Catch me if you can [Archive] - Wizards Community

Catch me if you can [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Clearly_Toughpick
10-03-07, 04:38 AM Are there any published rules for throwing and catching? Or indeed for just passing something to someone else by hand. And does it make a difference if you are trying to do these things in or out of combat?

To my mind, such rules need to cover the following eventualities:

a character throwing something to be caught by an allied character (say a Wizard has a potion of Haste and he wants to throw it to the Rogue in the party because she can make better use of it);
a character intercepting something thrown by an opponent (say the Assasin they are battling tries to intercept the throw);
a character catching something dropping from a height (say a Fighter wants to catch a falling block of stone that might irreparably damage a valuable item);
a character passing an item to another character in combat (say the same Wizard wants to pass a potion of Haste to the Rogue standing next to him).

If we were to build these rules up from scratch, starting points in the core rules would be the rules about thrown splash weapons and the Giant ability to catch and throw rocks.

Over to you.
heffroncm
10-03-07, 12:41 PM Passing an item to someone in the space next to you is guarunteed. I would rule it a move action to hand the item to someone, same as it takes a move action to pull an item out of your pack. I'd allow the recipient to take it as a free action.

I believe the Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feats are going to be the best basis for comparison. Snatch Arrows allows you, as a once a round free action, to grab a projectile weapon that is being fired at you in a way meant to do damage and prevent deflection. It seems fair to allow the same terms (once a round as a free action) for items thrown in a way that is meant to be caught.

Tossing the item would be a standard action, as you need to be careful where you are throwing it. I would ask for an attack roll for a grenadelike weapon. I would assume the DC is 10, as a quick free-action shout would let someone know not to dodge this.

Intercepting it would be a bit trickier. In most cases, I would not allow an intercept attempt. There is too much potential for lofting the item over someone's head. If they had readied an action to stop it, or held their action, I would allow an attempt.
mvincent
10-03-07, 03:01 PM Are there any published rules for throwing and catching? From the 3.5 FAQ:
"The game rules don’t really handle the specific issue of
catching an object thrown to you by an ally, but we can
extrapolate from the information in the Player’s Handbook and
other sources to propose a simple method of adjudicating this.
Using the boomerang as an example, it would appear that
an attack roll is necessary to catch a typical object. This is a
melee touch attack, but it should add the catching character’s
Dexterity modifier rather than Strength modifier.
An object’s AC is 10 + Dex mod (typically –5 for 0 Dex) +
size modifier (see Table 8–1: Size Modifiers on page 134 the
Player’s Handbook). A potion (size Fine) would have an AC of
13, while an unconscious halfling rogue lobbed to you would
have an AC of 6.
Most importantly, catching an object thrown to you
requires a standard action. Since you’re likely doing this on
another character’s turn, you’ll probably have to ready an
action to do so.
Of course, this only covers catching something thrown to
you, not at you. Most characters don’t have any ability to catch
something thrown at them (such as a dagger or a big rock),
although certain feats (such as Snatch Arrow) may allow this."
ShadowChemosh
10-03-07, 03:15 PM ...
Intercepting it would be a bit trickier. In most cases, I would not allow an intercept attempt. There is too much potential for lofting the item over someone's head. If they had readied an action to stop it, or held their action, I would allow an attempt.
Here is how I see it happening in a turn based system. Player A is throwing to Player B and I agree that it should be a Standard action with an attack roll. Player A throws and rolls his attack roll and his turn ends. The object thrown does not actually arrive until Players B turn comes around. So if NPCx's turn comes up in between Player A and Player B turn then he could use a Standard Action to attempt to catch the object thrown. I would say it requires a Touch Attack vs the AC of 10 + Object Size(most common would be Fine) so AC18. This is because why turn based in the game in real life everything is happening all at once. So the object is in flight and if fast enough the NPC could react to attempt to catch it.
heffroncm
10-03-07, 03:40 PM Here is how I see it happening in a turn based system. Player A is throwing to Player B and I agree that it should be a Standard action with an attack roll. Player A throws and rolls his attack roll and his turn ends. The object thrown does not actually arrive until Players B turn comes around. So if NPCx's turn comes up in between Player A and Player B turn then he could use a Standard Action to attempt to catch the object thrown. I would say it requires a Touch Attack vs the AC of 10 + Object Size(most common would be Fine) so AC18. This is because why turn based in the game in real life everything is happening all at once. So the object is in flight and if fast enough the NPC could react to attempt to catch it.

This doesn't work for me because of the ruling that ranged weaponry hits on the same turn it is fired. If lobbing a potion takes time to reach it's intended target, which in reality it does, then so does lobbing a shot with a longbow.
ShadowChemosh
10-03-07, 03:50 PM This doesn't work for me because of the ruling that ranged weaponry hits on the same turn it is fired. If lobbing a potion takes time to reach it's intended target, which in reality it does, then so does lobbing a shot with a longbow.
Except an arrow has a velocity of about 170 feet-per-second and throwing a potion bottle so someone COULD catch it has a velocity of say 1ft per second. Other than that small detail you are correct.
heffroncm
10-03-07, 04:47 PM Except an arrow has a velocity of about 170 feet-per-second and throwing a potion bottle so someone COULD catch it has a velocity of say 1ft per second. Other than that small detail you are correct.

Hence why I said "lob." You can arc an arrow up and have gravity bring it back down at a spot 800 feet away on your turn. Why can't you arc a potion up and have gravity bring it down on a spot 20 feet away on your turn?
Clearly_Toughpick
10-05-07, 10:36 AM Taking account of what you've posted, here’s how I would rule it. Hold your breath 'cos I've really gone for it here.

Passing an item to someone in a space next to you is a readied move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To pass an item from your hand to someone else’s hand, you must ready an action to pass the item to the recipient; the trigger for your readied action is that the recipient moves to receive the item. On his turn, the recipient moves to receive the item and you automatically pass it to him. Receiving an item in this way is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Throwing an item to someone is a readied standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To throw an item to someone, you must ready a ranged attack on their square (not an intersection); the DC is 5 (10 +0 size modifier -5 Dexterity modifier; the range increment for a thrown object is 10’), and the trigger for your readied action is that the catcher moves to catch the item. The rules for missing with thrown splash weapons apply here too.

On her turn, the catcher moves to catch the item, so triggering you to throw it to her. Catching an item in this way is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To catch the item she must succeed on a melee touch attack modified by Dexterity rather than Strength; the DC is 10 + size modifier of the item + Dexterity modifier of the item (-5 for an inanimate object). The catcher can attempt to catch an item that misses her square as long as she can move the distance within a single move action, and the catch DC increases by 1 for every 5’ she moves. Animate creatures that want to be caught can subtract their Dexterity bonus, if they have one, from the DC rather than adding it.

It is not possible to intercept a throw, but throwing and catching do provoke attacks of opportunity which can be disarm attempts.

For the purposes of how big an item can be thrown and caught, and how far it can be thrown, these rules assume that the item being thrown is at least two size categories smaller than the catcher or thrower. If it is larger, then a thrower must make a Strength check to throw the item, and a catcher must make a Strength check to catch it. If the item is one size category smaller, the DC is 10; add 10 to the DC for each additional size category. For example, a Human (M) catching a Halfling (S) would have to succeed on a Strength check DC 10; if he were trying to catch another Human, the DC would be 20. If a catcher fails this Strength check by 5 or more, he is knocked prone.

An item can be thrown over 5 range increments, assuming that the item is two size categories smaller than the thrower. For each difference in size category, add or subtract two range increments from the total allowable. For example, a Human (M) throwing a Halfling (S) can throw her up to three range increments; he can throw a potion (F) up to nine range increments, and another Human (M) up to one range increment.

The feat Snatch Arrows allows you to attempt to catch items as a free action, so obviating the need for an ally to ready a throw action; and you catch items two size categories or smaller than you automatically (you do not need to make a melee touch attack).

Catch variant: if the catcher fails the melee touch attack by five or more and the item is tiny or larger, she sustains damage as follows (T 1 hp, S 1d2 hp, M 1d6 hp, L 2d6

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Clearly_Toughpick 10-03-07, 04:38 AM	Are there any published rules for throwing and catching? Or indeed for just passing something to someone else by hand. And does it make a difference if you are trying to do these things in or out of combat? To my mind, such rules need to cover the following eventualities: a character throwing something to be caught by an allied character (say a Wizard has a potion of Haste and he wants to throw it to the Rogue in the party because she can make better use of it); a character intercepting something thrown by an opponent (say the Assasin they are battling tries to intercept the throw); a character catching something dropping from a height (say a Fighter wants to catch a falling block of stone that might irreparably damage a valuable item); a character passing an item to another character in combat (say the same Wizard wants to pass a potion of Haste to the Rogue standing next to him). If we were to build these rules up from scratch, starting points in the core rules would be the rules about thrown splash weapons and the Giant ability to catch and throw rocks. Over to you.
heffroncm 10-03-07, 12:41 PM	Passing an item to someone in the space next to you is guarunteed. I would rule it a move action to hand the item to someone, same as it takes a move action to pull an item out of your pack. I'd allow the recipient to take it as a free action. I believe the Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feats are going to be the best basis for comparison. Snatch Arrows allows you, as a once a round free action, to grab a projectile weapon that is being fired at you in a way meant to do damage and prevent deflection. It seems fair to allow the same terms (once a round as a free action) for items thrown in a way that is meant to be caught. Tossing the item would be a standard action, as you need to be careful where you are throwing it. I would ask for an attack roll for a grenadelike weapon. I would assume the DC is 10, as a quick free-action shout would let someone know not to dodge this. Intercepting it would be a bit trickier. In most cases, I would not allow an intercept attempt. There is too much potential for lofting the item over someone's head. If they had readied an action to stop it, or held their action, I would allow an attempt.
mvincent 10-03-07, 03:01 PM	Are there any published rules for throwing and catching? From the 3.5 FAQ: "The game rules don’t really handle the specific issue of catching an object thrown to you by an ally, but we can extrapolate from the information in the Player’s Handbook and other sources to propose a simple method of adjudicating this. Using the boomerang as an example, it would appear that an attack roll is necessary to catch a typical object. This is a melee touch attack, but it should add the catching character’s Dexterity modifier rather than Strength modifier. An object’s AC is 10 + Dex mod (typically –5 for 0 Dex) + size modifier (see Table 8–1: Size Modifiers on page 134 the Player’s Handbook). A potion (size Fine) would have an AC of 13, while an unconscious halfling rogue lobbed to you would have an AC of 6. Most importantly, catching an object thrown to you requires a standard action. Since you’re likely doing this on another character’s turn, you’ll probably have to ready an action to do so. Of course, this only covers catching something thrown to you, not at you. Most characters don’t have any ability to catch something thrown at them (such as a dagger or a big rock), although certain feats (such as Snatch Arrow) may allow this."
ShadowChemosh 10-03-07, 03:15 PM	... Intercepting it would be a bit trickier. In most cases, I would not allow an intercept attempt. There is too much potential for lofting the item over someone's head. If they had readied an action to stop it, or held their action, I would allow an attempt. Here is how I see it happening in a turn based system. Player A is throwing to Player B and I agree that it should be a Standard action with an attack roll. Player A throws and rolls his attack roll and his turn ends. The object thrown does not actually arrive until Players B turn comes around. So if NPCx's turn comes up in between Player A and Player B turn then he could use a Standard Action to attempt to catch the object thrown. I would say it requires a Touch Attack vs the AC of 10 + Object Size(most common would be Fine) so AC18. This is because why turn based in the game in real life everything is happening all at once. So the object is in flight and if fast enough the NPC could react to attempt to catch it.
heffroncm 10-03-07, 03:40 PM	Here is how I see it happening in a turn based system. Player A is throwing to Player B and I agree that it should be a Standard action with an attack roll. Player A throws and rolls his attack roll and his turn ends. The object thrown does not actually arrive until Players B turn comes around. So if NPCx's turn comes up in between Player A and Player B turn then he could use a Standard Action to attempt to catch the object thrown. I would say it requires a Touch Attack vs the AC of 10 + Object Size(most common would be Fine) so AC18. This is because why turn based in the game in real life everything is happening all at once. So the object is in flight and if fast enough the NPC could react to attempt to catch it. This doesn't work for me because of the ruling that ranged weaponry hits on the same turn it is fired. If lobbing a potion takes time to reach it's intended target, which in reality it does, then so does lobbing a shot with a longbow.
ShadowChemosh 10-03-07, 03:50 PM	This doesn't work for me because of the ruling that ranged weaponry hits on the same turn it is fired. If lobbing a potion takes time to reach it's intended target, which in reality it does, then so does lobbing a shot with a longbow. Except an arrow has a velocity of about 170 feet-per-second and throwing a potion bottle so someone COULD catch it has a velocity of say 1ft per second. Other than that small detail you are correct.
heffroncm 10-03-07, 04:47 PM	Except an arrow has a velocity of about 170 feet-per-second and throwing a potion bottle so someone COULD catch it has a velocity of say 1ft per second. Other than that small detail you are correct. Hence why I said "lob." You can arc an arrow up and have gravity bring it back down at a spot 800 feet away on your turn. Why can't you arc a potion up and have gravity bring it down on a spot 20 feet away on your turn?
Clearly_Toughpick 10-05-07, 10:36 AM	Taking account of what you've posted, here’s how I would rule it. Hold your breath 'cos I've really gone for it here. Passing an item to someone in a space next to you is a readied move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To pass an item from your hand to someone else’s hand, you must ready an action to pass the item to the recipient; the trigger for your readied action is that the recipient moves to receive the item. On his turn, the recipient moves to receive the item and you automatically pass it to him. Receiving an item in this way is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Throwing an item to someone is a readied standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To throw an item to someone, you must ready a ranged attack on their square (not an intersection); the DC is 5 (10 +0 size modifier -5 Dexterity modifier; the range increment for a thrown object is 10’), and the trigger for your readied action is that the catcher moves to catch the item. The rules for missing with thrown splash weapons apply here too. On her turn, the catcher moves to catch the item, so triggering you to throw it to her. Catching an item in this way is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To catch the item she must succeed on a melee touch attack modified by Dexterity rather than Strength; the DC is 10 + size modifier of the item + Dexterity modifier of the item (-5 for an inanimate object). The catcher can attempt to catch an item that misses her square as long as she can move the distance within a single move action, and the catch DC increases by 1 for every 5’ she moves. Animate creatures that want to be caught can subtract their Dexterity bonus, if they have one, from the DC rather than adding it. It is not possible to intercept a throw, but throwing and catching do provoke attacks of opportunity which can be disarm attempts. For the purposes of how big an item can be thrown and caught, and how far it can be thrown, these rules assume that the item being thrown is at least two size categories smaller than the catcher or thrower. If it is larger, then a thrower must make a Strength check to throw the item, and a catcher must make a Strength check to catch it. If the item is one size category smaller, the DC is 10; add 10 to the DC for each additional size category. For example, a Human (M) catching a Halfling (S) would have to succeed on a Strength check DC 10; if he were trying to catch another Human, the DC would be 20. If a catcher fails this Strength check by 5 or more, he is knocked prone. An item can be thrown over 5 range increments, assuming that the item is two size categories smaller than the thrower. For each difference in size category, add or subtract two range increments from the total allowable. For example, a Human (M) throwing a Halfling (S) can throw her up to three range increments; he can throw a potion (F) up to nine range increments, and another Human (M) up to one range increment. The feat Snatch Arrows allows you to attempt to catch items as a free action, so obviating the need for an ally to ready a throw action; and you catch items two size categories or smaller than you automatically (you do not need to make a melee touch attack). Catch variant: if the catcher fails the melee touch attack by five or more and the item is tiny or larger, she sustains damage as follows (T 1 hp, S 1d2 hp, M 1d6 hp, L 2d6