can invisibility be disbelieved? [Archive] - Wizards Community

can invisibility be disbelieved? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
yoda369p
04-29-07, 02:35 PM Can invisibility be disbelieved?
Evil DM Mk3
04-29-07, 02:38 PM No.
Witch
04-29-07, 02:44 PM No.
. .
Neutronium_Dragon
04-29-07, 05:14 PM You can't disbelieve it in a mechanical sense.

You can certainly conclude (based on evidence or paranoia) that there is something invisible in the area and act on that assumption, but that in no way causes the invisibility to be negated or otherwise bypassed or seen through.
Marcus Majarra
04-29-07, 07:23 PM The only spells that can be disbelieved are those that allow for a Will disbelief save.
Xykon
04-30-07, 04:00 AM The only spells that can be disbelieved are those that allow for a Will disbelief save.Yah, and they can only be disbelieved if they "interacted" with it.
Millennium
04-30-07, 06:40 AM To disbelieve invisibility, you'd need to know exactly where the subject of the spell was, which would render the invisibility moot anyway.
lears_fool
04-30-07, 08:49 AM To disbelieve invisibility, you'd need to know exactly where the subject of the spell was, which would render the invisibility moot anyway.
It still wouldn't be 'disbelieved'. You'd know where someone invisible was, but they'd still be invisible.
Evil DM Mk3
04-30-07, 09:34 AM You diseblive false sensory input.

Unlike most ilussions, Invisability is the oposite of that.
Millennium
04-30-07, 09:51 AM It still wouldn't be 'disbelieved'. You'd know where someone invisible was, but they'd still be invisible.
I know; I'm just saying that even if it could be disbelieved, to do that you'd already have to know where the person is, so you'd have to essentially defeat the invisibility before you could disbelieve it anyway.
meabolex
04-30-07, 11:51 AM Invisibility is a glamer. Glamers actually change how something looks. It's not false sensory output to not see an invisible creature. The creature is indeed invisible.
mvincent
04-30-07, 12:44 PM I'm just saying that even if it could be disbelieved, to do that you'd already have to know where the person is, so you'd have to essentially defeat the invisibility before you could disbelieve it anyway.I understand what you are saying, but that is actually incorrect. There are lots of ways to determine which square an invisible opponent is in, but unless you can see him you still have a 50% miss chance, lose your dex to AC, can be sneak attacked, etc. Plus, he can move out of that square fairly easily.
Edymnion
05-02-07, 06:28 PM The spell description does not say you can, so no.
The spell is not labled as mind-affecting, so there is nothing messing with your head that you could choose to disbelieve in the first place.
Mock26
05-02-07, 06:40 PM You can disbelieve anything you want in the world. But, whether or not you disbelieve has no bearing what-so-ever on some things, one of which is invisibility. So, if you think there is an invisible bridge across a gorge, you could disbelieve it. Bear in mind, though, that if you do disbelieve in the invisibility it doesn't affect the invisibile object in any way, shape, or form. It will still be invisible whether or not you believe or disbelieve in it. That means that if there actually is an invisible bridge you will appear to be walking on air as you cross it. If there isn't an invisible bridge you'll have serveral seconds to reconsider the wisdom of your disbelief as you fall to the bottom.

All humor aside, the answer, in game terms, is, "No."

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.

PS The best way to disbelieve in invisibility is to throw a bag of flour on whatever you think is invisible.
allenchan
05-02-07, 06:44 PM Except the Church Inquisitor (CD), right? They get the ability to automatically have a will save against any illusion, not specifically mind-affecting ones or ones that must be interacted with. Any illusion.
Mock26
05-02-07, 06:47 PM Except the Church Inquisitor (CD), right? They get the ability to automatically have a will save against any illusion, not specifically mind-affecting ones or ones that must be interacted with. Any illusion.

Darned Inquisition! That's cheating! :D
tos_shai_hulud
05-02-07, 06:52 PM PS The best way to disbelieve in invisibility is to throw a bag of flour on whatever you think is invisible.

Personally, I think EPIC SPOT!!!! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spotDefeatIllusion) is the best way to disbelieve in invisibility.
Mock26
05-02-07, 07:06 PM Personally, I think EPIC SPOT!!!! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spotDefeatIllusion) is the best way to disbelieve in invisibility.

Epic Spot? Is that like some sort of 50th level dog? :D
tos_shai_hulud
05-02-07, 07:08 PM Epic Spot? Is that like some sort of 50th level dog? :D

Well, I call my familiar Epic Spot, but everyone else calls her Tiamat. Am I a munchkin?
Mock26
05-02-07, 07:15 PM Am I a munchkin?

I don't know. Do you represent the lollipop guild?
tos_shai_hulud
05-02-07, 07:18 PM I don't know. Do you represent the lollipop guild?

No, but I am a 9th level fighter. And my character doesn't have a last name. Or a first name.
TheAngryFish
05-02-07, 07:27 PM Well, if seeing is believing, then I guess it is unbelievable.
mvincent
05-02-07, 07:54 PM Except the Church Inquisitor (CD), right? They get the ability to automatically have a will save against any illusion, not specifically mind-affecting ones or ones that must be interacted with. Any illusion.Nobody is expected by the Spanish Inquisition!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yoda369p 04-29-07, 02:35 PM	Can invisibility be disbelieved?
Evil DM Mk3 04-29-07, 02:38 PM	No.
Witch 04-29-07, 02:44 PM	No. . .
Neutronium_Dragon 04-29-07, 05:14 PM	You can't disbelieve it in a mechanical sense. You can certainly conclude (based on evidence or paranoia) that there is something invisible in the area and act on that assumption, but that in no way causes the invisibility to be negated or otherwise bypassed or seen through.
Marcus Majarra 04-29-07, 07:23 PM	The only spells that can be disbelieved are those that allow for a Will disbelief save.
Xykon 04-30-07, 04:00 AM	The only spells that can be disbelieved are those that allow for a Will disbelief save.Yah, and they can only be disbelieved if they "interacted" with it.
Millennium 04-30-07, 06:40 AM	To disbelieve invisibility, you'd need to know exactly where the subject of the spell was, which would render the invisibility moot anyway.
lears_fool 04-30-07, 08:49 AM	To disbelieve invisibility, you'd need to know exactly where the subject of the spell was, which would render the invisibility moot anyway. It still wouldn't be 'disbelieved'. You'd know where someone invisible was, but they'd still be invisible.
Evil DM Mk3 04-30-07, 09:34 AM	You diseblive false sensory input. Unlike most ilussions, Invisability is the oposite of that.
Millennium 04-30-07, 09:51 AM	It still wouldn't be 'disbelieved'. You'd know where someone invisible was, but they'd still be invisible. I know; I'm just saying that even if it could be disbelieved, to do that you'd already have to know where the person is, so you'd have to essentially defeat the invisibility before you could disbelieve it anyway.
meabolex 04-30-07, 11:51 AM	Invisibility is a glamer. Glamers actually change how something looks. It's not false sensory output to not see an invisible creature. The creature is indeed invisible.
mvincent 04-30-07, 12:44 PM	I'm just saying that even if it could be disbelieved, to do that you'd already have to know where the person is, so you'd have to essentially defeat the invisibility before you could disbelieve it anyway.I understand what you are saying, but that is actually incorrect. There are lots of ways to determine which square an invisible opponent is in, but unless you can see him you still have a 50% miss chance, lose your dex to AC, can be sneak attacked, etc. Plus, he can move out of that square fairly easily.
Edymnion 05-02-07, 06:28 PM	The spell description does not say you can, so no. The spell is not labled as mind-affecting, so there is nothing messing with your head that you could choose to disbelieve in the first place.
Mock26 05-02-07, 06:40 PM	You can disbelieve anything you want in the world. But, whether or not you disbelieve has no bearing what-so-ever on some things, one of which is invisibility. So, if you think there is an invisible bridge across a gorge, you could disbelieve it. Bear in mind, though, that if you do disbelieve in the invisibility it doesn't affect the invisibile object in any way, shape, or form. It will still be invisible whether or not you believe or disbelieve in it. That means that if there actually is an invisible bridge you will appear to be walking on air as you cross it. If there isn't an invisible bridge you'll have serveral seconds to reconsider the wisdom of your disbelief as you fall to the bottom. All humor aside, the answer, in game terms, is, "No." Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. PS The best way to disbelieve in invisibility is to throw a bag of flour on whatever you think is invisible.
allenchan 05-02-07, 06:44 PM	Except the Church Inquisitor (CD), right? They get the ability to automatically have a will save against any illusion, not specifically mind-affecting ones or ones that must be interacted with. Any illusion.
Mock26 05-02-07, 06:47 PM	Except the Church Inquisitor (CD), right? They get the ability to automatically have a will save against any illusion, not specifically mind-affecting ones or ones that must be interacted with. Any illusion. Darned Inquisition! That's cheating! :D
tos_shai_hulud 05-02-07, 06:52 PM	PS The best way to disbelieve in invisibility is to throw a bag of flour on whatever you think is invisible. Personally, I think EPIC SPOT!!!! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spotDefeatIllusion) is the best way to disbelieve in invisibility.
Mock26 05-02-07, 07:06 PM	Personally, I think EPIC SPOT!!!! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spotDefeatIllusion) is the best way to disbelieve in invisibility. Epic Spot? Is that like some sort of 50th level dog? :D
tos_shai_hulud 05-02-07, 07:08 PM	Epic Spot? Is that like some sort of 50th level dog? :D Well, I call my familiar Epic Spot, but everyone else calls her Tiamat. Am I a munchkin?
Mock26 05-02-07, 07:15 PM	Am I a munchkin? I don't know. Do you represent the lollipop guild?
tos_shai_hulud 05-02-07, 07:18 PM	I don't know. Do you represent the lollipop guild? No, but I am a 9th level fighter. And my character doesn't have a last name. Or a first name.
TheAngryFish 05-02-07, 07:27 PM	Well, if seeing is believing, then I guess it is unbelievable.
mvincent 05-02-07, 07:54 PM	Except the Church Inquisitor (CD), right? They get the ability to automatically have a will save against any illusion, not specifically mind-affecting ones or ones that must be interacted with. Any illusion.Nobody is expected by the Spanish Inquisition!