Breath weapon and objects [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breath weapon and objects [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ced666
08-27-07, 01:46 PM Hello !

Suppose that a wizzard casts a fireball on a player. The player rolls a 1 on his dice so one of the objects he holds must make a save also to avoid being damaged. Now, what if it is not a spell but a breath weapon (like the fire of a red dragon or the fire of a Hell Hound) ? Do we need to roll a save for an object in case of a 1 ? I would say yes but as it is not technically a spell, we never know...

Another question: the object that is hit is chosen randomly but the first four objects in the table have a bigger chance to get hit. So, how do you roll to find which object has been hit ?

Maybe this sounds a little bit picky, but I just want to know the exact rules, in case I need to discuss with some of my players :D .
Thanks
Some_call_me_Tim
08-27-07, 06:50 PM Now, what if it is not a spell but a breath weapon (like the fire of a red dragon or the fire of a Hell Hound) ? Do we need to roll a save for an object in case of a 1 ? I would say yes but as it is not technically a spell, we never know...I have to say rules-as-written, the answer is no, it doesn't need a saving throw. The rules talk about what happens when you roll a natural one when rolling a saving throw against spells. There is no other mention of it.

Now, the tricky part comes because the table is for items affected by a magical attack. A supernatural attack, such as dragon's breath is technically magical.

In any event this is enough wiggle room for a DM to rule either way and still claim to be "going by the book."

Another question: the object that is hit is chosen randomly but the first four objects in the table have a bigger chance to get hit. So, how do you roll to find which object has been hit ?No, only the first four items that you possess have a chance to be hit. So, simply roll a d4 to find out which of the four is affected.

If you have a shield, armor, magical helm, and a sword; those are the four items you roll to see if they are affected. Your magic cloak (item #5) can't possibly be affected.

Let's say if you're a mage and don't have a shield, armor, or magical helm, but have a wand, a cloak, bracers, and ring. Roll a d4 to find out which of those four is affected.

Maybe this sounds a little bit picky, but I just want to know the exact rules, in case I need to discuss with some of my players :D .It's good to know what the rules say, but often they aren't as unassailable as we would like. This is one of those cases where the DM needs to look at spirit as well as the letter of the law.
VulcanStormwrath
08-27-07, 07:03 PM Can we all just replace RAW with RAIL, Rules As Implimented Logically?

It would solve the grey area and not subject intelligent a DM's to gamestopping rules lawyering by Uber minmaxing munchkin players.

:rant:
calronmoonflower
08-28-07, 02:26 AM Now, the tricky part comes because the table is for items affected by a magical attack. A supernatural attack, such as dragon's breath is technically magical.

In any event this is enough wiggle room for a DM to rule either way and still claim to be "going by the book."

Unless you read the Dungeon Master's Guide errata. The text is the primary source and the table in secondary. Primary sources trump secondary when they conflict.
heffroncm
08-28-07, 11:33 AM Yeah, you only save for item damage on a natural 1 from a spell. You're free to houserule it anyway you like, but by the book is spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ced666 08-27-07, 01:46 PM	Hello ! Suppose that a wizzard casts a fireball on a player. The player rolls a 1 on his dice so one of the objects he holds must make a save also to avoid being damaged. Now, what if it is not a spell but a breath weapon (like the fire of a red dragon or the fire of a Hell Hound) ? Do we need to roll a save for an object in case of a 1 ? I would say yes but as it is not technically a spell, we never know... Another question: the object that is hit is chosen randomly but the first four objects in the table have a bigger chance to get hit. So, how do you roll to find which object has been hit ? Maybe this sounds a little bit picky, but I just want to know the exact rules, in case I need to discuss with some of my players :D . Thanks
Some_call_me_Tim 08-27-07, 06:50 PM	Now, what if it is not a spell but a breath weapon (like the fire of a red dragon or the fire of a Hell Hound) ? Do we need to roll a save for an object in case of a 1 ? I would say yes but as it is not technically a spell, we never know...I have to say rules-as-written, the answer is no, it doesn't need a saving throw. The rules talk about what happens when you roll a natural one when rolling a saving throw against spells. There is no other mention of it. Now, the tricky part comes because the table is for items affected by a magical attack. A supernatural attack, such as dragon's breath is technically magical. In any event this is enough wiggle room for a DM to rule either way and still claim to be "going by the book." Another question: the object that is hit is chosen randomly but the first four objects in the table have a bigger chance to get hit. So, how do you roll to find which object has been hit ?No, only the first four items that you possess have a chance to be hit. So, simply roll a d4 to find out which of the four is affected. If you have a shield, armor, magical helm, and a sword; those are the four items you roll to see if they are affected. Your magic cloak (item #5) can't possibly be affected. Let's say if you're a mage and don't have a shield, armor, or magical helm, but have a wand, a cloak, bracers, and ring. Roll a d4 to find out which of those four is affected. Maybe this sounds a little bit picky, but I just want to know the exact rules, in case I need to discuss with some of my players :D .It's good to know what the rules say, but often they aren't as unassailable as we would like. This is one of those cases where the DM needs to look at spirit as well as the letter of the law.
VulcanStormwrath 08-27-07, 07:03 PM	Can we all just replace RAW with RAIL, Rules As Implimented Logically? It would solve the grey area and not subject intelligent a DM's to gamestopping rules lawyering by Uber minmaxing munchkin players. :rant:
calronmoonflower 08-28-07, 02:26 AM	Now, the tricky part comes because the table is for items affected by a magical attack. A supernatural attack, such as dragon's breath is technically magical. In any event this is enough wiggle room for a DM to rule either way and still claim to be "going by the book." Unless you read the Dungeon Master's Guide errata. The text is the primary source and the table in secondary. Primary sources trump secondary when they conflict.
heffroncm 08-28-07, 11:33 AM	Yeah, you only save for item damage on a natural 1 from a spell. You're free to houserule it anyway you like, but by the book is spells.