Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CharlieRock 03-12-07, 05:11 PM	Recently we had a melee (and some ranged and magic) combat in a crowded marketplace. We trimmed this option out because of too many questions arising: What if you get pushed into a cart? What if you get squished into a wall? Do you fall/take damage? Can you get mashed through a (weak) wall? Do you fall over then? Has anyone developed a hard/fast system for determining these?
primemover003 03-12-07, 05:21 PM	Technically there is no damage caused from the standard bull rush combat option. However I believe I heard that the Book of Nine Swords has a stance or manuever that does damage by running people into solid objects, but I'm not 100% as I don't have the book.
CharlieRock 03-12-07, 05:46 PM	Yeah, but wouldn't you need some sort of Balance check ,maybe, if I Bull-Rush someone 10' through/over a cart of apples.
olshanski_home 03-12-07, 07:49 PM	I typically ruled that if you bull rushed someone and they would be forced into an illegal space (shared with a cart, wall or other person), that the character falls prone in the last legally occupied square. Since bull rush already has an opposed STR check, this is not any more powerful than a trip attack.
CharlieRock 03-12-07, 08:00 PM	I typically ruled that if you bull rushed someone and they would be forced into an illegal space (shared with a cart, wall or other person), that the character falls prone in the last legally occupied square. Since bull rush already has an opposed STR check, this is not any more powerful than a trip attack. Ah, okay. Do you ever have impact damage? Like getting squished into a rock wall?
Krusk 03-12-07, 08:10 PM	You can gain impact damage if you take the fighter variant from dungeonscape. Otherwise, id say no damage, as that makes the variant a little useless.
primemover003 03-12-07, 08:33 PM	Dungeonscape... that's where I heard it! Thanks Krusk. Bull rush in and of itself shouldn't be causing damage without a feat or class ability. If you place obstacles on the battlefield define what hazard they pose beforehand. I'd be careful about the Tripping as being prone is not a fun place to be in combat. Just remember Bull Rushing is meant to move characters, not damage them directly. Pits, spiked walls, fire, water, etc are hazard that you could bull rush someone into, but the bull rush merely gets them there. It doesn't do the damage or cause a problem.
olshanski_home 03-12-07, 11:02 PM	I would never ever have impact damage for a bull rush into a solid object. I find nothing wrong with someone forced into an illegal space to find themselves prone in the last available space. There is precedent for the ruling and it is not overly powerful. There is an amusing feat in the Complete Warrior that allows you to trip two people somoene when you bull rush one person into another. As a house-rule, I also allow any successful bull rush to move a person laterally 5' for every 10' they are pushed back. If you imagine two people fighting on a rope-bridge, there is no way for either to get pushed off, since bull-rush only pushes people in a straight line. My house rule allows for pushing people at an angle a bit, if you get a highly successful bull rush.
CharlieRock 03-13-07, 04:48 AM	You can gain impact damage if you take the fighter variant from dungeonscape. Otherwise, id say no damage, as that makes the variant a little useless. yeah, we were mostly looking at dumping people backwards over apple carts. But, one instance with a halfling and an enlarged gnoll brought up the squish idea. we nixed both as options in-game because we weren't sure (and didn't want to start bad houserules). but next time I want to knock stuff over :evillaugh
CharlieRock 03-13-07, 10:18 PM	One other question: Can one willfully fail their opposed STR check on a Bull-Rush? For example: Ace wins initiative with 20. Bad Guy gets 10. Ace's buddy Charlie (hi, guys :)) scrubs initiative with a 1 (I'm slow :(). Ace knows Bad Guy uses AoEs (like Alchemist Fire-type grenades). Ace wants to push Charlie out of range of (what he believes to be) an incoming AoE. Charlie has no problem with this. Ace Bull-Rushes his buddy to move him. Can Charlie flub his STR check to move farther then 5' ?
Krusk 03-14-07, 02:11 AM	I dont know about technically but i would allow him to take a 1, and then not apply his str modifier in situations like that.
CharlieRock 03-14-07, 02:54 AM	I dont know about technically but i would allow him to take a 1, and then not apply his str modifier in situations like that. Dynamic!
CharlieRock 03-14-07, 08:26 AM	Er, that ruling needed slight amendment: *Doing so costs your movement action for that round (otherwise we are bumping one guy across the map ,and he still gets his own move action) ** If moved further then your own max move rate, you fall prone in the first square past such rate. (similar reason) P.S. This is just for those dramatic 'Look out!" style Bull-Rushes. :)
Sereno 03-14-07, 09:27 AM	I think doing this sort of stuff strays from the RAW and into the realm of cinematic license and would, as DM, adjudicate each attempt as a separate occurrance. A market-place fight is much more exciting with smashed stalls, angry merchants, cheering/booing bystanders. Picture one of the fights in Indiana Jones or Big Trouble in Little China with guys throwing each other through windows and smashing through doors!
CharlieRock 03-14-07, 09:29 AM	A market-place fight is much more exciting with smashed stalls, angry merchants, cheering/booing bystanders. Picture one of the fights in Indiana Jones or Big Trouble in Little China with guys throwing each other through windows and smashing through doors! That was the effect we were going for. Well, winning the fight was also a big concern. P.S. I have no problem leaving RAW for FUN. :D P.P.S. Talk about playing to a Halfling's advantages. Most obstacles she was just running under, whereas others had to climb/jump over. And the things laying around for her to throw ...