Blinding an opponent [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blinding an opponent [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pmurray@bigpond.com
11-27-07, 07:37 PM Are there rules for throwing dust - or a prepared bag of pepper or chilli powder - at an opponent's eyes?

I was thinking, ranged touch with penalties for aiming at a tiny sized target, perhaps a fort save for partial effect - allowing one to scale the attack according to the type of substance. I'd very much prefer to use existing rules, rather than rolling my own.

What else could a rogue use to temporarily deny an opponent their Dex bonus to AC? Is there a "dust of blinding"? There's feint, of course, but it's not really usable in the upcoming context.
PenderGrass
11-27-07, 09:11 PM Are there rules for throwing dust - or a prepared bag of pepper or chilli powder - at an opponent's eyes?
Not in Core.

If you do make this part of the game, I would recommend that you spend some real time making sure it isn't out-of-balance. The penalties for being blind are very harsh in the game and to make it possible to blind your opponents easily will surely spell doom for any game balance you may have had prior to your including such a maneuver.

I would try to see if there are other maneuvers that can be substituted for this attack.

:dragon:
*****
CryoSilver
11-28-07, 12:26 AM A high-level rogue should be able to afford a Ring of Invisiblity, or Cloak of Displacement.

As for mundane blinding... It would have to provoke an AoO and be very short-term in order to be balanced, and allow a fairly low DC to negate. I've seen a guy take a faceful of pepper spray and stay standing; it wasn't pretty, but he toughed it out.
Meles_Meles
11-28-07, 06:31 AM Here's how I'd probably implement it:

Vial of Pepper Concentrate
Fort DC 12
Ranged touch attack, 10'
Blinded for one round, dazzled for 1d4 round
Only effective against creatures with eyes
Provokes AoO

Handful of Pepper
Fort DC 10
Touch attack
Blinded for one round, dazzled for 1d4 round
Only effective against creatures with eyes
Provokes AoO
for one round to be the equivalent of a
Myers
11-28-07, 12:05 PM Perhaps to keep it balanced mabe 2 saves
A reflex save (IE for them to close/cover their eyes as they see you throwing it)

and a fort save to prevent blindness, (if they fail the reflex but succeed fort mabe dazed or dazzled)

As a DM on one hand I like the idea of something that is creative and fun. On the other hand, if it's used every other round, could quickly become game breaking and overpowered rather quickly.
Meles_Meles
11-28-07, 05:17 PM Perhaps to keep it balanced mabe 2 saves
A reflex save (IE for them to close/cover their eyes as they see you throwing it)

Maybe it's just me, but I never use both AC and Reflex saves for a single effect. Either they have the chance to evade via the attacker having to hit their AC, or they have the chance to evade via Reflex save. Giving them two chances is redundant, for me.

As a DM on one hand I like the idea of something that is creative and fun. On the other hand, if it's used every other round, could quickly become game breaking and overpowered rather quickly.

Maybe a nice way to limit their attractiveness is to suggest that carrying something as pungent as the pepper concentrate would increase the ability of scent-driven hunters to track you.

Also, using a handful of pepper is a melee attack provoking AoO (by my suggestions above). I can't imagine any players finding that attractive in any but the most desperate situation (which is what I'd want to see this used in)
Mock26
11-28-07, 07:54 PM I would suggest that you not allow for blinding but instead grant a penalty to any activity that requires sight, such as -4 to hit if the person fails a save or -2 if the make the save. Don't forget to grant a bonus to the save if they have some sort of protection over their face, such as a full helm.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pmurray@bigpond.com 11-27-07, 07:37 PM	Are there rules for throwing dust - or a prepared bag of pepper or chilli powder - at an opponent's eyes? I was thinking, ranged touch with penalties for aiming at a tiny sized target, perhaps a fort save for partial effect - allowing one to scale the attack according to the type of substance. I'd very much prefer to use existing rules, rather than rolling my own. What else could a rogue use to temporarily deny an opponent their Dex bonus to AC? Is there a "dust of blinding"? There's feint, of course, but it's not really usable in the upcoming context.
PenderGrass 11-27-07, 09:11 PM	Are there rules for throwing dust - or a prepared bag of pepper or chilli powder - at an opponent's eyes? Not in Core. If you do make this part of the game, I would recommend that you spend some real time making sure it isn't out-of-balance. The penalties for being blind are very harsh in the game and to make it possible to blind your opponents easily will surely spell doom for any game balance you may have had prior to your including such a maneuver. I would try to see if there are other maneuvers that can be substituted for this attack. :dragon: *****
CryoSilver 11-28-07, 12:26 AM	A high-level rogue should be able to afford a Ring of Invisiblity, or Cloak of Displacement. As for mundane blinding... It would have to provoke an AoO and be very short-term in order to be balanced, and allow a fairly low DC to negate. I've seen a guy take a faceful of pepper spray and stay standing; it wasn't pretty, but he toughed it out.
Meles_Meles 11-28-07, 06:31 AM	Here's how I'd probably implement it: Vial of Pepper Concentrate Fort DC 12 Ranged touch attack, 10' Blinded for one round, dazzled for 1d4 round Only effective against creatures with eyes Provokes AoO Handful of Pepper Fort DC 10 Touch attack Blinded for one round, dazzled for 1d4 round Only effective against creatures with eyes Provokes AoO for one round to be the equivalent of a
Myers 11-28-07, 12:05 PM	Perhaps to keep it balanced mabe 2 saves A reflex save (IE for them to close/cover their eyes as they see you throwing it) and a fort save to prevent blindness, (if they fail the reflex but succeed fort mabe dazed or dazzled) As a DM on one hand I like the idea of something that is creative and fun. On the other hand, if it's used every other round, could quickly become game breaking and overpowered rather quickly.
Meles_Meles 11-28-07, 05:17 PM	Perhaps to keep it balanced mabe 2 saves A reflex save (IE for them to close/cover their eyes as they see you throwing it) Maybe it's just me, but I never use both AC and Reflex saves for a single effect. Either they have the chance to evade via the attacker having to hit their AC, or they have the chance to evade via Reflex save. Giving them two chances is redundant, for me. As a DM on one hand I like the idea of something that is creative and fun. On the other hand, if it's used every other round, could quickly become game breaking and overpowered rather quickly. Maybe a nice way to limit their attractiveness is to suggest that carrying something as pungent as the pepper concentrate would increase the ability of scent-driven hunters to track you. Also, using a handful of pepper is a melee attack provoking AoO (by my suggestions above). I can't imagine any players finding that attractive in any but the most desperate situation (which is what I'd want to see this used in)
Mock26 11-28-07, 07:54 PM	I would suggest that you not allow for blinding but instead grant a penalty to any activity that requires sight, such as -4 to hit if the person fails a save or -2 if the make the save. Don't forget to grant a bonus to the save if they have some sort of protection over their face, such as a full helm.