probably softer than a battle, I would go with -5 to hear the typical Bard song if necessary. The "average person" (roll of 10 on Listen with a 0 modifier) could then hear it at about 150ft -- at least clearly enough to get the benefits. Since it is so dependent on what the listeners roll though, I would say just use judgment as to whether it is audible, or just roll once for the whole party using the best Listen check.
Justisaur 01-15-08, 01:40 PM	Yes, I'm playing in Savage Tide, and it seems like a lot of the battles involve us as a third party comming upon something, or my party has split up a bit. We just had a huge citywide battle, and are expecting another as well. The more townsfolk I can inspire the better. - Justisaur
wrecan 01-15-08, 02:12 PM	Here's how I see it. To be affected, the recipient must "be able to hear the bard sing." It does not state that the noise must be intelligible. The DC to hear someone speak is 0 and to hear battle is -10. The DC is increased by +5 is the listener is distracted, and I think in most cases, unless the bard is performing for an audience, it's safe to say the people are distracted. I'm going to say that the DC to hear a bard singing loudly is 3, +1 per ten feet of distance after the first ten feet. Assuming the average person has a Listen check of +0, and rolls a 10, the bard is likely to be heard out to 80 ft. (minus 50 ft. for each door in between the bard and listener), and potentially heard by people up to 180 ft. + 10/per point of Listen bonus, assuming no barriers. But wait! There's a seldom used spell that would be perfect here: ventriloquism. Ventriloquism lets you throw your voice for a full minute/level anywhere within a 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 level radius of you. Use ventriloquism to send your bard song to a different location on the periphery of the edge of the spell's range every round. The people are affected for five rounds after you move the voice elsewhere, so as long as you return the bard song to that location every five rounds, the bonus is maintained. And it doesn't matter whether the people save against the ventriloquism or not because a save only means they understand you use illusion magic to throw your voice. (This trick will not work with instruments, which are not affected by ventriloquism -- only Perform(oratory) and Perform (sing).) Note that other illusions like ghost sound and minor image will not work because it uses an illusion of your voice. But the ventriloquism spell throws your actual voice.
Justisaur 01-15-08, 06:55 PM	I was just thinking of that, my bard does have the ventriloquism spell. It's real fun because I'm playing a Kenku so I can mimic other peoples voices perfectly, and make it sound like someone is saying something like "we surrender!" ;) I just thought of it's use as a possible way to have the music appear elsewhere. I hadn't thought of moving it around round from round though. My bard does have sing, but mostly concentrates on the mandolin. Unfortunately it's got a close range, so at lv 8 I can only make it appear 55 feet away.
Sildatorak 01-15-08, 08:31 PM	I know there is some book (heroes of battle maybe) that has a bard spell that lets everyone within some ungodly range (at least long range, though it may be more) hear you clearly. If you're doing mass combat regularly that might be worth learning.
wrecan 01-15-08, 09:36 PM	But the 55 feet is the center of the spell, so the bardic effect would extend up to 80 feet from there. Basically, ventriloquism adds 55 feet to the effect of your music.
Justisaur 01-17-08, 12:54 PM	I know there is some book (heroes of battle maybe) that has a bard spell that lets everyone within some ungodly range (at least long range, though it may be more) hear you clearly. If you're doing mass combat regularly that might be worth learning. I just found Amplify in the Spell compendium, 1st level spell, lowers listen DC by 20, so that would add a 200' radius, so I could cover a 600' area, which is pretty impressive. Unfortunately being a bard means I don't know many spells, so I won't be able to switch something else out for it until 11th level, and I really like my 1st levels spells. I can try to get it on scrolls I guess. Looked in Tome of Battle, 2nd lv Bard Spell - Resounding Voice 100' per level. Holy Cow! at 8th level that's a 1800' area!
wrecan 01-17-08, 01:00 PM	Or a wand.
Sildatorak 01-21-08, 11:31 PM	Looked in Tome of Battle, 2nd lv Bard Spell - Resounding Voice 100' per level. Holy Cow! at 8th level that's a 1800' area!That's the one I was thinking of.