Can you 5 foot step while prone? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can you 5 foot step while prone? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RainerNader
06-28-07, 03:22 PM Hey guys,

In one of my D&D games, we've been saying that you can 5 foot step while prone. In other words, if you get tripped, on your turn you can just 5 foot step away, then stand up, avoiding any AOO.

Is this actually allowed?
Leilond
06-28-07, 03:31 PM No. It is also written on the FAQ. You can move 5' foot when prone (called crawling) as "move action" that provoke an AoO
Eater_Of_Souls
06-28-07, 05:31 PM No. It is also written on the FAQ. You can move 5' foot when prone (called crawling) as "move action" that provoke an AoO

Standing up and then taking 5ft step does not provoke an AoO though ;)
Leilond
06-28-07, 05:36 PM Standing up and then taking 5ft step does not provoke an AoO though ;)

Standig up provoke AoO
weasel0
06-28-07, 05:47 PM Both standing and moving while prone(full-round action to crawl 5') provoke AoO. We house rule using tumble. Kinda do a flip/roll/handstand thing... or somethin like that. But again... that's a house rule.
Kouk
06-28-07, 09:45 PM You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.

Crawling is not a listed form of movement, it is something you have to spend a move action on to move 5 feet.

Crawling
You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.

If you could just take a 5 ft step, then there would be no need for this rule on crawling.

Here are some tips that can help you get up from prone more safely, and to my knowledge they are all legal (except that house rule that I state at the end).

Here are some nifty ways to stand up:

Core: You can use Combat Expertise and/or Fighting Defensively to boost your armor, and then stand up with your higher armor class. You could also use Total Defense standard action for the same sort of effect. Then 5ft step at your option.

You can also have an ally or 4 use the Aid Another action to boost your AC by 2 each, (or just provoke the AoO himself, if you suspect the opponent only has one. That's teamwork baby :P).

Complete Adventurer:
Free Stand alternate use of Tumble, high DC tumble check to stand quickly. Provokes AoO as normal for standing up.

Level 1 Thief-Acrobat (Ex) class ability of "kip up", free action no AoO.

Complete Warrior:
Feat: Prone Attack, attack from prone and stand up, possibly still allows AoOs, but it removes the AC penalty for being prone. Combines well with the Combat Expertise/Fighting Defensively move.

PHB II:
Feat: Combat Acrobat, one use is if you are knocked prone, you can make a DC 20 tumble check to remain on your feet, not exactly standing up but similar.

Tactical Feat: Combat Panache, if you "Play Dead" you can stand up on your next turn without provoking

Complete Scoundrel:
Skill Trick: Back On Your Feet, if you fall prone for any reason, stand as immediate action without provoking.

Skill Trick: Nimble Stand get up without provoking.

Feats: Various Luck Feats can help you avoid falling in the first place.

Spells
Swift Invisibility, casting a Swift spell doesn't provoke, and you are then Invisible and free to move around without provoking AoOs.

House Rules:
Some people use a house rule that you can stand up as a full-round action without provoking an AoO. This might also be broken down into a Move action to go from Prone to Kneeling that does not provoke, and getting up from Kneeling to standing as a Move action that does not provoke.

If anyone has some more, I would love to add them to the list :D
Eater_Of_Souls
06-29-07, 03:36 AM Standig up provoke AoO

You sure ? Damn I have to check :P
Yes you're right it's a standard action, not free action.
Kouk
06-29-07, 06:45 AM You sure ? Damn I have to check :P
Yes you're right it's a standard action, not free action.

Stand Up

Standing up from a prone position requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity

Combat chapter.
Eater_Of_Souls
06-29-07, 08:57 AM Combat chapter.

Well I have allways been a better story teller then a rule lawyer :P
foxtail
06-29-07, 09:07 AM House Rules:
Some people use a house rule that you can stand up as a full-round action without provoking an AoO.

In more than one campaign I've played, going from prone to kneeling was a move action that does not provoke, as is going from kneeling to standing. So it essentially works the same way, except you can stop in the middle if you really want to.
Coldkilla
06-29-07, 10:43 AM Core: You can use Combat Expertise and/or Fighting Defensively to boost your armor, and then stand up with your higher armor class. You could also use Total Defense standard action for the same sort of effect. Then 5ft step at your option.

To clarify, Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively both require an attack action or full attack action and they stack, so if your BAB is 2 or higher, you'd shift max BAB to AC (up to 5) using Combat Expertise, Fight Defensively (+2 AC, -4 to hit), get a swing at an opponent and probably miss (-4 prone, -4 Def, -X CbtExp), stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +2 Def, +X CbtExp), then 5ft step.

If your BAB is only 1, go Total Defense for +4 AC as a standard action, stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +4 TotDef), then 5ft step.
mvincent
06-29-07, 12:33 PM In more than one campaign I've played, going from prone to kneeling was a move action that does not provoke, as is going from kneeling to standing.That is reasonable, has some precedence, and does not contradict any other rules. From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040618a):
"If you're kneeling on the ground, getting up takes some time, but it doesn't make you vulnerable, so you use a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. "
Sorath
06-29-07, 06:56 PM That is reasonable, has some precedence, and does not contradict any other rules. From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040618a):
"If you're kneeling on the ground, getting up takes some time, but it doesn't make you vulnerable, so you use a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. "

However, I see nothing in there that says anything about going from prone to kneeling. So I would rule that going from prone to kneeling provokes an AoO and requires a move action and going from kneeling to standing does not provoke an AoO and is also a move action.
Some_call_me_Tim
06-29-07, 07:19 PM Complete Adventurer:
Free Stand alternate use of Tumble, high DC tumble check to stand quickly.Nice list, but to be clear for those just tuning in, this still does provoke.
SALDAR
06-30-07, 03:27 PM Take note as well:

Crawling
You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.

This overrides the normal AoO rules for movement provoking when leaving a threatened square. So crawling provokes when leaving or entering a threatened square.
foxtail
06-30-07, 09:39 PM However, I see nothing in there that says anything about going from prone to kneeling. So I would rule that going from prone to kneeling provokes an AoO and requires a move action and going from kneeling to standing does not provoke an AoO and is also a move action.

Yeah, but then that's two move actions and an AoO to go from prone to standing, as opposed to normally standing, which is one move action and an AoO. So what's the point?

Besides, just because the RAW doesn't specifically say that something won't provoke an AoO, doesn't mean that it does.
Kouk
07-01-07, 12:07 AM Nice list, but to be clear for those just tuning in, this still does provoke.

Yes, I'll add that information thanks.
Kouk
07-01-07, 12:08 AM In more than one campaign I've played, going from prone to kneeling was a move action that does not provoke, as is going from kneeling to standing. So it essentially works the same way, except you can stop in the middle if you really want to.

I use that too, I just thought it would be extraneous to throw in but it is probably good for completeness' sake.

To clarify, Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively both require an attack action or full attack action and they stack, so if your BAB is 2 or higher, you'd shift max BAB to AC (up to 5) using Combat Expertise, Fight Defensively (+2 AC, -4 to hit), get a swing at an opponent and probably miss (-4 prone, -4 Def, -X CbtExp), stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +2 Def, +X CbtExp), then 5ft step.

If your BAB is only 1, go Total Defense for +4 AC as a standard action, stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +4 TotDef), then 5ft step.

Yes, you will probably fail on the attack like that, but it is necessary to get the most AC, if you have enough BAB to benefit. You could try a Trip/Grapple attempt with a weapon or Improved Trip/Improved Grapple if you have those, and maybe give the enemy some penalties too. It is easier to hit with a Touch attack.
Nom
07-01-07, 08:57 AM In one of my D&D games, we've been saying that you can 5 foot step while prone. In other words, if you get tripped, on your turn you can just 5 foot step away, then stand up, avoiding any AOO.

Is this actually allowed?There are two reasons you can't 5 ft. step while prone.

(1) You don't have a listed move speed for "crawl" (Leilond noted this above).

(2) You can't 5 ft. step when your movement speed is 5 ft. or less.

And even if you could, SALDAR is correct in noting that the crawl action itself, not merely the movement, provokes an AoO.

As a house rule, allowing a character to crawl 5 ft. or to stand as a full round action that doesn't provoke AoOs seems reasonable to me.
DrMorganes
07-01-07, 08:03 PM I'll have to look through Complete Scoundrel. Seems to me there's something - either a new feat, a skill trick, or one of the expanded skill uses for Tumble that allows crawling 5' while prone.

Somebody holla if ya find it first!
foxtail
07-01-07, 11:07 PM I'll have to look through Complete Scoundrel. Seems to me there's something - either a new feat, a skill trick, or one of the expanded skill uses for Tumble that allows crawling 5' while prone.

Somebody holla if ya find it first!

It's called Tumbling Crawl. But like all skill tricks, you can only use it once per encounter.
DrMorganes
07-02-07, 11:30 AM Right. Just found it.

Following up on the rest of the conversation, there's also a skill trick called Back on Your Feet that allows you to stand as an immediate action without provoking an AoO. Same limitation as all skill tricks, as Foxtail mentioned above: only once per encounter (barring extra uses granted by the various Trickster prestige classes).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RainerNader 06-28-07, 03:22 PM	Hey guys, In one of my D&D games, we've been saying that you can 5 foot step while prone. In other words, if you get tripped, on your turn you can just 5 foot step away, then stand up, avoiding any AOO. Is this actually allowed?
Leilond 06-28-07, 03:31 PM	No. It is also written on the FAQ. You can move 5' foot when prone (called crawling) as "move action" that provoke an AoO
Eater_Of_Souls 06-28-07, 05:31 PM	No. It is also written on the FAQ. You can move 5' foot when prone (called crawling) as "move action" that provoke an AoO Standing up and then taking 5ft step does not provoke an AoO though ;)
Leilond 06-28-07, 05:36 PM	Standing up and then taking 5ft step does not provoke an AoO though ;) Standig up provoke AoO
weasel0 06-28-07, 05:47 PM	Both standing and moving while prone(full-round action to crawl 5') provoke AoO. We house rule using tumble. Kinda do a flip/roll/handstand thing... or somethin like that. But again... that's a house rule.
Kouk 06-28-07, 09:45 PM	You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature. You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed. Crawling is not a listed form of movement, it is something you have to spend a move action on to move 5 feet. Crawling You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl. If you could just take a 5 ft step, then there would be no need for this rule on crawling. Here are some tips that can help you get up from prone more safely, and to my knowledge they are all legal (except that house rule that I state at the end). Here are some nifty ways to stand up: Core: You can use Combat Expertise and/or Fighting Defensively to boost your armor, and then stand up with your higher armor class. You could also use Total Defense standard action for the same sort of effect. Then 5ft step at your option. You can also have an ally or 4 use the Aid Another action to boost your AC by 2 each, (or just provoke the AoO himself, if you suspect the opponent only has one. That's teamwork baby :P). Complete Adventurer: Free Stand alternate use of Tumble, high DC tumble check to stand quickly. Provokes AoO as normal for standing up. Level 1 Thief-Acrobat (Ex) class ability of "kip up", free action no AoO. Complete Warrior: Feat: Prone Attack, attack from prone and stand up, possibly still allows AoOs, but it removes the AC penalty for being prone. Combines well with the Combat Expertise/Fighting Defensively move. PHB II: Feat: Combat Acrobat, one use is if you are knocked prone, you can make a DC 20 tumble check to remain on your feet, not exactly standing up but similar. Tactical Feat: Combat Panache, if you "Play Dead" you can stand up on your next turn without provoking Complete Scoundrel: Skill Trick: Back On Your Feet, if you fall prone for any reason, stand as immediate action without provoking. Skill Trick: Nimble Stand get up without provoking. Feats: Various Luck Feats can help you avoid falling in the first place. Spells Swift Invisibility, casting a Swift spell doesn't provoke, and you are then Invisible and free to move around without provoking AoOs. House Rules: Some people use a house rule that you can stand up as a full-round action without provoking an AoO. This might also be broken down into a Move action to go from Prone to Kneeling that does not provoke, and getting up from Kneeling to standing as a Move action that does not provoke. If anyone has some more, I would love to add them to the list :D
Eater_Of_Souls 06-29-07, 03:36 AM	Standig up provoke AoO You sure ? Damn I have to check :P Yes you're right it's a standard action, not free action.
Kouk 06-29-07, 06:45 AM	You sure ? Damn I have to check :P Yes you're right it's a standard action, not free action. Stand Up Standing up from a prone position requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity Combat chapter.
Eater_Of_Souls 06-29-07, 08:57 AM	Combat chapter. Well I have allways been a better story teller then a rule lawyer :P
foxtail 06-29-07, 09:07 AM	House Rules: Some people use a house rule that you can stand up as a full-round action without provoking an AoO. In more than one campaign I've played, going from prone to kneeling was a move action that does not provoke, as is going from kneeling to standing. So it essentially works the same way, except you can stop in the middle if you really want to.
Coldkilla 06-29-07, 10:43 AM	Core: You can use Combat Expertise and/or Fighting Defensively to boost your armor, and then stand up with your higher armor class. You could also use Total Defense standard action for the same sort of effect. Then 5ft step at your option. To clarify, Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively both require an attack action or full attack action and they stack, so if your BAB is 2 or higher, you'd shift max BAB to AC (up to 5) using Combat Expertise, Fight Defensively (+2 AC, -4 to hit), get a swing at an opponent and probably miss (-4 prone, -4 Def, -X CbtExp), stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +2 Def, +X CbtExp), then 5ft step. If your BAB is only 1, go Total Defense for +4 AC as a standard action, stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +4 TotDef), then 5ft step.
mvincent 06-29-07, 12:33 PM	In more than one campaign I've played, going from prone to kneeling was a move action that does not provoke, as is going from kneeling to standing.That is reasonable, has some precedence, and does not contradict any other rules. From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040618a): "If you're kneeling on the ground, getting up takes some time, but it doesn't make you vulnerable, so you use a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. "
Sorath 06-29-07, 06:56 PM	That is reasonable, has some precedence, and does not contradict any other rules. From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040618a): "If you're kneeling on the ground, getting up takes some time, but it doesn't make you vulnerable, so you use a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. " However, I see nothing in there that says anything about going from prone to kneeling. So I would rule that going from prone to kneeling provokes an AoO and requires a move action and going from kneeling to standing does not provoke an AoO and is also a move action.
Some_call_me_Tim 06-29-07, 07:19 PM	Complete Adventurer: Free Stand alternate use of Tumble, high DC tumble check to stand quickly.Nice list, but to be clear for those just tuning in, this still does provoke.
SALDAR 06-30-07, 03:27 PM	Take note as well: Crawling You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl. This overrides the normal AoO rules for movement provoking when leaving a threatened square. So crawling provokes when leaving or entering a threatened square.
foxtail 06-30-07, 09:39 PM	However, I see nothing in there that says anything about going from prone to kneeling. So I would rule that going from prone to kneeling provokes an AoO and requires a move action and going from kneeling to standing does not provoke an AoO and is also a move action. Yeah, but then that's two move actions and an AoO to go from prone to standing, as opposed to normally standing, which is one move action and an AoO. So what's the point? Besides, just because the RAW doesn't specifically say that something won't provoke an AoO, doesn't mean that it does.
Kouk 07-01-07, 12:07 AM	Nice list, but to be clear for those just tuning in, this still does provoke. Yes, I'll add that information thanks.
Kouk 07-01-07, 12:08 AM	In more than one campaign I've played, going from prone to kneeling was a move action that does not provoke, as is going from kneeling to standing. So it essentially works the same way, except you can stop in the middle if you really want to. I use that too, I just thought it would be extraneous to throw in but it is probably good for completeness' sake. To clarify, Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively both require an attack action or full attack action and they stack, so if your BAB is 2 or higher, you'd shift max BAB to AC (up to 5) using Combat Expertise, Fight Defensively (+2 AC, -4 to hit), get a swing at an opponent and probably miss (-4 prone, -4 Def, -X CbtExp), stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +2 Def, +X CbtExp), then 5ft step. If your BAB is only 1, go Total Defense for +4 AC as a standard action, stand up as your move-equivalent and take an AoO for doing so (AC: -4 prone, +4 TotDef), then 5ft step. Yes, you will probably fail on the attack like that, but it is necessary to get the most AC, if you have enough BAB to benefit. You could try a Trip/Grapple attempt with a weapon or Improved Trip/Improved Grapple if you have those, and maybe give the enemy some penalties too. It is easier to hit with a Touch attack.
Nom 07-01-07, 08:57 AM	In one of my D&D games, we've been saying that you can 5 foot step while prone. In other words, if you get tripped, on your turn you can just 5 foot step away, then stand up, avoiding any AOO. Is this actually allowed?There are two reasons you can't 5 ft. step while prone. (1) You don't have a listed move speed for "crawl" (Leilond noted this above). (2) You can't 5 ft. step when your movement speed is 5 ft. or less. And even if you could, SALDAR is correct in noting that the crawl action itself, not merely the movement, provokes an AoO. As a house rule, allowing a character to crawl 5 ft. or to stand as a full round action that doesn't provoke AoOs seems reasonable to me.
DrMorganes 07-01-07, 08:03 PM	I'll have to look through Complete Scoundrel. Seems to me there's something - either a new feat, a skill trick, or one of the expanded skill uses for Tumble that allows crawling 5' while prone. Somebody holla if ya find it first!
foxtail 07-01-07, 11:07 PM	I'll have to look through Complete Scoundrel. Seems to me there's something - either a new feat, a skill trick, or one of the expanded skill uses for Tumble that allows crawling 5' while prone. Somebody holla if ya find it first! It's called Tumbling Crawl. But like all skill tricks, you can only use it once per encounter.
DrMorganes 07-02-07, 11:30 AM	Right. Just found it. Following up on the rest of the conversation, there's also a skill trick called Back on Your Feet that allows you to stand as an immediate action without provoking an AoO. Same limitation as all skill tricks, as Foxtail mentioned above: only once per encounter (barring extra uses granted by the various Trickster prestige classes).