Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Last_Rogue 05-15-07, 04:25 PM	Blur and Blink both offer a concealment bonus -- if I have both cast on me, do they stack? Are they figured seperately (the evil fighter ovecomes your blink concealment only to be befuddled by your blur)? Hmm . . .thanks for any and all responses.
MareltEkiran 05-15-07, 04:33 PM	I don't know if this is official, but this is how I deal with these things. I divide miss chances into two groups... Visual Concealment and Existantial Concealment. Within one group, they overlap (i.e. the highest miss chance counts). The two groups are resolved seperately. In this case, the blur spell is a Visual Concealment. It provides a miss chance by making it hard to pinpoint the character's exact location. I generally rule that Visual Concealment is beaten by Blindsight, the Blind-Fight feat applies to it and it negates sneak attack attempts. The blink spell is Existential Concealment. It provides a miss chance by not being there an X% of the time... I generally rule that Existantial Concealment is not beaten by Blindsight, Blind-Fight does not apply to it, but if a sneak attack beats the miss chance, it is resolved as a succeeded sneak attack. If both of them apply, you roll two miss chances and if either of them fails, the attack fails.
Nom 05-15-07, 06:20 PM	I'd rule differently. blink mushes a concealment miss chance and a "not there" miss chance into a single 50% miss chance. If either chance doesn't apply (can see invisible, can attack ethereal) then it rules it as a 20% miss chance. Thus, combining another concealment miss chance with blink overlaps with the existing 20% concealment miss chance and has no effect. If you were combining a total concealment miss chance (eg displacement or invisibility) with blink then the cleanest mechanism is to roll a 50% miss chance for concealment plus a 20% miss chance for the "not there" portion of blinking.
mvincent 05-16-07, 05:21 PM	From the 3.0 FAQ: "While it’s true that two or more miss chances from concealment don’t stack (just use the best one), the blink spell does not use concealment. If a blinking character also has concealment (from a displacement spell, blur spell, invisibility, or some other effect or circumstance), both miss chances apply. The miss chances do not stack, you must check each separately. The attack misses if the attacker fails either miss chance. It’s usually best to check the blink miss chance first, since things such as the Blind-Fight feat are not effective against blink."
Nom 05-16-07, 07:42 PM	Except that part of it is concealment, because "if the attacker can see invisible creatures, the miss chance is only 20%". It's better than regular concealment, because when you're not visible you not there either, but it's quite clear (pun not intended) that part of the miss chance is invisibility, and invisibility is the definitive concealment effect.
Marcus Majarra 05-17-07, 02:14 AM	That's a fair conclusion. Here's another one: Attackers that are able to see invisible creatures notice something peculiar in the area where the blinking character is just as it's about to blink in. Therefore, the attacker might be trying to synchronize his attack with what he expects to be the blinking-in of the blinking character. Just because the attacker being able to see invisible creatures reduces the miss chance doesn't necessarily imply that part of the miss chance is invisibility.
Nom 05-17-07, 03:43 AM	But note that see invisibility and true seeing explicitly allows you to see ethereal creatures. A character that can see invisible creatures never loses track of the blinking character, though will notice when they blink in and out and might sometimes attack as they do so (in the same way as the blinker may miss attacks through blinking).
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-17-07, 11:41 PM	From the 3.0 FAQ: The miss chances do not stack, you must check each separately. Note also that Blind Fightp applies to the Blur, but not to the Blink.