Bear warior question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bear warior question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Holy_boy
04-18-08, 04:52 PM Could a character who has this class(complete warrior) gain extra attacks when in bear form from having a high base attack bonus(not just claw,claw bite but +10/+5 claw ...)?
What about the two weapon fighting feat,does it give extra attacks to the player?
Is there a way to gain extra attacks besides the haste spell with such a build?
tos_shai_hulud
04-18-08, 05:18 PM Yes, the bear can make unarmed strikes, but loses all natural attacks (as a creature can only combine natural attacks with manufactured attacks if the creature description offers that option). One might argue that a character with Improved Unarmed Strike is so adept at striking unarmed that it is natural to use unarmed strike in any form, such that a bear could get its full complement of unarmed strikes (benefitting from a high base attack bonus), and then still have claw, claw, bite, but this would be a house rule that you would have to run by your DM. I would likely require two feats, Improved Unarmed Strike, and a custom feat, perhaps called Shapechanged Unarmed Strike, but that sort of a discussion likely belongs in house rules.
Suspect_Unusual
04-22-08, 06:59 PM Yes, the bear can make unarmed strikes, but loses all natural attacks (as a creature can only combine natural attacks with manufactured attacks if the creature description offers that option).

You wouldn't mind quoting a source, would you?
tos_shai_hulud
04-22-08, 07:55 PM Here is one:

Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks (such as a centaur monk) attack unarmed and still use his natural weapons? For example, let’s say he’s a 4th-level monk. Can he use a flurry of blows and attack at +5/+5/+0 unarmed (plus other bonuses) and then at +0/+0 for 2 hooves?
If the creature normally is allowed to make both weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine, the monk can do the same (making unarmed strikes in place of weapon attacks). Since a centaur can make two hoof attacks in addition to his longsword attack, a centaur monk can make two hoof attacks in addition to his unarmed strike attack (or attacks, depending on his base attack bonus). The monk can’t use his natural weapon attacks as part of a flurry of blows, but he can make natural weapon attacks in addition to his flurry. Such attacks suffer the same –2 penalty as the monk’s flurry attacks in addition to the normal –5 penalty for secondary natural attacks.

Here is another:

If a creature with multiple natural attacks (such as the standard two claws and a bite array) takes levels of monk, how do flurry of blows and its natural attack progression interact?
You can’t use a natural weapon (claw, bite, or whatever) as part of a flurry of blows—only unarmed strikes and special monk weapons may be used in a flurry of blows.
If a creature can use one of its natural weapons as a secondary attack in conjunction with manufactured weapon attacks, it may do the same with that natural weapon in conjunction with a flurry of blows. Any penalty assessed on attacks by the flurry of blows would also apply to the natural weapon attack.
For example, a typical lizardfolk can attack with a club and its bite as part of a full attack. Normally, a creature would take a –5 penalty on an attack roll made with a secondary weapon, but since the lizardfolk has Multiattack, the penalty on the attack roll is reduced to –2 and adds only half the lizardfolk’s Strength bonus on the damage roll.
If it were a 1st-level monk, it could make a flurry of blows (using unarmed strikes, not claw attacks), then add a bite attack as a secondary attack. Each unarmed strike would have a –2 penalty (from flurry of blows), and the bite attack would have a –4 penalty (–2 from flurry of blows and –2 from being a
secondary weapon, reduced from –5 by Multiattack).

And a third:

How would a monk's unarmed damage be modified by natural attacks, or vice versa?
A monk’s natural weapons (claws, bite, and so on) don’t have any effect on the damage dealt by her unarmed strikes, nor does a character’s unarmed strike damage have any effect on her natural weapon attacks. A razorclaw shifter monk could deal either claw damage with a claw attack or unarmed strike damage with an unarmed strike, but couldn’t combine the two.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Holy_boy 04-18-08, 04:52 PM	Could a character who has this class(complete warrior) gain extra attacks when in bear form from having a high base attack bonus(not just claw,claw bite but +10/+5 claw ...)? What about the two weapon fighting feat,does it give extra attacks to the player? Is there a way to gain extra attacks besides the haste spell with such a build?
tos_shai_hulud 04-18-08, 05:18 PM	Yes, the bear can make unarmed strikes, but loses all natural attacks (as a creature can only combine natural attacks with manufactured attacks if the creature description offers that option). One might argue that a character with Improved Unarmed Strike is so adept at striking unarmed that it is natural to use unarmed strike in any form, such that a bear could get its full complement of unarmed strikes (benefitting from a high base attack bonus), and then still have claw, claw, bite, but this would be a house rule that you would have to run by your DM. I would likely require two feats, Improved Unarmed Strike, and a custom feat, perhaps called Shapechanged Unarmed Strike, but that sort of a discussion likely belongs in house rules.
Suspect_Unusual 04-22-08, 06:59 PM	Yes, the bear can make unarmed strikes, but loses all natural attacks (as a creature can only combine natural attacks with manufactured attacks if the creature description offers that option). You wouldn't mind quoting a source, would you?
tos_shai_hulud 04-22-08, 07:55 PM	Here is one: Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks (such as a centaur monk) attack unarmed and still use his natural weapons? For example, let’s say he’s a 4th-level monk. Can he use a flurry of blows and attack at +5/+5/+0 unarmed (plus other bonuses) and then at +0/+0 for 2 hooves? If the creature normally is allowed to make both weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine, the monk can do the same (making unarmed strikes in place of weapon attacks). Since a centaur can make two hoof attacks in addition to his longsword attack, a centaur monk can make two hoof attacks in addition to his unarmed strike attack (or attacks, depending on his base attack bonus). The monk can’t use his natural weapon attacks as part of a flurry of blows, but he can make natural weapon attacks in addition to his flurry. Such attacks suffer the same –2 penalty as the monk’s flurry attacks in addition to the normal –5 penalty for secondary natural attacks. Here is another: If a creature with multiple natural attacks (such as the standard two claws and a bite array) takes levels of monk, how do flurry of blows and its natural attack progression interact? You can’t use a natural weapon (claw, bite, or whatever) as part of a flurry of blows—only unarmed strikes and special monk weapons may be used in a flurry of blows. If a creature can use one of its natural weapons as a secondary attack in conjunction with manufactured weapon attacks, it may do the same with that natural weapon in conjunction with a flurry of blows. Any penalty assessed on attacks by the flurry of blows would also apply to the natural weapon attack. For example, a typical lizardfolk can attack with a club and its bite as part of a full attack. Normally, a creature would take a –5 penalty on an attack roll made with a secondary weapon, but since the lizardfolk has Multiattack, the penalty on the attack roll is reduced to –2 and adds only half the lizardfolk’s Strength bonus on the damage roll. If it were a 1st-level monk, it could make a flurry of blows (using unarmed strikes, not claw attacks), then add a bite attack as a secondary attack. Each unarmed strike would have a –2 penalty (from flurry of blows), and the bite attack would have a –4 penalty (–2 from flurry of blows and –2 from being a secondary weapon, reduced from –5 by Multiattack). And a third: How would a monk's unarmed damage be modified by natural attacks, or vice versa? A monk’s natural weapons (claws, bite, and so on) don’t have any effect on the damage dealt by her unarmed strikes, nor does a character’s unarmed strike damage have any effect on her natural weapon attacks. A razorclaw shifter monk could deal either claw damage with a claw attack or unarmed strike damage with an unarmed strike, but couldn’t combine the two.