Battling for control of undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battling for control of undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheBitterFrost
04-04-07, 04:01 PM Hi Folks,

I’m looking for rules information regarding the control/commanding of undead. Here is my dilemma:

I’m running a party through a dungeon full of evil clerics who can control/command undead (Rappan Athuk). One of my players is running a necromancer who has, no surprise, undead minions.

Here is my question? Can these clerics take control of his undead? The animate dead spell says that created undead remain under the caster’s control “indefinitely.” However, if an evil cleric scores high enough on his rebuke check, he can command undead. Anyone know if there is an official rule for this somewhere?

Unless I find some official rule, my plan is to allow the cleric his rebuke check. If the cleric rolls high enough to command the undead, I’ll have an opposed Charisma check to see who controls them.

Thoughts?
tos_shai_hulud
04-04-07, 04:16 PM From my understanding of turning and rebuking, the last effect is the one that they respond to. It is the same as with any effect. An evil cleric that commands undead controlled through Animate Dead would go to the control of the evil cleric. Since the evil cleric can only command a number of hit dice equal to their cleric level, this may not benefit them much. It would take four clerics to potentially strip a wizard of all his animated dead. Of course, if he was able to animate powerful undead that are twice hit own hit dice, it is probable that an enemy cleric would not be capable of gaining control.

Additionally, the original cleric may bolster undead, effectively increasing their turn resistance to other clerics. Additionally, killing the cleric that commanded a wizard's animated dead would return control of the undead.
Sildatorak
04-04-07, 05:10 PM The animate dead spell says that created undead remain under the caster’s control “indefinitely.”
Indefinitely just means that there is no specific time limit on the control, it doesn't mean that there is anything to stop someone from taking that control away.
Radijs
04-04-07, 05:29 PM What the other two said already, the clerics can rebuke and command the PC's undead the usual way.
TheBitterFrost
04-05-07, 03:42 PM Ok, folks, thanks! Looks like the divine cleric has a bit of the upper hand when going against the arcanist (necromancer).
carcrazy202
04-05-07, 04:11 PM I just had a recent event in one of my games that was very similar.

what would by our rullings on a Wizard using the spell Command Undead on a clerics undead (ED: Unintelegent of course)?
tos_shai_hulud
04-05-07, 04:32 PM I still believe that the most recent effect is the lasting effect. The cleric's command effect is not broken, it is merely overriden by the wizard's command undead effect. When command undead ends, the undead returns to the original cleric's control.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheBitterFrost 04-04-07, 04:01 PM	Hi Folks, I’m looking for rules information regarding the control/commanding of undead. Here is my dilemma: I’m running a party through a dungeon full of evil clerics who can control/command undead (Rappan Athuk). One of my players is running a necromancer who has, no surprise, undead minions. Here is my question? Can these clerics take control of his undead? The animate dead spell says that created undead remain under the caster’s control “indefinitely.” However, if an evil cleric scores high enough on his rebuke check, he can command undead. Anyone know if there is an official rule for this somewhere? Unless I find some official rule, my plan is to allow the cleric his rebuke check. If the cleric rolls high enough to command the undead, I’ll have an opposed Charisma check to see who controls them. Thoughts?
tos_shai_hulud 04-04-07, 04:16 PM	From my understanding of turning and rebuking, the last effect is the one that they respond to. It is the same as with any effect. An evil cleric that commands undead controlled through Animate Dead would go to the control of the evil cleric. Since the evil cleric can only command a number of hit dice equal to their cleric level, this may not benefit them much. It would take four clerics to potentially strip a wizard of all his animated dead. Of course, if he was able to animate powerful undead that are twice hit own hit dice, it is probable that an enemy cleric would not be capable of gaining control. Additionally, the original cleric may bolster undead, effectively increasing their turn resistance to other clerics. Additionally, killing the cleric that commanded a wizard's animated dead would return control of the undead.
Sildatorak 04-04-07, 05:10 PM	The animate dead spell says that created undead remain under the caster’s control “indefinitely.” Indefinitely just means that there is no specific time limit on the control, it doesn't mean that there is anything to stop someone from taking that control away.
Radijs 04-04-07, 05:29 PM	What the other two said already, the clerics can rebuke and command the PC's undead the usual way.
TheBitterFrost 04-05-07, 03:42 PM	Ok, folks, thanks! Looks like the divine cleric has a bit of the upper hand when going against the arcanist (necromancer).
carcrazy202 04-05-07, 04:11 PM	I just had a recent event in one of my games that was very similar. what would by our rullings on a Wizard using the spell Command Undead on a clerics undead (ED: Unintelegent of course)?
tos_shai_hulud 04-05-07, 04:32 PM	I still believe that the most recent effect is the lasting effect. The cleric's command effect is not broken, it is merely overriden by the wizard's command undead effect. When command undead ends, the undead returns to the original cleric's control.