Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Inyotef 09-11-07, 08:35 PM	I'm playing a high level cleric in my game who has a summoned Celestial Pegasus for a mount. This mount comes from a magic item (the Pegasus Helm of Kloeth Ironstar in the Player’s Guide to Faerun), which states, "This magnificent winged helmet allows its wearer to summon a celestial pegasus twice per day to serve as a mount or aid in battle." For purposes in our game, the DM considers this to be a war-trained mount with a riding saddle. In addition, my cleric can telepathically communicate to the pegasus as an ability from his Divine Disciple PrC (communicate up to 60' with outsiders of the same alignment). I am having some disagreements with my DM regarding the Ride skill and this pegasus. Specifically: 1) According to the DM, every round during combat, a DC5 base riding skill ("Guide with Knees") is needed, and failure means loss of all actions and any readied spells. My DM is saying these consequences are similar to failing a DC20 Riding skills check ("Control Mount in Battle") for untrained mounts. However, the "Guide with Knees" part of the skill does not indicate you lose all actions or any readied spells if you fail the skills check. (BTW, Concentration Skills checks are being normally applied to cast spells while the pegasus is flying at normal speed, i.e. "vigorous motion.") 2) According to my DM, if the above riding skills check fails, then another Riding skills check ("Stay in Saddle") is needed, and a failure means my character is thrown from the saddle. In addition, another question is whether a "Guide with Knees" check is needed at all if my character can telepathically communicate instructions to the pegasus? What do others think about these rules interpretations?
Kouk 09-11-07, 08:53 PM	I'm playing a high level cleric in my game who has a summoned Celestial Pegasus for a mount. This mount comes from a magic item (the Pegasus Helm of Kloeth Ironstar in the Player’s Guide to Faerun), which states, "This magnificent winged helmet allows its wearer to summon a celestial pegasus twice per day to serve as a mount or aid in battle." For purposes in our game, the DM considers this to be a war-trained mount with a riding saddle. In addition, my cleric can telepathically communicate to the pegasus as an ability from his Divine Disciple PrC (communicate up to 60' with outsiders of the same alignment). I am having some disagreements with my DM regarding the Ride skill and this pegasus. Specifically: 1) According to the DM, every round during combat, a DC5 base riding skill ("Guide with Knees") is needed, and failure means loss of all actions and any readied spells. My DM is saying these consequences are similar to failing a DC20 Riding skills check ("Control Mount in Battle") for untrained mounts. However, the "Guide with Knees" part of the skill does not indicate you lose all actions or any readied spells if you fail the skills check. (BTW, Concentration Skills checks are being normally applied to cast spells while the pegasus is flying at normal speed, i.e. "vigorous motion.") 2) According to my DM, if the above riding skills check fails, then another Riding skills check ("Stay in Saddle") is needed, and a failure means my character is thrown from the saddle. In addition, another question is whether a "Guide with Knees" check is needed at all if my character can telepathically communicate instructions to the pegasus? What do others think about these rules interpretations? I think your DM is just wrong on these issues. EDIT: Have him read the Rules of the Game articles "All About Mounts", you can get them here on the left scroll box. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg There are 5 articles, they may not be in order or upside-down depending on the sorting method.
Inyotef 09-12-07, 09:08 AM	Thanks for the references. Does anyone else have any thoughts about these rules interpretations?
Phrennzy 09-12-07, 11:52 AM	DM is incorrect. Guide with Knees is spelled out under the Ride skill. It is a DC 5. You can react instantly to guide your mount with your knees so that you can use both hands in combat. Make your Ride check at the start of your turn. If you fail, you can use only one hand this round because you need to use the other to control your mount. Casting spells requires one hand. Failing your Ride Check will not stop you from casting as long as both your hands are empty. For instance, if you have a sword in one hand and the other hand is empty, and you attempt to cast a spell, you have to make a Concentration Check DC 10+spell level (vigorous motion of mount in combat). Also, you'd need to make a DC 5 ride check to control the mount with your knees. If your Ride Check fails, you have to reach down to steady yourself. Your empty hand is being used in the spell casting, so using that hand means losing the spell. Using the other hand would require you to drop the sword (free action). As for the telepathic communication, I would still require the Ride check because the physical act of nudges via knees can coincide with the mental act of casting a spell. Casting a spell while thinking "Okay horse, I'm casting this spell so hold it steady until the lightning bolt fires" is just too much mental work. Or, in game terms, spell casting requires concentration, and so does telepathic communication. You can do one or the other, not both.
Matthew77 09-12-07, 04:32 PM	I just want to remind you that a roll of 1 is not an automatic failure on a skill check. So if your Dex mod plus your ranks in Ride is equal to 4 or more, it doesn't matter how many DC 5 ride checks your DM requires, because you will never fail one. IMO, having a high level character fall off their celestial mount in the middle of a combat is unheroic and just plain silly.
Phrennzy 09-12-07, 04:42 PM	I just want to remind you that a roll of 1 is not an automatic failure on a skill check. So if your Dex mod plus your ranks in Ride is equal to 4 or more, it doesn't matter how many DC 5 ride checks your DM requires, because you will never fail one. IMO, having a high level character fall off their celestial mount in the middle of a combat is unheroic and just plain silly. QFMFT
Inyotef 09-12-07, 07:37 PM	I certainly have the ranks in the Ride skill to make the checks, but that was not the point of my questions. My questions had to do with rules interpretations and whether the rules were being applied accurately.
Nom 09-14-07, 08:09 AM	If your Ride Check fails, you have to reach down to steady yourself. Your empty hand is being used in the spell casting, so using that hand means losing the spell. Using the other hand would require you to drop the sword (free action).Actually, it would only cause you to lose the spell if you were currently casting a multi-round spell (in general, casting time > 1 round). Since it occurs at the start of your turn, it won't cause you to lose any actions this turn (though it might limit your options), nor can it interrupt a readied action (since you can't hold a readied action into your turn). Thus, if you fail the DC 5 "guide with knees" ride check you must use a hand to control the mount during the turn. As DM, I would allow you to drop or shift an item as a free action to meet this condition (or else one has to rule that a character with a two-handed weapon who fails this check immediately loses control of their horse). Even if you do use your free hand, nothing prevents you from using normal actions to free up the other hand for casting and then using a standard action to cast normally. Note also that the penalty for failing a "guide with knees" check (or a "fight with warhorse" or "control mount" check, for that matter) is restriction on activity (respectively need a hand, can't attack in same round as mount, spend full round rather than move action to control mount), not a "stay in saddle" check. One could ask for a "stay in saddle" check if a character fails a "guide with knees" check and cannot free up a hand, but a more consistent ruling is that the character cannot control their mount (ie, it does what it wants, not what the PC wants).