Calculating AC & flat-footed with negative dex modifiers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Calculating AC & flat-footed with negative dex modifiers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
coylecn
01-15-08, 05:23 PM On calculating the AC for a PC, what do you do with a negative dexterity modifier? It appears that you just subtract it. So, for example, a 1st level paladin with 8 dex (-1 modifier), with the standard package, is 10 +4 (scale mail) +2 (heavy wooden shield) + (-1) dex modifier and so on. Is the correct AC 15?

This leads to the follow-up. Flat-Footed AC is calculated without the Dex modifier. Is the paladin's Flat-Footed AC 16 since it does not include the (-1) dex modifier? This means that Flat-Footed, the paladin has a higher armor class than during normal combat?

p.s. I'm new (d'uh!).
jbsaff
01-15-08, 05:38 PM IIRC, flat-footed means you are denied your DEX bonus, not that DEX isn't included in the calculation. You don't get more nimble by being suprised, after all. In this case, the flat-footed AC would be the same as his normal AC, 15.
mvincent
01-15-08, 06:23 PM flat-footed means you are denied your DEX bonus, not that DEX isn't included in the calculation.Correct. The rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm#flatFooted) say "You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed", but this does not include Dex penalties.

This is confirmed by the 3.5 FAQ:
"Say my character has a 3 in Dexterity, giving him a
negative modifier to his AC. Now if he is caught flat-footed,
he is denied his Dex modifier to his AC. Does this mean that
his AC is actually better if he is caught flat-footed?
Actually, the definition for flat-footed indicates that you
lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any); it doesn’t remove a
penalty that you normally receive from having a low Dexterity
score"
weasel0
01-17-08, 01:08 AM Agreed.
Remember, if it's helpful, it probably isn't. If it hinders or hurts, it always does.

Any bonus- few stack and are easy to take away. Penalties-always stack and rarely go away.
deathbane
01-18-08, 04:29 PM nevermind, I misunderstood the reply. the above people are correct
eamon
01-18-08, 05:16 PM For more in depth consideration, consider also an inanimate object or unmoving/helpless creature: those have an effective dexterity score of 0, and thus a -5 modifier.

By comparison, a creature, even when flat footed, is harder to hit simply by being mobile. So if it seems a little odd that a creature with dexterity 8 who's aware of his surroundings is harder to hit than a flatfooted creatures with a dexterity of 10 or higher, remember that the real "baseline" here is a modifier of -5.

The range goes from inanimate (-5 modifier) up to average dexterity (+0 modifier) to above-average dexterity (+1 modifier or higher). Having an above average dexterity modifier only helps when you're actually using it to dodge opponents (and must be aware of them).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
coylecn 01-15-08, 05:23 PM	On calculating the AC for a PC, what do you do with a negative dexterity modifier? It appears that you just subtract it. So, for example, a 1st level paladin with 8 dex (-1 modifier), with the standard package, is 10 +4 (scale mail) +2 (heavy wooden shield) + (-1) dex modifier and so on. Is the correct AC 15? This leads to the follow-up. Flat-Footed AC is calculated without the Dex modifier. Is the paladin's Flat-Footed AC 16 since it does not include the (-1) dex modifier? This means that Flat-Footed, the paladin has a higher armor class than during normal combat? p.s. I'm new (d'uh!).
jbsaff 01-15-08, 05:38 PM	IIRC, flat-footed means you are denied your DEX bonus, not that DEX isn't included in the calculation. You don't get more nimble by being suprised, after all. In this case, the flat-footed AC would be the same as his normal AC, 15.
mvincent 01-15-08, 06:23 PM	flat-footed means you are denied your DEX bonus, not that DEX isn't included in the calculation.Correct. The rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm#flatFooted) say "You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed", but this does not include Dex penalties. This is confirmed by the 3.5 FAQ: "Say my character has a 3 in Dexterity, giving him a negative modifier to his AC. Now if he is caught flat-footed, he is denied his Dex modifier to his AC. Does this mean that his AC is actually better if he is caught flat-footed? Actually, the definition for flat-footed indicates that you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any); it doesn’t remove a penalty that you normally receive from having a low Dexterity score"
weasel0 01-17-08, 01:08 AM	Agreed. Remember, if it's helpful, it probably isn't. If it hinders or hurts, it always does. Any bonus- few stack and are easy to take away. Penalties-always stack and rarely go away.
deathbane 01-18-08, 04:29 PM	nevermind, I misunderstood the reply. the above people are correct
eamon 01-18-08, 05:16 PM	For more in depth consideration, consider also an inanimate object or unmoving/helpless creature: those have an effective dexterity score of 0, and thus a -5 modifier. By comparison, a creature, even when flat footed, is harder to hit simply by being mobile. So if it seems a little odd that a creature with dexterity 8 who's aware of his surroundings is harder to hit than a flatfooted creatures with a dexterity of 10 or higher, remember that the real "baseline" here is a modifier of -5. The range goes from inanimate (-5 modifier) up to average dexterity (+0 modifier) to above-average dexterity (+1 modifier or higher). Having an above average dexterity modifier only helps when you're actually using it to dodge opponents (and must be aware of them).