Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karui_Kage 05-21-07, 03:11 PM	This is a relatively quick question that I'm almost certain I have the right in, but wanted to see if I could get some confirmation. :) In the last game I played in, I got in a small argument with another player about the Fighter v Cleric thing. We had been playing in a system that day which favored a fighting class (standard DnD 3.5...kind of. No changes to HP, slight changes to some classes, all armor was now DR, and the Combat Defense feats were available. No magic. Needless to say, it was hard to be successful with anything but a pure fighter), and the player in question began talking about how 'realistic' it was that a fighter owned everything. A fighter in full plate, he justified, could take virtually anything another warrior could throw at it. His platform was that the Fighter was the best class in the game, and since he had fully optimized it and other classes (the one I thought was pretty good was a cleric), he had tried and tested it and nothing could beat it. Now, cleric v fighter aside, I was a bit unsettled by the next 'rule' I heard. I was talking about a few spells the cleric could cast, when he said that he could just use a called shot to chop off a hand, and bam, no more casting capability. Regardless of the fact that you only need one hand to cast, it worries me a bit that he (and the other guy there) were under the impression Called Shot could be used in this manner. I'm new to this group, and was thinking about DMing a campaign eventually, but am a bit worried it may be more trouble than its worth when they're so used to all these variants. Now, I couldn't even find the Called Shot variant in either the PHB or DMG to begin with, so if someone could point that out too, I'd appreciate it. What I'd like to know is, is chopping off limbs even possible? I thought that a called shot to the arm might, say, make a person drop whatever they're holding there. A called shot to the leg could make them fall down/ run slower, etc. Nothing so drastic as limbs falling off. Suggestions? He pretty much flat out told me that nothing I could say could sway him, and nothing he could say would sway me (not necessarily true), but I'd still like to know about the called shot thing, because it's been bothering me. Thanks!
Novabomb 05-21-07, 03:25 PM	You havent found it because it doesnt exist. Honestly this sounds like an unreasonable DM. I would question whether the game will be worth the time. Bad Dnd < 0
Karui_Kage 05-21-07, 03:32 PM	Well, the gametype we were playing was just a test game for the DM in question, a one-shot. The argument was with a player who stopped DMing for the time being, and is just a player. The DM I'm fine with, he seems to understand when something is overbalanced, and when it isn't. For the record, he's looking towards the Game of Thrones book for an example of the gameplay he wants, which should be better all around. And it doesn't exist at all? Maybe it was in 3.0, but I could swear I've seen a Called Shot variant in some corebook at some point, or at least something close...maybe not though. :S
DaidojiTaidoru 05-21-07, 03:33 PM	D&D is based on the idea that "Hit Points" determine the amount of damage you can suffer. Called Shots and "realistic" Critical Hit Tables usually bypass hit points. Thus base D&D does not have "realistic" Crit Tables or Called Shots. (Note: Using Called Shot rules like that wizards/sorcerers are the best class in the game. True Strike anyone? Mix with Rogue in order to lethally snipe with impunity.)
weasel0 05-21-07, 03:37 PM	There's a varient in Unearthed Arcaca that allows for called shots, however DND as is, really isn't set up to allow for called shots in a balanced manner. The basics is a -2 to hit for say a limb and an additional -2 for ever step more precise up to say a -8 for an eye or something of that nature.
Karui_Kage 05-21-07, 03:43 PM	Alright, thanks for the replies all. I didn't think that could be right, and I imagine he was just mixing their multitude of house rules with standard DnD...again. :)
Marcus Majarra 05-21-07, 11:04 PM	There's a varient in Unearthed Arcaca that allows for called shots, however DND as is, really isn't set up to allow for called shots in a balanced manner. The basics is a -2 to hit for say a limb and an additional -2 for ever step more precise up to say a -8 for an eye or something of that nature. I believe this is incorrect. Unearthed Arcana offers no called shot rules (despite offering quite a number of alternative combat systems). Regardless, called shots don't make sense by definition. Every lethal attack you make is a called shot, since you're actively trying to kill your opponent.
Murrdox 05-22-07, 12:59 AM	There's no called shots in D&D 3.0 or 3.5. He's talking out of his rear-end if he tells you differently. There's some house rules that you can make up to deal with it, but in most situations, you're not going to want to do it.
weasel0 05-22-07, 01:07 AM	hmmmmm, then were the frick did i see that rule set...... *mumble incoherencies!!* ....a mongoose splat maybe?
Kouk 05-22-07, 05:25 AM	There is core information I *think* that deals with damage to specific body parts and how it can affect skill checks and such. It wasn't an in-combat thing though. It could be I read it in an article I guess.
Karui_Kage 05-22-07, 03:22 PM	Thanks for the help everyone. I think my biggest issue with this is that he thought he could use a 'called shot' to chop a hand off, thereby 'robbing' the cleric of his casting capabilities. Now that I think on it, it makes more and more sense for this to have never been a rule, just because of what's already included. "Disarm" is a called shot to the weapon hand(s), "Trip" is a called shot to the legs, and the Vorpal weapon ability handles 'called shots' (more like crits though) to the head/neck.
tiercel 05-22-07, 07:39 PM	1) There are basically no called shots in 3/3.5 D&D. 2) You can still use a variant of this strategy against clerics, but it's called "Sunder" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#sunder) specifically, the cleric's Divine Focus. Many, but hardly all, of a cleric's spells have a DF component. Successfully destroying the cleric's divine focus will keep him from casting those spells until he gets another (whether that means going back to a church or just digging a spare out of his backpack). As a variant, you might be able to take a disarm action to grab it away (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grabbingItems), depending on well secured you rule the divine focus necklace or whatever is.
Kouk 05-22-07, 09:33 PM	take a disarm action to grab it away (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grabbingItems), depending on well secured you rule the divine focus necklace or whatever is. Remember kids: Always keep your Divine Focus well secured around your neck, under your armor, and a spare in your spell component pouch (and one on your shield, and one on your breastplate, and one on your gauntlets, and another in your backpack just in case).
Marcus Majarra 05-22-07, 09:36 PM	Remember kids: Always keep your Divine Focus well secured around your neck, under your armor, and a spare in your spell component pouch (and one on your shield, and one on your breastplate, and one on your gauntlets, and another in your backpack just in case). Or you could worship the Sovereign Host, take the World Focus feat, and have the very world you live in act as a divine focus.
Karui_Kage 05-22-07, 09:37 PM	Hehe, I was just about to say, I don't think I've ever had only one divine focus on my guy at any one time. Most DMs allow Masterwork armor to include it inscribed on the armor (or shield) for a small extra fee.
Ubasrawr 06-21-07, 09:30 AM	to answer your question on called shot i think you read it in the D20 modern book here the link to it http://mysite.verizon.net/darinl/rpg/woundsvit.pdf nvm this isn't even official just someone elses work
Mock26 06-21-07, 05:53 PM	A Houseruled amputation system I played under once was based on the old 2nd Edition called shot system from the Complete Fighter's Handbook. Doing 25% of a creatures total hitpoints to a single limb (leg or arm) with a single attack made that limb numb. A numbed limb is useless for the rest of that combat round. If the amount of damage at least 50% then that limb is useless and is useless for the rest of the combat. After combat it takes a magical healing source or at least two hours of rest to bring make the limb useful again. We also had a house rule that if you did 75% of the total hit points damage in a single blow you would sever the limb. The upside of all of this was that it added some fun "realism" to the game. The down side is that it was pretty much pointless to try and sever a limb after you had already done damage to a person. This same system was used with the head, but there was a chart that replaced the numbed and useless results with options such as dizziness, blindness, deafness, etc. But, this system is not for everyone. If you are interested, maybe you could find a copy of Complete Fighter's Handbook and sit down with your DM and other players and try to work on a realistic system for called shots. Just bear in mind that D&D was not designed to deal with called shots against body parts (and they even say this in the Fighter's Handbook) and that any system of called shots will have flaws in it. But, it can work with a little forethought and careful planning.
Edymnion 06-21-07, 06:17 PM	Well, if you're going to be in a game that lets him make a called shot to chop off your hands, the answer is very simple. You make a called shot to cut off his head. There, fight over. Or how about you do the same thing and cut HIS hands off? Fighter isn't going to be able to do much if he has no hands to hold his weapons with. Or how about called shot to chop his legs off, then you back up 5' and laugh at him while you use ranged attacks/spells. Or, how about you make a called shot to his balls, then laugh at him while he's rolling around on the ground in pain, and you CdG him? Long story short, anything he can do, you can do.
Marcus Majarra 06-22-07, 12:35 AM	You make a called shot to cut off his head. Hey! Just like my vorpal greatsword! Or how about you do the same thing and cut HIS hands off? Fighter isn't going to be able to do much if he has no hands to hold his weapons with. I wish I'd known this before using the disarm maneuver... Or how about called shot to chop his legs off, then you back up 5' and laugh at him while you use ranged attacks/spells. I wish I'd known this before using the trip maneuver... Or, how about you make a called shot to his balls, then laugh at him while he's rolling around on the ground in pain, and you CdG him? Well, this makes my stunning fist + paralyzing strike monk useless... Just kidding. Called shots are ridiculous.
Avatar of Kokusho 06-22-07, 09:02 AM	Called shots don't exist, generally. However, in RP situations, they can be extremely fun. Our group does not always roll battles. In certain cases, we roleplay it, with minimal dice rolling. For instance, my female fighter was accosted in an alleyway by a corrupt town guard. First he attempted to extort money from her, and then he suggested that I could pay in some way that didn't involve money. (I'm sure you can guess what.:( ) When I told him to go to hell, he grappled me. My fighter had Improved Unarmed Strike, so I told the DM that I wished to use my knee for a called shot to the groin. Since it was appropriate to the situation (any man that tried to force himself on a woman deserves it) he allowed it, with a Fortitude save to negate stunning for one round. He failed and let go, and I avoided a particularly nasty occurrance. In battles, where combat rounds last six seconds, stuff like that is difficult to pull off. I may allow a called shot to the hand or eye, but only after a few rounds of study, aiming, and the like. Even if you manage to pull it off, the worst you're going to do is give your enemy a penalty on checks that involve whatever you shot at.